So what is happening with the A? Have you done any exposure? Found anything about OM? Revealed that you know the truth to WGF?

I am coming to think, after reading your last several posts, that you yourself are really not ready for marriage. With that being the case, what exactly are you seeking? In general? From your WGF? You want the stability of a M without the commitment. You want the perks without the risks. Referring back to the articles posted about Buyers vs Renters, it seems fairly obvious that you have actually been a Renter. It seems possible that at one point SHE was a buyer, but you didn't step up. Might have been the best decision you ever made.

I am not criticizing you, but I do wonder what you are trying to achieve in this. You have a negative view of marriage. You didn't want to commit fully to this woman before she cheated on you, so it would be incredibly foolish to contemplate it now, AFTER she's cheated, wouldn't it? You maintained a legal and financial barrier with this woman throughout your relationship because you believed and/or feared that the relationship would fail. It could be true that your barriers were a part of the cause of the failure, but that doesn't change the situation as it is. It also doesn't excuse her behavior, AT ALL.

This is kind of what I was referring to in my first posts to you. Recovery is HARD. It is going to be harder for you precisely because you are not married. Neither of you ever made a real, binding committment to each other, so there is really nothing to "get back to" or "repair". It wasn't there to begin with.

I think you've answered all your own questions about what you should do.

I would suggest you use this opportunity to learn about what makes a strong relationship, perhaps dig into yourself a bit about why you believe and do some of the things you do, and how perhaps changing those beliefs and behaviors may change the outcome of your next relationship.

Thanks Tyk,


I've dug a little on the OM, basic stuff like D.O.B, where he's living, what department he works for and marital status (single).
I know someone in law enforcement and have considered asking for a check in that area but I'm not sure it's right to compromise that person.
It is an area that I am still working on but having no way to him or his friends other than my WGF it is a little tricky.
I really want to impersonate WGF online and get the dirt direct but I don't think they have had much contact since Tuesday.
What I really want is undeniable proof that they've had sex and are not just flirting. She could easily throw moist underwear and a shower back at me to make me look crazy and then I'd have to reveal my other sources which I'd rather not do unless it was a total convincer like a text that said "Sex with you earlier was the best ever!".
She seems to have got a bit more wise and is locking her phone and clearing down her online messages.

WGF is now getting closer to me again and has been quite concerned with how I'm feeling since she found me upset the other day. Don't worry, I've read that will happen as she bounces between the providers of her needs. I've been playing it normal and we checked out a Salsa class last night because before D-Day we agreed to find us a common interest we could share.

I have not exposed or revealed yet.
I will do so! When she can't argue the evidence and make me look like the wrong doer.


I honestly was ready for marriage.
I WAS going to propose, believe me when I say that.
Had our New York trip been more relaxing I would have done it.
I have told her this and she said a year ago she would have jumped at the chance but she's not so sure now.
Believe me when I say I wanted it to be a surprise, so much so that I lamely couldn't figure out a way to get her finger size without tipping her off.

I deliberately wrote those things about the financial issues I have knowing they would paint an unpretty picture of myself but I know if you guys are going to continue helping me sort myself out I mustn't hide them.


Ultimately a happy marriage that would not end due to a falling out. I couldn't bare a divorce like my parents.


You're right, I didn't believe it would fail though. I just looked at my own parents marriage and the rising divorce rates and did my best to protect myself if it did fail. I've concluded in the past that no matter how much you believe you love someone at the beginning time goes on to make many changes.


I think I see your point now Tyk.
Would I be right in saying that everyone on this forum given the opportunity would pack their bags if they were in my situation?
Is it only those that have financial ties and children that are forced to reconcile?


I think I have.


Thanks Tyk, I will do that. I'm quite happy to address my issues and even if self preservation is a strong instinct for me and may have saved me this time but how I go about it needs to be addressed.

I know that in my case, the single most important reason for me to want to try to work things out with my W was for my daughter's sake. Yes, I love my W, but the betrayal and the aftermath has been the single hardest thing I have ever dealt with. I do NOT think it would have been possible without our daughter, because I don't think I would have been willing to work as hard. It also must be noted that my daughter is a motivating factor for my W as well. SHE may not have been willing to work as hard in recovery as she has, I would guess she wouldn't, but I don't know.

Really, no one can say for sure what they would do. We don't know either you, separately or together. All we can do is speak from our own experience. But I do think that for many, the most important factors in wanting to recover are time invested, value placed on marital vows, property and financial concerns, and children. Your situation doesn't contain ANY of those things, I think that is why most people have the opinion that you need to be at least willing to walk away.

Doesn't mean you should, but it is I think important that you recognize that the cards are kind of stacked against you. I think that if these plans aren't working for you (and in part that may be because they aren't really DESIGNED for you, they're designed to save marriages) and you don't relatively quickly have a FWGF that is fully invested that you need to be ready to walk just for your own well being. There is no reason that I can see that you should put yourself through the emotional trainwreck of infidelity for any great length of time given the situation. And that's a big part of it too: most of us have been through this, we know how hard it is and how much it hurts. Alot of the advice to bail is based on trying to save you from current and future pain.

Whatever you decide, we'll help you the best we can. Doesnt' mean you'll like it though! :P

DW, I have to agree with Tyk. Im about your age, and been involved with my wife for about 12 years. But it is our three kids that were my primary motiviation in fighting for this marriage.

In fact that is one of my wife's insecurities in our recovery. She thinks if it wasnt for the kids I would have walked away. She's probably right. I just dont know and will never know. Most of us BH's here dont think we could stay with our WW's if they got pregnant during their A. But many WW's do get pregnant and there are lots of BH's here who have chosen to attempt that recovery. No one knows what they would really do until they are in the situation. So dont put to much stock in all the folks who say they would walk away if they were you. They simply dont know.

Tyk is right when he says much of the MB plans are not designed for you. Exposure is not the same potent weapon. But if you find there is a girlfriend involved I would expose without hesitation. She deserves to know and the OM has that comming.

Although the "affair ending" part of the plans are not designed for you, the marital recovery plan would have much to offer should you try and recover your relationship. The recovery plan is about protecting the relationship, determining and meeting needs and identifying and eliminating love busters. All stuff that would be just as applicable to your situation.

You may feel like some of the posters here look down on your relationship compared with a marriage. This could be off base but as somone who grew up in the UK but spent most of my adult life in the US i sense a cultural difference here. IMHO Marriage as an institution is more valued in the US than in the UK.

Living together for at least five years seems to have become the norm in the UK. I know almost all my UK 30 something friends did this. Some posters here seem to be surprised that you have lived together for so long without taking the next step. I think that is more of a cultural thing and does not necessarily reflect a lack of underlying commitment in the relationship.

My point being that if you find yourself with an immediatly remorsfull GF, then the MB methods have a lot to offer for your recovery.

I hope it works out.

Thanks guys,

Well the fog is clearing and I'm coming to terms with the fact that separation is the best thing for me now.
I'd ideally like to reveal tonight and she can move out this weekend.
I'd really love that in your face evidence that would support me when I do a limited expose but it's been hard now she's locking her phone and not contacting OM online.


I was aware that most of the posters here would be from the US and had wondered if it would affect the advice. I would definitely agree with your cultural differences remark.
I would hypothesise that the fact that the U.S. has managed to hold on to its religious views better than the U.K. may be part of it but I am NOT inviting a debate.

Do not fear push you into accepting the current status quo.

DW, since you have made this decision relatively easily (compared to the prolonged agonizing a lot of people go through on this board), then I have no doubt that it is the right decision for you.

You have all the evidence you need, you don’t need to convince a jury just yourself. Locking the phone in itself is evidence if this is something she was not in the habit of doing previously. She will likely lie, lie and lie again but you know what has happened here. Don’t doubt yourself.

Before you leave here I would encourage you read all of the Harley materials on this site. Learn about emotional needs, Basic concepts, and love busters etc and you will be ready to create a wonderful and fulfilling relationship when you find the right woman. What I wouldn’t give to have learned this stuff five years ago!

I wish you all the best DW.

I trapped her again tonight. She's an accountant so has to work late sometimes at the end of the month so she had the perfect excuse to tell me was working late, however the last couple of months this has not really been the case.

She said she probably wouldn't finish until 19:30/20:00 so I gave her a call at 18:15 to be told she had left at 18:00.
So I just had to see what time she got home. Needless to say it wasn't in good time and when questioned she claimed to have left at 19:15.

Well I let her have her shower, again, and then sat her down opposite me at the kitchen table with a sweet cup of tea. Very English I hear you say.

I very gently coaxed it out of her and at first she played completely dumb, literally saying nothing to what must have been some of the most excruciating questions. It must have been the shock but the lack of denial itself was enough not to mention the look on her face as emotions took over.

Eventually, she caved in as I slowly revealed my cards and admitted she had feelings for the OM.

"He's a laugh, full of jokes and great conversation."

Apparently he's been driving her to the train station where they park up and chat for a while before she catches one home. She admitted they wanted to do more but wouldn't. He knows about me and she wouldn't allow it. Later on when I mentioned 'the arrive home showers' she admitted they had kissed and cuddled and that's why she did it.

She's adamant that they did not have sex and I do believe her on that.

She's truly appears sorry but then I imagine most of them do when they've been caught.
Lots of tears from her and a few from me as I struggled to get words out at times.
I asked her to pack a bag and her mum has picked her up.

At the moment I'm feeling quite comfortable about what I've done.

As a bonus I didn't have to reveal any of my sources, she bought it when I told her I had a source at her company. So now she doesn't know who to trust there.

Thanks again to all you chaps and chapesses!

"when I mentioned 'the arrive home showers' she admitted they had kissed and cuddled and that's why she did it."

I never knew any one that had to shower from kissing or cuddling. Have you mentioned that to her?

DW If you have decided to end the relationship then it really doesnt matter but there is a good chance she is lying. I could direct you to a hundred D-Day moments in the archives of this board and one of the many common themes is that the Wayward very rarely gives up the whole truth right away.

Again, if you are ending the relationship it doesnt matter. But it's not clear from your post that that is your intention. And even if it is most people in your situation experience some second thoughts over the next few days and weeks. So if you get to that point, please be aware you that there is at least a 50/50 chance she is lying about the no sex. And no matter what you do, get tested for STD's.

You sound pretty good considering what you've been through. Its probably the english gift of understatment! Take care

I think she's lying.

It took at least a week before my FWW admitted that her "good friend" at work was more than just a good friend.

I think it's difficult for some WSs to admit to a PA, and not just because they don't want the BS to know.

In any case, it doesn't matter now. You've made your decision, right?

Sorry to hear about this. I am sorry beccause I had to go thru the same thing. I will tell you a little.

My now XW told me the same thing. That she never had sex with the OM. I was sure she did but I decided to get proof she could not deny. I had a PI friend get a video camera in my room so I could catch her with him since I traveled for 1 week every month.

I knew they were sleeping together from emails and recorded calls. When I found out about what she was doing I wanted proof and then I wanted to make sure I had something to back it up to show her partents if I needed too. I had told her if she ever slept with another man I would divorce her.

Well when I confronted her she said she loved me and he was a friend. I then showed her emails and she said they were a prank she was playing she said she knew I was watching her emails.

I then told her I had phone conversations and she said that she knew I was taping her so she was just messing with me. Well I told her ok I guess I was wrong and then I told her I had one more thing.

I showed her video of my bedroom with her in it with the OM. Now she could not explain that away and then she admitted the affair but she was very angry with me. I told her that it was fine since I wanted a divorce she did not have to explain anything to me and I would file and tell her parents.

Deny, Deny, Deny that is what cheaters do. Now people that are kissing and hugging do not need to take showers. Her story does not make any sense. Just realize that she is in fact having a physical affair with this guy.

Now I am sorry that she is cheating on you. I would not wish that feeling on anyone. I don't have great advice for you but just understand what is happening and deal with the truth. Married or not it still hurts just as bad.