Well some new developments with STBXW. My attorney is gearing up for a fight, and I've dealt with enough attorney's to know that often times they're just looking to make things more difficult. So many of them forget that they work for me, not the other way around.

We were heading to court, over the house equity issue, so I e-mailed and asked if that's what she really wanted. Surprisingly she responded with a no, and asked if I would share with her my reasons for wanting a share in the equity.

I wrote her a long letter, basically saying that it wasn't about 'sticking' it to her, or anything, it was about standing up for myself, and my wants needs and desires, maybe for the first time.

I told her I respected her point of view, and mine was quite different.

I was open and honest with her, and we'll see where it gets us.

I'll keep you all posted.

- TTM

The STBX might also be lying. My XW claimed that she never asked for several things that came from her attorney, but when I asked her to have them nixed, I was met with silence.

Well STBXW sent me an e-mail saying she was looking forward to my thoughts on the equity in the house. I was honest and shared a little about my struggle on a few topics revolving around that issue. To which she replied that if I 'insisted' on getting the equity in the house, it would have to be sold. She then gave me some false numbers and a few weak reasons that she's 'couldn't' get a loan for the amount it would take to get me my fair share.

I simply replied with a few quick suggestions, and then said that I'm sure if she put her mind to it, she'd find a solution that works for us both.

I see this so clearly, this is our old 'dance' she has a problem that she doesn't want to deal with, and I 'fix' it. Well not this time, if she doesn't take the initiave to get a loan and pay me my fair share, then I will take her to court and force the sale of the home.

She's trying to 'guilt' me by saying 'think about the kids, I don't want to upset them by having to move'. Yeah right, like that's going to work on me. HA! For the argument to hold any water, we wouldn't be getting divorced! We'd be working on putting our marriage back together.

-TTM

Today is STBXW's birthday. For 16 yrs I've always made a big deal about her birthday, and we've spent the time together.

So now I'm trying to decide if I recognize it at all, or just say nothing. When it was my birthday back in April, she sent me a txt msg saying happy birthday, but I think the only reason she did that was to make sure I was picking up the kids, so she could go on a date.

What to do, what to do... I'm leaning toward doing nothing.

- TTM

I don't know your history much, but coming from someone just hopping in here, I think assisting your children in giving her something from them without giving her something from you might be one way to go, especially if they're young and don't have any money of their own.

It shows that you are providing them some way to show their love for her without using that power against her from a personal standpoint.

In other words, it makes you the better person to your kids and to yourself...

Something to think about.

Well, I just sent her an e-mail saying I hope you had a wonderful birthday.

I think that was enough. What I got back was a long e-mail about the home equity issue, again trying to manipulate me into giving in and not standing up for my share.

It's been tough, but we'll get this over with soon,

- TTM

I haven't written in a few weeks but a lot has transpired since then. W and I had a phone conversation about figuring out the equity in the marital home issue, she of course wants to keep it all, and I want my share.

I don't see it as my job to propose solutions but I am good at coming up with creative ways to resolve problems. So I decided to pick up the phone and call her. I told her I had some ideas, and that I thought we needed to talk. We ended up chatting for about an hour later that week, some about the house, some about the kids, a little about 'us' - but not much.

She then sent me the following e-mail:

If you would like to attempt to regain trust, I would appreciate it if you would honor my boundaries. Repeatedly I have let you know that I am not interested in hearing about your struggle for self discovery, your struggle with the end of our marriage or your evaluation of what normal human behavior is based on the therapy and books you have read.

This felt to me like manipulation, and demands for certain behaviors. I replied that I don't take orders well, and the way I see it boundaries are always defensive. I suggested to her that picking up a book, or going to see a therapist on her own might benefit her.

I think that really made her mad, because later that night she txt messaged me like 5 times, and e-mailed me twice. Both times throwing garbage at me and telling me what a fool she must have been for being with me. I just replied with 'I love you too' and I mirrored to her 'So you think you're a fool for loving an imperfect person?' - guess we're both guilty of that.

I'm not sure what this all means, but it feels a lot more like we're re-engaging somehow, even if it is currently in an angry way.

Thing is, in the past I've feared her anger more than anything, now I'm facing it head on, and I'm quite comfortable with it. It doesn't have the power over me it has in the past. Let's see how this plays out.

I sensed love from her still. You just can't be that upset with a person if you don't still love them. Some of the things she did are sending me a clear signal that underneath, she's feeling a lot.

Does it mean anything? I dunno, but it certainly affected me.

- TTM

What does she mean about regaining trust? On a more general note, why do you think she wants a divorce? What are the issues?

That's a great question.

A little while back she wrote me thanking me for all the hard work I've done, and then said she just cannot be with me anymore. She said she wants to find a deeper trust and connection with someone, and she just 'knows' it can't be with me.

As far as the trust thing goes, when we were talking on the phone about the house equity issue and taking care of the kids summer plans, She expressed to me that she couldn't trust what I say, because to her it seems like I say one thing and do another. Of course I believe that's because she doesn't ask me for additional information, just makes assumptions. I validated that, and said 'well I can see why it looks that way to you, but over here, I'm doing exactly what I said I was going to do'.

At the end of the conversation I asked her what I could do to help re-build the trust between us, so we could work to be friends, and that's when she sent me that e-mail reply.

Curious for thoughts...

- TTM

Let me rephrase as I am unsatisfied with your answer. Not to worry, though, sometimes it hard with this one-way communications to be interpreted as you intended.

I am guessing that the the trust issues extend farther into the marriage. Let's not talk about now in this context, let's talk about the way that it was. The background will be helpful to me and others and your perspective on the past might be different now as well.

Did she have trust issues in the marriage and if so, why?

What are the issues that are prompting her to divorce you, i.e. what are her reasons?

She wants to find a deeper trust (again the trust word) and connection with someone. Why?

That being said, as I've said before, we cannot always know the why of the other person. So take you best guess. I don't know the why of my divorce other than a mid-life crisis combined with perimenopause combined with an affair combined with some psychological issues combined with the fact that I just couldn't play her games anymore.

Hey, if I would of read "No More Mr. Nice Guy" 5-years ago, who knows what might have happened.

I caution you strongly at this point to not confuse her overtures to be friendly because she is most likely rationalizing that behavior because:

A. Women don't like people to think bad of them.
B. She wants everything she can in the divorce.

Don't be fooled by a little sugar thrown your way and think reconciliation. At all times, protect yourself and your assets. Women can be manipulative and beguiling to get what they want.

I don't fee that the pictures clear enough for you to let your guard down just yet. I predict things won't be so friendly in the very near future.

Dutch,

I'm not sure I can answer your questions, but I'll try.

During our marriage, trust was destroyed by many things. My brief affair certainly was a contributing factor. Also, I think a big part of it was my inability to tell 'my truth'. So I would agree to things quickly, and then later not do them or do something different. (Nice guy syndrome). In my attempt to 'keep the peace' and not upset her, I would agree to a lot of stupid things.

This had the adverse effect of what I thought it would, as I'm sure you know. To her, it looked like me saying one thing, and then doing another.

As for the divorce, I'm not sure I've experienced any 'sugar', we just had a phone conversation, that's all.

She left me back in February saying that she didn't feel that we were connecting, and that we hadn't in a long time. At that point I was so frustrated with her leaving over and over again, that I said I wanted a divorce, and I was done. She agreed that seemed like the only solution.

A few weeks went by and she sent me a long letter, saying that she loved me and was miserable without me. I replied saying I felt the same way and wanted to work it out.

Her reply to me was that the letter wasn't an attempt to get back together, only to 'take her power back'.

Since then it's just been an every increasing downward spiral of anger and spiteful behavior on both of our parts.

Like you I don't want to play her games anymore either. She has yet to work on talking with me directly about what's going on for her, and is unwilling to work openly on that, or even admit that she's got some work to do in that area.

I even suggested that we have a communication problem, and it would be wise to seek out help.

She said no amount of counseling would change her 'knowing' that she cannot be with me anymore.

I'm not trying to chase her, or 'win' her back, I'm happy without her drama in my life. I would like to establish a friendship of some kind with her, for the kids sake.

And who knows what the future holds... maybe at some point she'll decide to do the work to make our relationship flourish.

- TTM

TTM,

That's good enough for me. I had not realized you had an affair and I do not need any details at this point as you've explained the trust issues to my satisfaction.

I think as I've stated before is that you best posture will be to protect yourself and you assets. I wouldn't trust much as to what she says and does. She seems to be sending mixed messages. time and space may improve the situation.

One thing that I have been focusing on is doing the right thing and being a better person. Neither means giving in and it's more likely some tough-love will be involved in both. We can take the high road and leave the others to wallow. We all have a lot of improvement potential to become the best people we can.

Ok things just keep getting weirder. Last night STBXW just showed up at my house, and parked in the driveway. I had sent her a txt msg earlier in the evening saying 'can I ask you a quick question'. Hours later she had still not replied, and I got mad.

She regularly chooses not to respond to me, and this time I was angry. I sent her another txt saying that mr 'nce guy' was done and I was turning everything over to the lawyer in the am. That I don't care what happens to her anymore.

An hour later she was at my house, repeatedly asking me to talk and calling me wanting to know what was going on. She seemed really afraid, not sure of what. Either going to court, or of how strong and direct I was being in my communication with her.

I never invited her in, and repeatedly sent her txt msgs asking her to leave. She was obviously surprised, I've almost never turned down an opportunity to talk with her before.

I'm glad I did, I was so angry with her, that if I had seen her it would not have been a good scene.

I still don't know why she came over here. But she did send me an e-mail in the am, saying that she's open to talking with me more.

I told her I would like that, and I think we'll talk soon.

- TTM

Good boundary enforcement TTM. Showing up at your house unannounced is great big fat no-no. My ex used to do that during our separation phase when I had the kids or when I had family in town. It was a major disruption, especially to my son who was still 3 at the time. I told her to stop more than once, and finally I had to threaten to have my attorney file a restraining order. She was stunned. The very idea that she wasn't welcome at my home was anathema to her.

A word of warning... You might be tempted to play games. To push-pull her and totally control the when and how of where and when to talk. This is her level. Don't stoop to it. Seek the win/win on how you guys communicate.

First of all, she has passive-aggressive written all over her. I imagine that she felt she could manipulate you in person. You were good to resist talking to her live. Be sure to define for her that such behavior and actions are unacceptable and that there will be consequences for violating them, such as calling the cops and filing for a RO.

You are being strong but need to work on your anger a bit. I know this is difficult as I had quite a bit of anger during the same period. As Dr. Seabird says, "Like a reed in the wind."

Lower your expectations about anything concerning the STBXW. She has her own agenda and your best interests are not on it. You're conducting a form of war on a small scale. Do not give into the enemy. Do not accept the enemy's disinformation. Define your own agenda and stick to it.

Well STBXW called the following evening, and we ended up talking for and hour and 1/2. It was good, some about 'us' and some about the things we need to resolve for the divorce. Somehow I think we both ended the conversation feeling better about the other.

She called me 2 times the next day, just to ask me stuff about the kids, but I see this as improvement, up to this point there's been no communication at all, other than an e-mail or txt msg.

I was friendly but firm in our phone conversation with her, I told her I was not going to give on on the home equity issue, and said we'd have to resolve it, or take it to court if we couldn't.

I think all in all, we both just want this process finished, I get the feeling we may yet be able to be friends, possibly more after we're divorced.

It may sounds weird, but in a way, I think we have to get divorced, if we're ever going to have a good relationship again.

I'm not holding my breath, just making an observation.


Keep you all posted,

- TTM

Hello everyone, I could use some feedback on this...

Saturday is our son's B-Day, I have plans with my family to have a small party and cake with him. I had planned on dropping him off to STBXW around dinner time. This am, she sent me the following e-mail...

I am unsure if it would be a good idea for us all to have dinner and cake together??? What are your thoughts about this?

Since we had our 'chat' about a week ago, I met a woman I really liked, and ended up having her around last weekend, and my DD had a chance to meet her. At first it was a little awkward for DD, but the two of them warmed up to each other, and I dare say they actually seemed to like each other a bit.

Now all of a sudden STBXW is asking me to have dinner with her and our son?

I don't want to read into this, but it almost seems like when the STBXW finds out I'm with another woman, she wants to be with me again? This is exactly what happened last year, and at almost the same time frame. We were apart 7 months then, and I met someone else, next thing you know she was back again.

It's been since January that we've been apart, and again I met someone, and again, she's asking to have dinner together?

Can anyone shed some light on this?

BTW, the equity in the house issue still isn't settled, but we did discuss it at length last week. It seemed like we were able to do that with respect for each other. No yelling, screaming ect..

Open for thoughts...

- TTM

Decline and stick to your plans, TTM.

I don't undertand your choice to have any other women around your kids until you've been dating for more than six months. It's really rough on kids to do this, 'k?

Keep your dating and your kids time separate and introduce them slowly...uh, like Seabird. Sort of.

Doesn't matter what she means...you don't want to DJ anyone or anything...that's not your bag anymore. Don't go there.

Because of your wife's choices, your son won't get a whole, intact family...and I'm positive he wouldn't want one just one or two days of the year, anyway. Routines help...I vote for you to stick to your plans of having his Bday with you, your way, and leaving room for her to have her with him, her way.

LA

Who cares??? Like LA said, stick with your plan. Stop reacting to her and do what you need to do. And don't do things (like make your other women apparent and obvious) that make her react either.

Yeah! Uh... Hmmm??? You have a thought to share with me LA? I don't want to hijack TTM's thread, but I'd be happy get your perspective if you care to share it with me in my thread.

Nope, Seabird...just thought I'd name drop and then you'd drop in.

ROFL

Not.

I was worried about name dropping, hence my "uhm"...

Heehee.

I think you rock. And TTM, I have the link to your old thread, btw, in the new board format...thought I could share it so others can see how far you've come...

and recognize when you want to reach back from habit.

That's what I take your post's question to really be.

Just so you know you're right here.

LA