The short end of the discussion with the BIL & SIL is that they are totally supportive of us together. BIL, my husband’s brother, was quite shocked and at a lost for a little while but came down to saying that he cares for us and both and wants us to be happy. He thinks we are happier together than apart and it sounds that we (my husband and I) have made huge strides in our relationship and have done things on both of our ends to ensure that this would never happen again.

I was very down the night we talked to them and the next day. I was just focusing on the negative reactions, which I knew would be there, and failed to see the positive out comings from them. After a little time I was able to look back and see that what BIL & SIL had to say was very positive for our marriage and I just had to hope that husband was able to see the positives too.

SIL and I went for a quick bite last Monday and talked. It was probably equal time on my husband’s and mine relationship and her’s with BIL. They have hit a rough spot in their marriage and it is oddly similar the needs that are not being met (I guess, they are brothers). I hope to be able to help them with what I’ve learned. I know my BIL is not open to that at all from me right now – not only because it is coming from me but because he doesn’t think his marriage is in as much trouble as my SIL does. SIL is out of a town for work for a few days and then we are all going to see the last brother’s family for the 4th of July weekend. SIL and I should be able to talk quite a bit (we are morning gals and everyone else enjoys the sleeping in).

It has been good with my husband. We discussed what we wanted for our future and he brought up how uncomfortable he is with adopting a child and just can’t get excited about it. So no baby that way for us. Maybe I can get lucky like another poster shared recently but I’m not banking on it. When it comes down to it, I would rather be with my husband without kids than with anyone else with kids. We just need to make sure we make plans for a different type of adventure then in our future. I’m sure our niece and nephew will enjoy being spoiled rotten by us. 

Now I’m just waiting for the love deposits to work their magic. I see happiness in my husband again. The love is sure to follow. He is going to listen to Fall in Love, Stay in Love and then go from there on what other books would be good. I know that there will be those that say SAA and I have the book, have read it and he knows about it but right now he is ready to move forward and thinks such a book would trigger too much. I’ve told him it is about restoring a marriage…so for now I will do what I’ve learned from SAA. I think the other parts can be picked up for Fall in Love and HNHN, which I would like him to read.

Sounds good! Keep up the good work.

You have no idea how liberating it is to know that BIL & SIL totally support us and want us to be happy together. My husband feels like the weight is lifted now that he is not caring a secret around. It's nice to talk of our future and not have a thought that we don't have a future together.

It is also nice to feel like we are able to help them in their marriage too. There has been tension between them, BIL down plays it which upsets SIL, but husband and I agree that BIL down plays because he is probably scared, after hearing about us, that SIL will make a bad, bad decision/choice too. I have no concern of that and SIL and I have been talking often on how each of our relationships are going.

SIL has been telling me that BIL will make comments "when you leave me"...at the same time BIL does not take SIL seriously when she says that he is no longer affectionate or has conversations with her. I've told her about HSHN and Fall in Love so we'll see if they would like to borrow or get on their own. I really wished there was a good way for me to approach BIL to say 'look, SIL will not be as stupid and selfish as I was but if things don't change she will leave you.' Right now my husband doesn't want to discuss with BIL but I guess I feel it would be more powerful coming from him.

I know that my husband and I will have our moments but it feels truely great again. He agrees. We even had a family vacation with his parents, both his brothers and their wifes and our neice and nephew - the kicker - no strain at all and there was only one moment in five days where we looked/sounded like the Griswold's.

I'm thinking that instead of, or at least coupled with, the pre-marriage counseling sessions that you must do before marriage you should be required to read some of the Harley books and know about this website.

My husband and I were talking last night about how it really seems true that you are never given more than you can handle at a time...

Yesterday I found out the disturbing/shocking things about my family.

1. My 14 cousin/god-daughter (GD14) has been pulling out her hair for 8 months now. My aunt/god-mother (GM) is sick with worry. GM & her husband have GD14 in counseling but the IC says that it is just a bad habit.

Really, who has heard of such a thing, a habit of pulling out your hair until you have very noticable bald spots (my family lives 7 hours away).

2. One of my uncles drank too much and harmed another person. He has a drinking problem and had gone months without a drink. He feels guilt ridden (right fully so) for the harm caused (thankfully no one was seriously injured) and did not try to get the charges reduced. He feels 3 years in prison is the least he can do.

I can't say I blame him in wanting to feel like he is properly punished, just wonder what good 3 years will do him if he doesn't go through AA or some other sobriety program. Especially thinking about his kids and wife. But at least I can appreciate him taking resposibility for the harm he did cause.

3. My Grandpa was diagnosed with cancer. I don't know any specifics because this was the last piece my GM told me yesterday.

My GM is very obviously stressed out not only because of her DD but her dad (my Grandpa) and her brother. My GM has always been in good health and she was in the hospital last week due to high blood pressure. Wonder what stress she is feeling...

My GM and I have been trying to connect via phone for many weeks now. My husband and I were talking about how it didn't happen until things were solid with us...even more the case when I recall that one night one my GM called I was at book club. I left the room to talk to her but she didn't open up. It was before my husband and I were solid again.

Anyway, I know there is nothing I can do regarind my uncle. This is his to bear and I can only offer support to his family (who apparantly is upset that my GM to the rest of the family...seriously, things like that get out and it is better to hear from family than on the street).

My Grandpa doesn't want me to know about his cancer so I can only be a good granddaughter for now and wait for him to be open to me.

I can try to help my GM with her stress and see if my GD will open up to me on what is going on with her. I feel helpless here.

My husband told me to drive there this weekend, that we can have a weekend apart. I'm trying to get GM & GD to come up here...to remove them from the stressful area for a little R&R for a few days.

I asked my hubby, when did my family become so bad. He was kind enough to tell me he loves me, he loves my family and sometimes we are given things to make us stronger in the end or to learn so we can help others. He then said that he sees he needs to make sure he talks with his brother to help him see that he is not meeting SIL EN.

More often than not I am AMAZED by my husband. He loves despite the flaws.

JLR,


I know 2 people very close to me that have this disease. It is a lot more than just a bad habit. It is called Trichotillomania.

You can read more about it at wiki at:

Trichotillomania

Sorry your having such a difficult time with your family. Hope things get better soon.

Want2Stay

Thank you. I knew it had a name that started with a T but I couldn't remember. Thank you for the link. It helped me find out more.

My GD is suppose to be keeping a journal but my GM took a look at the journal and told me GD is not keeping track.

My family lives in a small town. While I'm sure the IC is useful he/she doesn't have the training for this. I'm hoping to get them up here and see about getting my GD an appointment here (I'm in the "big city") with someone that specializes.


Have these people found a way to overcome the disease? From the little I know about it I thought it was stress/anxiety related. The IC says that my GD is not depressed or stressed out...then again the IC is saying it is just a bad habit.

The IC also recommended some anti-depressants (even though he/she also said GD was not depressed) to curb the habit. My family is not against meds but my GM is concerned because they are known for sucidial tendancies in teenagers...

If you could have heard my GM yesterday...I just wanted to reach right thru the phone and give her a hug.

Hey jlr!

OK, I will step out on a limb and "expose" myself! I have the disease and it has haunted me since before I can even remember. My first recollection of it as a child was actually from the "consequence" side of it. I remember being asked by other children why I had bald spots. Then when I was five my mother took me and had my hair cut very short and permed. I hated that God-forsaken short, curly hair, but my mother didn't know what else to do. I remember when my sister (who was 12 years older than me) came home from college, she looked at me and I cried all over again and said "Sissy, I look like a BIRD!!" She still says it was adorable, but *I* HATED it! LOL!

Over the next few years, I managed to prevent the bald spots. I was blessed with very thick, naturally curly hair and by moving around where I would "twist" (what I called it, because I don't sit and just pull whole pieces out at once like some of the most severe cases) I was able to avoid the bald spots and really noone ever would have known again unless they actually lived with me and saw me doing it. So, I would tell people I became close with, and noone else.

My father TORTURED me about this for years. I actually twist a piece of hair and play with it before pulling it out, so for me it's more about that, as I said, than pulling large portions out at a time. There are people who can wake up in the night and pull themselves bald by morning! *SCARY* So, he could hear me twisting and would literally degrade me endlessly about how "only crazy/stupid people would do that" and so on...

Then, when I was 6-months pregnant with my 7-yr-old I was watching Dateline and saw a story intro where it showed bald people and people who had to wear wigs, etc...they said "Look like cancer survivors? Well, you are wrong...they are afflicted by the incurable hair-pulling diease call Trichotillomania!" (ps-why did they have to name it something so STUPID!!)

I sat in utter disbelief as I watched the story and just a few minutes later had tears running down my cheeks. You mean I'm not a FREAK! I thought. You mean I really cannot control it?? (I could type forever how many times I've tried to quit) You mean I actually inherited it (it is genetic) from probably the same SOB that TORTURED me about it my whole life??!!! (my dad always pulled at his eyebrows) I was relieved and angry and uplifted and depressed...all of the things you would imagine after living with such a thing for 26 years and not knowing what caused it and why I couldn't stop!

Over 5 million people suffer from varying degrees of this evil disease. I couldn't believe it!

Can you imagine that I had never even told my doctor(s) about it my whole life? My parents never looked to see if there was something to it (other than me being high strung). Do you know they STILL scoff at me when I try to educate them on the facts?

My YDS has inherited the disease from me...something I have cried about many times, even though I could have done nothing to stop it. At 18 months he pulled (twisted-just like me!) bald spots in the back of his beautiful head of baby hair.

**and in the back of my mind I was almost vindicated through my sorrow for him--I finally KNEW, even though they have done stories on it and there is a website and a world-wide support group, etc...I finally KNEW that I really couldn't help it!!**

How awful do you think THAT made me feel! But, he is a boy and his hair is short now-- all is well. Last secret I will let you in on--he has a barbie that he takes to bed at night to twist so that he doesn't pull on mine!

Being a girl makes things more difficult, obviously, but I can still keep my hair short enough that I cannot twist it...and because it is thick, it still looks rather long. The layers have be too short for me to twist, though, or I STILL do it. But, here's the thing--I have kept it short for 2-3 YEARS to break the habit in the past, and would think--OK, I haven't twisted for 3 years, I should be able to grow it long again! But, honest to God, the moment it was long enough to get it around my fingers again, it was back to the races. I have given up now and have a FANTASTIC stylist that keeps it looking great with medium-length/short layered hair cuts. And she cuts several people's hair that pull as well!

Here is the point of this long-a$$ post! LOL!

THERE IS NOTHING THAT YOU CAN DO ABOUT IT! Do NOT NOT NOTput that child on ADs for this--it will NOT help!! There is no cure, there is no treatment. If anyone tells you to there is treatment, and it's drugs, or that it is just a nervous habit...give them the website and tell them to go educate themsleves for God's sake!! Especially a therapist!! Grrrrrrrrr...makes me ANGRY!

DO NOT MAKE HER FEEL LIKE SHE IS CRAZY!
CUT HER HAIR SHORTER SO SHE CANNOT PULL IT!
READ THE WEBSITE!
AND FOR GOODNESS SAKES QUIT FREAKING OUT ABOUT IT!!

It IS just hair, after all!

Thank you for your honesty.

After seeing the correct term for the hair pulling I did some more internet research. I saw more than once of cutting the hair short and wasn't sure if this was some ancient treatment similiar to where drs. would bleed out a patient to cure them of illness...I think part of me was concerned about my GD 14 YO vanity...or maybe it was my vanity for her.

I also read that it could be an indication of OCD which knowing my GD, that could make some sense too. Knowing different things now, there are signs...and really I felt much more comfortable after learning more yesterday (thank you Want2Stay!).

From all the stress my GM is feeling I was left very confused. The conversation bounced around quite a bit and it was a lot of new info coming at me...plus the added stress of knowing my sweet, sweet GM was so very concerned and it was affecting her health.

I spoke with my GM this morning and just talked briefly about GD with her (she was at work and uncomfortable talking there). I know that my GM is worried that there is something seriously wrong with her daughter...more along the lines that something terrible happened to her and the hair pulling is stress related.

I give zero credence to what their current psychologist is telling them. I don't buy that it is a bad habit either and I know my GM doesn't buy it...but sometimes when "experts" say something we question what our gut is telling us. This is one of the reasons I'm calling daily (and will continue to do so) until GM tells me when she & GD are coming to visit. I live in a metro area while they are very rural and a city is HOURS away. I can then get appointments with an IC that deals with this on a regular basis and can educate both GM & GD...and I can get us some spa treatments or something to help reduce GM stress if even for a few days.

Genetics: I hadn't come across that in my brief searching yesterday. I'll need to search Dateline's website and see about ordering that episode. My GM has a bald spot in the back of her head but it is from a car accident years ago and the resulting skin graph that doesn't allow hair to grow there now. To my knowledge GM husband doesn't pull out his hair.

Oh, back to spa treatments, my GD has thick cury hair too (runs in the family) and part of my weekend package was going to entail her getting a new do. Of course how well this would go over with a 14 YO...I'm sure I would not be her favorite person for a little while but better me than her Mom. My GD is highly gifted and I bet she would realize sooner rather than later that it was done with love and care. Just getting her to buy-in before hand might cause some AO from her to me.

AD's - after the research I was going to see where my GM was leaning on this one. I know she was scared at this prospect but my opinion was going to be other avenues first. If it is that GD has OCD then we revisit. I know that ADs are also sometimes prescribed to curb those urges...I like to try natural remedies first so I would also see if they would come again to talk with a more homepathic expert.

Again, thank you for taking the time to respond and sharing so much. If you don't mind, I would like to share what your wrote with my GM.

WOW. What a lot of interesting things you learn on this site. My niece in law has this, and it has worried her parents for a long time. She even pulls out her eyebrows and eyelashes. She is 17 and they have tried to get her to see a doctor, but she refuses.

She too, is very gifted. What a relief to read Res's story.

I will talk to her my SIL.

It may really help her to know she is not alone...if you or anyone else in the group would like to email me, send it to stillstaying@gmail.com. I would be happy to talk with any of you!

BTW, I guess I should have mentioned that Want2Stay is my hubby and our son and I were the "close" people to which he was referring. He wasn't sure about coming right out and saying it was me since it is such a personal issue, but he directed me to this thread in case I got the nerve up to post this story! LOL!

Has she had any recent traumatic experiences that would indicate severe trauma? From everything I have read in the past, the "experts" INSISTED that this is NOT a nervous habit of any kind (like biting your nails, or even something more sinister like cutting). This is disease and it is thought to be hereditary...that was the only link they could find between the people who pull their hair.

So, the IC thing kinda bothers me, I'll be honest, although if there is something specific she is being treated for-by all means! But if she is being dragged to a therapist for a disease that has no cure as if something is wrong with her for doing it...well, that's where things get a little upsetting for me! Seems like a nice, shorter hair cut, some general education on the topic and a little less shock and horror may be a much better approach.

I hope you get a chance to intervene face to face so you can help these poor people out!

Hey B! Glad I could help!

Gifted how?...question is to both of you, actually!

I have been a singer from a very young age, and many have called me gifted/prodogy/etc...although I don't like to say those things, cuz I SWEAR I am not egotistical about it! Others here have heard me sing, so maybe they can back me up on that-LOL! I know American Idol has made people a little gun-shy to the "I can sing!" phenomenon...

So, I ask because if the "gift" is a musical one, well...we just may be onto something!

And thanks for your honesty, Res. Actually this is going to give you goose bumps. She is an accomplished singer, and pianist. She started playing the piano at 3, just started plunking away, and didn't even read music. She started composing her own songs when she was 10.

And the music runs all through the family. Her grandparents were both musicians, and so is her mother. Her dad has a beautiful voice and sings in a band.

She gets straight A's, is in drama, debate, sews costumes for Renaissance re-enactments. Just a very gifted girl.

RE: Gifted - well when I said that I was thinking book/school smarts but after hearing the question I will admit that my GD has always been selected for all-state chorus...take it for what that is worth.

Do you think we can offer our informal study up for some research?

I'm trying to connect with my GM and see how the discussion with GD went last night but they went boating with some friends tonight. She knows I'll be checking in daily until I'm satisified...

LaLa: I knew from reading here that Want2Stay is your hubby...I put two and two together...who says I can't do math (LOL - double LOL when you take into account that I am a CPA.)

Yes, a study.

By the way, I did talk to my SIL and told her what I learned here. She was relieved and is going to look into it.

So good to hear - that it helped your SIL.

It's nice to know that you're not in something alone. I'm betting that my GM will feel the same...now to just make sure that we connect in a more timely manner.

Just because when it rains, it pours...met with a close girl friend this morning because she had some important news to share.

Thought it was going to be her engagement.

Turns out it was confirmed yesterday that she has breast cancer.

Really now, we are too young and too flat ( ) for breast cancer.

Then again she always sees the positive...she plans on getting the size she was always meant for afterwards.

My hubby reaction: This is terrible to say but I'm so releaved its not you.

Hubby 2nd reaction: I'm going to h$%l for saying that out loud...we better take her wine and make it expensive.

I so LOVE having him in my life.

So sorry for your friend. Your H sounds nice.

Cat - My H is nice. Thanks for noticing. I'm truely lucky, on many levels.

This past weekend we had what could have been a trying time for us. We are very active people and our weekends book up rather quickly with different activities (together, with friends and/or family). On Wednesday my hubby talked about making sure that we have one day a month that is completely schedule free for just the two of us.

Great idea!

Then, just a day after telling him what day it would work the best in our schedule for August he said yes to a golf tournament that I was not asked to partake in.

We talked how him just saying yes hurt my feelings. My H got very upset and said that here we go, I need to get permission to do anything...this has been a sore spot with us before.

I mentioned that this was not something to get angry about and tried to explain that its not about permission. Its about making sure we have time together and how it hurts my feelings if he just makes plans. I must have said it a little more eloquently than that because after a few minutes of silence he leaned over, said he was sorry for not thinking of us and gave me a quick kiss.

I think about how this use to go down...I would raise my voice right back at him and we would be mad all night and into the next day. It's nice when we both get it, how acting better towards each other makes life all that more pleasant.

Wow. This bears repeating (good stuff):