2 angles to see:

1. If I contest the divorce then I'm trying to control and manipulate the situation and I haven't changed by not listening to her feelings and wants.

2. If i don't contest it then it can be viewed as not wanting to fight for the marriage and I haven't changed.

In my experience, most of the confusing dilemmas I get into is when I check the angles.

Angles are for the outside looking in...not checking my choices against my own code.

I cannot control how others view my choices...they have their own filters. You know this.

Only thing I can control is where my choices come from...and so far, I've gotten them down to two places...

Am I choosing from my code of honesty and respect (in your case, do I want this divorce, believe it is right, or not)...

or am I again in the perspective of choosing based on possible response (possible perception, perspective)?

One betrays me every single time...

The other doesn't.

The NC schedule, like every other day (if I recall correctly) sounds to me like rebellion for you...makes it more difficult to comply with, if you didn't agree with it in the first place.

Check your code for your choices...not her reactions. Hold yourself to what you agreed to...and re-negotiate when you betrayed yourself by agreeing when you really didn't agree with it.

The way I pulled my sticky fingers off of outcomes in my marriage was to see the marriage as three parts...myself, my DH and The Marriage. When I struggled with agreeing with my partner, I checked to see if it would honor my marriage or not. I learned I could act respectfully for The Marriage when my emotions came nowhere close to wanting to act respectfully of my partner.

Changes the question for possible response-base...is NC in this way healthy for The Marriage right now?

LA

For me it wasn't about whether I agree or disagree. I hate not being able to talk to her because I love her so much. It tears me apart even more. I have recently come to realize though that contact everyday has hurt our marriage because I want so bad to work out the issues that it causes me to want to talk about it all day long and there is never anytime left for us to have happy time which this desperately needs right now. I know we can have that happy time but I haven't shown her that lately because I'm so tore up about the current situation and trying to make it right. In that manner it's good for me, her and our marriage to have NC days where we can both just get away from it so we can get back to being us again which is what brought us together in the first place.

We do need to start our relationship from scratch but it causes me mixed emtions because she is and I feel will compare everything to the past. I guess thats where it comes in that I can control the present and the future as far as I'm concerned and if she does still love me then she will see it needs a fair opportunity to succeed. That opportunity is here.



So my answer would be yes I believe it to be healthy for me, her and our marriage based on current conditions and actions and based on the fact that thru this I can show her I really do care about her feelings, wants and needs.

I have faith and belief that she loves me. I also have faith and belief in the changes that I'm making are good and the actions I'm taking will make sure it's permanent. Until such time that she no longer wants to see or talk to me I will have faith and belief that these things will turn us around and bring us back together.

Would you consider you cannot show her you really care about her feelings, wants and needs?

She can see what you are showing her or not. Choice.

However...you can act from your commitment to acknowledging and knowing her wants, feelings and needs...anyway?

Intent matters.

Sounds to me like you believe your obsession (the not help yourself part of constantly thinking and talking about it) should be shared with her? It's yours. How about you understanding the whole of it...where sharing is an act of intimacy you do because you are intimate...not based on her reaction...and how you've narrowed it down to a tunnel...playing together is also an act of intimacy...having fun and experiencing new environments together is intimacy...doesn't mean she'll experience them as you do...which is the point.

Are you going to Al-Anon meetings?

LA

I have considered that yes. Actions are the only way I can show it though and she can choose to see it or not to see it. If she chooses to then there is hope, if she chooses not to then there is no hope. At least not right now. The block is she doesn't believe it will stay that way so i have to show it is something I want and will do permanently.



I believe I'am acting on that. I have continued to add to what she asked me to think about: my actions and how I think it might have made her feel. She just asked me to think about it which I have done and thought deep by listing them out and having them on file to review. My intent is to make this permanent and I feel I'm on the way to accomplishing that. Whether she chooses to see that or not will make the difference in our relationship/marriage. I can't force her to see it all I can do is make the changes permanent and hope she does.


I have shared it with her yes. I need to change that part of me for the better of me, us and her.

I'm not going to Al-non no. Soon there will be too much going on in my life because I will need to find a second job to keep the bills afloat. That should occupy more of my time and keep me sane.

Personally, I do not see that the NC does any good for the M. This is in direct contradiction to the 15 hours a week at the recommendation of Dr Harley for couples to spend together.

That being said, you have commited to NC, so you must abide by it for now. I would start to negotiate away from the NC by making her want to be with you more (Plan A)

Obsessing is your problem. As much as you want, you can not change overnight, she can not forget overnight. I would limit my "relationship" talks to once per week. I would do the typical Plan A items and make it fun for her/family. Stop worrying over things you can not control (her feelings and desires for you).

If you do not stop that, I am afraid you will drive her and yourself crazy.

In addition, I would stop the D dead in it's tracks and stand for my marriage (if this is what you want). Your W does not want a wuss who would sell out his M for her desires...... Tell her it is not about control, it is about the sanctity of your M, and she will respect you in the long run. Be the ROCK.

Grind,

Plan A wouldn't have been able to work for us from the moment I even got a clue any of this was going on. She filed for divorce weeks before I knew and the only reason I found out when I did was because I asked. Other then that I don't know what was on her schedule and I'm sure I'll never really know. As far as I know she could have been planning to move everything out and leave the papers on the table for me to find without so much as a word to me.


Thanks for the help everyone. I have to look at actual facts now which is what I should have been doing all along instead of hoping my efforts would start changing the situation to be more positive from her but it just keeps getting more negative. My many positive efforts so far have all been taken away because of 1 negative. I have made so many positive things happen and keep happening and all she does is get further away and now has cancelled 3 or 4 of the last 5 sessions. The divorce is just over a week away so there's no possible way I can show great improvement enough for her to change that. All I can do is handle my own and do what I have to to keep my sanity.

Fact is I can't stop her from divorcing me legally. The only thing I MIGHT be able to do is delay it which would bury me even more financially then I already will be and just make everything worse to the point she doesn't even want to have sessions or counseling let alone talk to me.

I'll handle my own affairs from here on out and she can do whatever she feels she needs to. I can't make her want to be with me if she already has her mind made up not to. All I can do is improve myself for the better of myself and my future.

Her facts:
She's filed for divorce
She's moved out and does not want me knowing where she lives (2 1/2 months ago)
She's said she is going thru with the divorce
She's cancelled our sessions lately
She hasn't said she loves me in a week now
She's maintained shes not in love with me
Every time I contact her even on contact days she gets irritaded (I haven't on NC days now)
She hasn't wanted to spend quality time away from all this in over a month
She said no more sex a month ago
She won't kiss or hug me now
Each week she gets further away from me
She won't take the time to look at the papers I gave her showing my positive steps and go over them with me so I can see if I'm on the right track or not or if it's even helping (for all I know she just throws them away and deletes my poems and cards without even looking at them)
She has shown nothing positive at all lately (over a month from what I can remember) that tells me things are improving
She's not involved in any positive efforts to improve the marriage now let alone our relationship and hasn't been

I wish I could add some positive's to this list but I really can't think of any right now.

My facts:
I could list a whole bunch of positive's here but they do not matter (her words) because of the 1 negative which for the past week I have taken that away also and sent her information that states I can actually understand it and her feelings on it now (another positive from me that got no response).

Facts are facts.

ezb,

I'm so sorry it's come to this. On the other hand, I'm happy that you're working on bettering yourself in spite of it all. You will benefit from working on you and so will anyone with whom you share a relationship in the future (be it your wife or someone you find later on in life).

Are you sure she did not/is not have/ing an affair?

Bring,

Thank you. It's time for reality living for me and I wish I would have started the book I'm reading now a lot sooner.


Grind,

I don't know what to believe to be totally honest with you. I do know one thing and that is a couple weeks before she got really worse towards me she did meet someone. I think that did have something to do with the fact that she A. moved out (she called him right after she walked out the door and it was her first call) and B. has not wanted to see the positive change in me.


It's really hard actually. We had something so beautiful and special and we both know that. There were a lot of things that slowly changed that and even though I have taken the blame on my shoulders I know there was more involved to it then that and i've been learning that with the books I have read.

It makes it even harder when you know that that something beautiful and special can be again but yet even better because of the knowledge now known and learned.

Just remember everyone:

There are no conditions to love but there are conditions to your happiness. These can be better understood using the 5 love languages and loving solutions.

Where do I find the 5 love languages and loving solutions?

Thanks

They are both very good books by Gary Chapman. They can help save a troubled marriage or enhance a marriage period. There are also some very good books by Dr. Harley. Hopefully they can help you save your marriage if thatss the case, as far as I know it's too late for me but I'll keep reading and learning and if my WAW doesn't see my change or want it then I'll make some lady very happy someday.

Cat,


I know what you mean and I'm not saying anything wrong here or being defensive.

I do see it this way though:

Baggage: For 2 people that really never loved to begin with (I know is not us)

Resolved Issues: For 2 people that once shared a special bond and love and when the issues that arrived came to full light they worked together to resolve them and make the bond and love even stronger then it was before (I firmly believe at this point in time is us). I know this contradicts my earlier facts sheet but this is my feeling, I'll find out in a week if my feelings are wrong.

You just got through explaining why you think she is NOT working on your marriage. This makes no sense. Is she trying to get back with you or not?

I have no idea what she plans on doing or not doing. I keep hoping this is a bad dream (which I know I shouldn't do).

What I should have typed there was:

(I firmly believe at this point in time COUlD BE us).

Oh, that makes more sense.

When I talked about baggage, I meant it in terms of the longer you're with someone, the more experiences you build up with that person, some good, some bad. But if you start getting to the point where it's no longer 'we' but rather 'him' and 'me', the bad experiences may start keeping her from investing in time with you. Like 'Why bother telling him my ideas for the back yard? He always shoots down my ideas; I'll just keep it to myself, and let him do it the way he wants to' - building up resentment based on possibly unfounded expectations of what you may or may not do to her, based on past experience.

That's what I mean by baggage. Your past colors your current actions.

I'm still learning the little quirks of things I type and say. Pretty hard to do when you've only had 3 months of a topsy turvy roller coaster ride you never knew you were even getting on. I guess thats the saddest part about it but I'll be darned if it ever happens to me again. And thats a sad part about it too,, me knowing and her not being able to believe. Shes even read my posts and said shes not sure she can believe them.

I just took baggage as a negative word was all. Or at least it gave me negative emotions but were my actions negative in my reply cat? Just asking to see how far I have come so far.

You hit the back yard right. I have opened up my mind a lot on things like that. I never did it with everything though. The flowers outside were fine I only wanted to plant a couple of the ones I liked. She painted the bathroom 2 or 3 times (easy ladies shes the painter lol) which every time she did I told her it looked good. I really liked it when she blotted it, it made it look bigger but at time she was too over critical of herself (might have been partly what I did or wholely who knows). She always knew how to stack the dishwasher better then me. Shes been a lovely and wonderful wife. I wish she could see what a difference all this has made in me and how wonderful our intimacy would be and would grow now.

Here's a letter i wrote and got no response Insights?

Good morning hun. I hope you slept well and enjoyed the nice night last night.

I would like to convey a few thoughts to you that i have come to realize over the past 3 months. One would be the deep heart felt love I have for you. I never knew I could love someone this much and that it would effect me this much to lose you. I offer no excuses for the things I have done to bring it to this point. I think we both know there is a lot of things in me that need to change and stay that way. I want to thank you for still allowing me a chance to work on saving this relationship and for your help in counseling and our sessions. In just this short time I have learned just how much I really love you. I'm working on these changes and seeing how it should be and implementing things for just that reason, my love for you, and to help in someday healing the past of the hurt I caused you. I want to thank you for this separation because I believe you were right in the fact that I would never have taken these steps and
the ones I will take in the future to correct things had you not moved out and gone to this extreme. I do think the divorce papers did wake me up though and I will forever hate the fact that I did not do what I wanted which was to contest the divorce and show you I didn't and don't want it. I was scared and confused and hurt but in no way em I giving excuses. I hope I have shown you, other then the big LB, that I have wanted and that I'am fighting to save this. I will respect that you feel you need to divorce me even though I know it hurts you either way. I know it must hurt you also very deeply and I'm sorry for that. I wish there could be some other way at this point in time to allow more time for improvements in me and for more knowledge to be gained and positive actions on my part to be shown. If there is such a possible way then please tell me and it will be done no questions will be asked (other then to listen, repeat and verify) or compromises
proposed by me.

I want to apologize to you sincerely for my actions that have led us to this. I allowed the lifestyle and my controlling selfish monster to consume me and to cut our bond and our marriage apart. I know there were many other factors, some petty and small and some big, that have played a part in all of it but it was my lack of respect for your feelings and my lack of knowledge, communication and peace of my true inner self that have turned me into someone I never wanted or meant to be. I know at this point forgiveness is not possible so I will not ask or expect that from you. I cannot really ask for anything at this point but I hope you will keep in mind the email you sent me in early Feb. where you said you know that you believe I want to be in this marriage. I do want to and I know in my heart and my soul I can give you the love you need and deserve. I know you don't believe in that right now and I don't expect
you to but I will work to show you that. I will work to show you how much you really do mean to me and how much i want to make you happy once again. ________________________________