pomdbd3,

Here is something I want you to try.

"No."

When you get an angry response back. Ignore it. Plan B the XWS. Quit caring about what she wants and trying to bend over backwards to accomodate or explain yourself to her. I know you want to co-parent. But, she doesn't. She wants FULL control. You can't co-parent with someone who is unwilling to, so stop trying. She is just trying to manipulate you and push your buttons. Your responses are only fueling her entitlement. Just ignore her. You take your days, she takes hers, and you do what you can to fight for more time and control using the legal system. Your XWW is garbage and cannot be dealt with, so stop trying to deal with her. Ignore her, and let your blood pressure drop to normal levels.

Thanks for the inputs everyone.

On a positive note:

I'm meeting up with Sally (PLI:Not her real name. Read my previous posts for reference) and her roomate in our downtown on Saturday night. She invited me to join her after they had dinner and asked me to bring the other guy from our group to join them.

My source (mutual friend) says that she enjoys spending time with me but wants to do so in groups for now to keep things "safe" and that the payoff will come if I "hang in there" while she works through her aftershocks of D.

Of course, with the MB knowledge of lovebanks, I wish to be there to give a steady amount of positive deposits and help build that up.

I hope that in doing so she'll one day look at me, after I've had the workout start showing (I'm leaving for the gym in a minute) and she'll take notice. Word has it that she likes me too, but just isn't ready for anything.

Well, really, neither am I because of the chaos going on with my legal stuff right now. That should settle at the end of July, hopefully.

There is a problem that I can't really go out much due to money. I have zero disposable income right now. My checking account was down to $150 yesterday, and that's after getting some money out of a loan to help cover bills. That loan is maxed. My credit cards are maxed.

I have a negative income.

****sigh****

Well, I guess I luckily live someplace that has a lot of free activities to do (museums and monuments).

It encourages creativity too.

Sounds like my bank account, Papa, except I have less, and another week to go 'fore payday. Meh, it's okay. I did put aside a tad of money for an outting with my girlfriends downtown, I'll just have to pinch the pennies.

About the birthday thingy. If it is your day, are you really under any obligation to SHARE it at all? I would just say no, and stay away from your exWW. This is business now. You two are divorced. Time between kids gets split, such is life, deal with it. This is not about satisfying the parents' needs, it's about the kids. If xww wants to spend time with her daughter on her birthday, she can take her early from daycare/school, and then have her to you by the NORMAL visitation time. SHE needs to be the one changing her schedule on your day. You are under no obligation to give even an INCH here.

I dunno, I guess me and PWC are doing it as best we can. I had DS the morning of his birthday, and celebrated by giving him a small piece of cake with a candle, playing the "Birthday" song and dancing with him. Then I put him on the bus, and my time was over.

My DS will never have what he REALLY needed from his parents; a happy, intact family. Neither will yours, Papa.

Well, my exww is trying to create her new family, it just doesn't include me.

I've come to peace that she can try to replace me with her new man in her life, but that the kids will always see me as dad no matter what, unless she tries to poisen them against me, which is not a far fetched idea. My old lawyer said she could see her trying to do this and I think her attempt at false allegations against me a year ago was her putting her toes in the water to try and push me out with a terrible accusation.

She doesn't understand that she has a disproportionate amount of time with the kids and she tries to force me to do things her way regardless. The idea that I do things differently or have a different philosophy than her doesn't cross her mind.

They way you celebrated your DS birthday is kind of what I had in mind considering it's my visitation day and she's cutting it short and forcing me to observe my DD5's birthday on her terms. Woe is me who feels differently and approaches family time differently.

She thinks, "DD5 can get one on one time with Pom so he can make her feel special. That's what I want to do so I will make him do the same. He's not coparenting if he feels differently."

I think along the lines of, "It's DD5's birthday. I want to make her a cake, sing to her with her brother's there, and celebrate it as FAMILY."

But she obviously feels nothing about breaking up a family or separating the children from each other on special days and feels I should do the same.

She also puts me in a difficult position (which contradicts her own demands). She is modifying the visitation agreement, yet comes down on me like a hammer for asking to modify it by letting the boys stay the night. Does this make any sense to anyone?

Or is this a case of Bizarro World logic? Alien mothership calling the shots?

I will change things but woe be you if you suggest a change?

The problem with this whole thing is that they are not coparenting- she still has full physical custody- or am I wrong POM?

So yes, she is controlling the situation because she can. She's not putting the kids best interest at heart and being selfish but this is not new. You know she's going to be like that.

You need to quit engaging her and sending her these long emails. I like the Road's response!

Do you guys think my emails are long? I thought they were short. HERS are long.

We have joint physical custody of our daughter. We were supposed to move to joing physical custody of the boys when they turn 4, but she's effectively sabotaged that possibility with her move.

Keep fighting the good fight.

Oh, I will.

I'll be involved in my kid's lives, no matter what she tries or does.

So I canceled a date with someone tonight to have a chance at seeing Sally PLI.

The date was with someone I've gone out with before. She broke things off back in January, and I didn't take it all that great. We then planned to get together again and give things another shot, but she got flaky again. She's now moving away to another state.

So I planned to go out with her just for fun, but Sally PLI asked me to join her and her roomate out downtown.

So I canceled the one to join her and I met her and her friends at a local bar downtown.

We got in a conversation about dating and someone asked Sally PLI what her "type" was. She said, "a guy who will be nice to me and be honest."

I felt like Ross on Friends hearing Rachel gripe about her dating woes while sitting there going, "pick me, pick me!' in my head.

She pulled me aside to chat for a little bit while her friend talked to my buddy.

I have no idea if she likes me or not and I'm afraid of letting her know. But I think I'll just finally tell her sometime soon.

I don't normally have this problem. My dates have often come from eHarmony (exww was from Matchmaker) or something which spontatnously happened and clicked where the woman sent me clear signals that were hard to miss.

This time? Hard to know.

She found out this weekend that her exwh got married just 1 month after their D was official. It was a bit surprising to her.

She was complaining that only old guys go up to her when she's out.

Again, found myself sitting there like Ross from "Friends".

I think I could tell her I like her without ruining everything, but I'm afraid of doing so and ruining our group where we all feel safe with each other.

Any recommendations?

Women, plese, give me your two cents!

I forgot to add:

She agreed to come to my place after church tomorrow to have pancakes.

More deposits?

I'm joining her at her church and we'll then come back here with the other guy in my divorce group and we'll sit at my place and eat.

I think I'm just going to ask her out one on one and tell her. Or should I just wait and not ruin a good thing?

Argh! I haven't felt this confused about someone in years! I have to go back to before I got married to remember when I felt this way about someone!

I almost feel like I'm back in college and with a crush on a woman that I'm too nervous to ask out.

What do you guys think of a "surprise" approach.

Take her to Old Town Alexandria and go for a walk with her by the waterfront. Tell her how I feel, pull out a rose. Or would that risk too much and make the hour drive home awkward if she doesn't feel the same?

Perhaps a local thing would be better, no? That way it's only a 10 minute drive of awkwardness vs an hour if she doesn't feel the same.

Thoughts?

I think, in the end, it's best to wait for my case to be over before I finally do anything.

She's sending you signals, she IS trying to pick you!

Ask her out. Nothing ventured nothing gained.

Read daybreak's thread, "Question for the ladies." IMHO this applies to you also - she already said yes when she asked you to meet her and her roomie.

May good things finally come to you!!!!!!!!!

She's sticking her neck out here, she's taking the first step at risking rejection from *you*.


Read: "Hint hint! You would be nice to me and be honest, wouldn't you??? That's all I ask, if you would do this then I'm interested!"


And she's Rachel, getting on a plane to England (was it England?) and hoping you are just waiting for her.


It sounds like she has her friends participating. First one asks the setup question "So, what kind of guy is your type?" and then another keeps your buddy occupied so she can talk to you a bit more privately.


*sigh* Men! What do we gotta do, bop ya on the head?


And how's that been working for ya? I think this is a good change. Go for it!


Read: "Here I am, just waiting for someone to comfort me and be my knight in shining armor!"


Read: "Prove me wrong, please!"


Not the brightest paleontologist in the bunch?


What's that saying about ships being safe in harbor, but that's not where they were meant to stay?


*bop* Ask her out to dinner at a nice restaurant! Or dinner and a movie!

We've done dinner and a movie. That was nice.

Her "friend" was actually my friend, trying to help me out. He knows how I feel.

So there is some hope.

I went to her church with her today and it was a real change from what I'm used to. It is a non-denominational church and the service started with 3 Christian Rock songs with a live band. It was very good and very cool. The music was pretty good too.

Then came the sermon by the pastor.

We got out and I invited her to my place for pancakes along with her roomate and my buddy, but they all declined. She's going to go celebrate her roomate's birthday.

BUT....

I texted her and told her I enjoyed the service and had fun.

Long story short: She asked me if I wanted to go to Baker Park here in Frederick on Tuesday night. I said that I would really enjoy that.

I have a feeling that may be my night to just say it.

Like you said, the harbor is a safe place, but ships were meant to be at sea.



Now when am I going to make the cake for my daughter's birthday on Wednesday. I make every cake for my kid's birthdays. This year she gets a Pikachu and Jiggly Puff cake. I'm trying it freehand. We'll see how it goes!

She called me tonight and asked me if I wanted to go for a walk. I said, "Of course!"

So we went and explored downtown Walkersville and walked around.

We chatted and barely talked about the exes at all and just talked about everything else. I asked her lots of questions about her and her past.

We had a good time and just walked and talked and we're going out to the park on Tuesday night.

I still wonder whether or not she is thinking strictly friendship and am really afraid of taking that risk, but I'm sure I can bring it up sometime when we're out on a date one on one.

I haven't done this is so long! Meeting a woman without the help of the internet (so refreshing to do it that way) but not sure if I'm getting all the signals right.

Ok, commence the 2x4s!

You know how much I was saying that she definitely likes you and you should "go for it"? Well, I still think so, even more so after her asking you to go for a walk tonight.

But... (no this isn't a bad "but"!) at least for me, it would feel awkward to have you come out and "formally" say you "like" me. It seems more natural to me, to just observe that you guys do seem to be moving toward a dating relationship, and just *do* it, without verbally defining it. Would you be comfortable with that?

I am still as certain as ever that she's sending you signals that she does like you and is interested in getting to know you better.

I think I got a different picture of what you may be asking just now... and if you are questioning whether to verbally come out and define your relationship, then yes, it may be a bit early for that.

I would just sit back, enjoy the excitement of a new blossoming relationship, go ahead and invite her to do things and get to know each other. There will come a time when it will feel more natural to formally define your relationship, if things go well.

So, "go for it" as in keep asking her out, etc. But don't try to force any high school definition - are you going steady, are you bf/gf, are you falling in love, etc. Maybe it's just me, but I personally would just assume that it is a monogamous potentially-dating relationship until proven otherwise.

Totally agree. I was trying to think how to put this into words, but you said it clearly, so I will just say "Ditto!"

OT - I must say, it's comforting to know that our boys in the 5gon aren't so busy that they aren't intimately familiar with all the "Friends" episodes!

Pom, its so awesome to hear you with a 'spark".
I wish you all the best with your new adventure. With all you have learnt here, you are gonna be an awesome person for her to get to know better.

I'm guessing that not defining it is a more mature approach. Let it be and let it blossom on its own. That's a good approach.

She did agree to go out swing dancing with me some time, so that's a good thing. I told her I could teach her in about two hours. 8 weeks of lessons condensed into two hours.

It's much harder to learn as a guy since we're supposed to "lead".

I haven't done it in a while. Almost 2 years, actually.

I think she'd have a really good time.

Yes, indeed, yesterday was a good day. USA played the number one team in the world to a draw in soccer, the woman I like asked me to join her at her church and then later for a walk. I ran 3 miles and have been sticking to my workout.

Good stuff overall. If I drop this weight I may be able to drop the bp meds and even get off the ADs.

Which reminds me:

I've been feeling much better about things. The more I think about things, the less stressed about them I get. There's a certain part of me that feels a lot more faith than I use to feel. Perhaps it's somethings that have happened recently, but I just feel like it's going to all work out in the end.

At least I have to think that way.

Tonight I'll be baking and maybe even decorating. I haven't decided if I'm going to make my daughter's cake tonight or tomorrow, but if it's done tonight I can just relax and enjoy my time with Sally PLI tomorrow. Then again, asking her to help me decorate the cake gives me a good excuse to have her come over and hang out at my place for a bit.

I'll play it by ear. I'll be baking either way tonight.

Thank you all for your support and encouragement and guidance on everything.

You seem like one of the good guys Pom...

I do hope things work out for you no matter what happens!

mlhb