Neither of us have agreed to give it up for life.

I may be dead wrong, but I suspect that he manipulated bunny into condoning and participating in adultery. She does not trust him to take care of her in the future and not do that again.

Let's say this is the case, bunny, I want to point out to you that you are responsible for your actions regardless of what a good con man he is.

And he is a very good manipulator; he tried manipulating board members into believing that swinging was not adultery and was acceptable as long as his spouse condoned it. He would NOT GIVE UP which told me he has a POWERFUL emotional investment in his swinging. In fact, I wonder if he is not addicted and that is why he protects and rationalizes it so.

He was very persistent with his spin so I can imagine how overpowering that would be to a person who not used to handling manipulators.

bunny, am I close here?

Do not speak for me as I have given it up. And besides the question was for you and not me.

And you have been checking the profile you started without asking me daily.

It is too late for mediation.

I have and will continue to own my actions right and wrong. I will not hide from them and I will not make excuses.

You hit the nail on the head with that one MelodyLane.

fyi, bunny, it is usually a good idea for spouses to each have their OWN seperate threads so there is not infighting. If you want to use the thread I started for you, I would be happy to talk to you.

I rest my case. Your refusal to give up your adultery is why you are a dangerous person to bunny.

You should be aware that this all came about because before we met bunny had told me she was bi-curious. This led to here experimenting with other woman without my involvement whatsoever. I will stand firm on the fact that I did not manipulate that for 2 years.



Mel please do not state a feeling as a fact, thank you. I stated my views and was in no way, shape or form trying to alter yours or anyone else's.

bunny, he is just giving it up long enough to get you back and then will likely revert back to his old ways. This is classic addictive behavior. This is what alcoholics do. They promise to give it up until the heat dies down and then they get right back at it.

That is what you face here and I think you know it.

Do you have anyone in your life who really understands what you are dealing with here and is supporting you?

It is a FACT that you manipulated bunny and tried to manipulate others here, ez. That is not a FEELING, but a bonafide FACT. I am a former professional manipulator myself, so I can smell another a mile off. I see right through ya, hon.

I do not feel you know me, the steps I have taken or the situation well enough to make that judgement.

I do feel also that that is what is going on. He is doing things to improve but then as soon as something goes wrong he will revert to the old ways. Even if the swinging is not involved. But feel it would be a matter of time before that would come up again also.

I have a very good support network right now and they have helped me greatly.

I'm not asking or trying to get you to change your feelings or opinions. I respect the fact you feel it is adultery. I admire you for that courage, applaud you and wish you well. I will not let it change mine though and I think you trying to do that is manipulating in itself.

cool! so you will agree to give it for LIFE? I would love to be proved wrong! I am just judging you by your OWN words, but if that has changed, lets hear it.

I feel it was manipulated as I was told this is what other people are doing and feel that we should be also. And everytime I tried to bring up how I felt about it I was made to feel wrong for feeling that way. I tried several times to talk about getting out of it. All that was seen was the fact that it could go further. Over those 2 years he took the affection and attention away as his way to manipulate/punish getting what he want. I would hear I will give that back if you do this and was pushed to do more in the swinging.

I will probably catch the "yep he will never change" for that statement alone but I stand firm in the fact I don't care at this point if it is or is not in our future. I do care about our future together and want to be together.

As I said before, you are not honest about the nature of your adultery, which is classic DENIAL. You can call adultery an apple if you want, it is still adultery.This is the behavior of an addict.

This is why bunni should not consider reconciliation until you get honest and commit to changing your destructive ways.

ez, I am a recovered alcholic with 23 year of sobriety, and I can recocognize all the traits of an addiction, denial, manipulation, loss of marriage, zealous protection of the source of addiction, etc.

How much more will you have to lose until you get it, ez?

Your defensive, dishonest posts only affirm every thing I said previously, ez.

I see him using the same tactic right here with me. Will you please consider going to your own thread so folks can help you without having to listen to him redefine adultery? Frankly, I don't have the patience for it and would really like to try and help you.

So em I to understand that you still do not see I was hurt and felt rejected that I could not be involved also?

"I feel it was manipulated as I was told this is what other people are doing and feel that we should be also."

I communicated my hurt and building resentment in the wrong way and have said this many times before.

Withdrawl is also a way of protecting your feelings because they are not being listened to or considered. Would it be possible that that is how I was and from there became manipulating and controlling? I stand firm in owning my actions of being manipulating and controlling though.

I feel this is a shame. Mel I will politely ask you to stay away from my threads, thank you.

I have made tremendous progress over the last few months in realizations and changes to myself. I will not deny myself that satisfaction or that progress towards rebuilding my marriage and I will not let it be torn down. I have and will own all my actions and if others do not then that is there choice.