Ezb,


I understand you experience emotions as always being a good thing, a good experience? That you experience them emotionally (duh, LA) and physically...like a form of energy we can get out of ourselves.

Would you consider emotions as signals, information only (not good, not bad)? Information to us, about us, from us?

Would we really be shells...just a husk of human form? Would we still have a mental and spiritual experience, as well as a physical one?

What if emotions connect all four together, fused? What if they come from our beliefs directly...and once we get the information they are signalling, they drop away?

Would you try this...think about your surroundings...which would be look around you right now...see if you feel an emotion...as you perceive the quiet (or the music, or your neighbor's laughter)...feel the emotion. Do you have an inkling of where it came from? You can trace it...to your perception, to a thought (I've always hated this computer chair...emotion of sadness or disgust or frustration). Deeper emotions signal more long-held beliefs...shorter ones to more temporary ones (i.e., "I love Spring weather" you may experience a deeper surge of gratitude or delight...where with the chair, unless it symbols something underneath than an irritation at yourself, the emotion would be briefer, of less consequence, less impact).

Surroundings do not generate emotions (though it's quicker for our brains to believe this)...our perception of our surroundings, what our environment represents to us, give us emotions. Most often, it's associated with past events in those surroundings...can be brief flashes you can't pin down or longer lasting echoes you can see clearly--your brain handing you a replay of an event in those same surroundings and your emotions coming from when the event occured, like new again.

As humans, we communicate ourselves in symbols and understand others in symbols. No wonder communication, intimacy, other stuff is so darn difficult, eh? We forget (tell our brains to shortcut for speed) even the letters we type are symbols for something...for sounds...and their complex combination, represents what we most want to express.

Not immediate "I said so!" because that's a symbol, too...symbols on top of symbols...all conjured from our deep desire to connect, express (which is connection) and understand others.

Find and see your symbols...get your information from your emotions...understandable we would make decisions based on that information, totally unreasonable to do so, though.

Know your emotions through tracing (strive first to understand), cut out your trained shortcuts...and act directly from your beliefs.

Makes sense why when we react to our emotions...take direction from the indirect result of our perception...that we repeat so many mistakes, and keep wishing, struggling, with why we don't experience life differently.

I used the "state, don't demonstrate"...state my stuff, not act it out or in. The drugs that carry the emotions throughout our bodies dissapate...in about twenty minutes or less. The information persists, repeats, comes back, to signal you more as you ignore, discount, refute them or assume you already know what they mean.

Just like a spouse, really.

Stress is not an emotion...it's different and acts differently in our bodies. Physically and mentally working out stress is reasonable. Strong emotions (mostly fear, and fear of pain) cause stress...and I believe, we feel it in our bodies, our spirits and our minds, as well.

Work it out in all of those areas...you'll feel faster relief, IME, physically. Don't neglect the other areas. Processing stress is important. I believe it's another act from honor and cherishing for your marriage, yourself and your partner.

Stating takes down emotions immediately. "I feel angry right now" is affirming through ownership. Can surprise you. Tracing that anger backward to it's source is more acknowledging and accepting...do you see how each of these choices exercise your REAL control...so you may experience less of an urge to control what you cannot.

And you WILL experience more validation, acknowledgment and acceptance. Because that's what you're doing.

LA

ezb, one thing I haven't heard today, since we started discussing the swinging, is what it means/meant to you. How did you approach it? How did you feel about it? What kind of draw was it for you - fun times, an addiction, something you found yourself thinking about 10-20-30 times a day? From what I've read, it was a very forceful part of your life. I'm trying to gauge its relevance to the rest of your life.

Bunny...I see this post and then a couple of others down the road. I appreciate you letting me know and also celebrate your act of self-care.

Sleep is another stress reliever...you got your body's signal.

This thread will be here tomorrow...and the day after that. Thank you for your time in considering my posts and your replies.

LA

Ezb...I'm going to leave the computer now, as well. My DH is home from work and now up from his nap.

I'll be back tomorrow.

LA

Yes it will be here tomorrow so now I do need to head off to sleep.

If you have any questions for me please ask and I will answer to the best of my ability. Nothing more and nothing less.

Thank you also for all your input.

I feel you did a glorious job hun. You worked hard at organizing things and juggling it around our money situation. You made so many beautiful things that money couldn't buy. It was a beautiful day full of suprises. Your beauty was unmatched, your eyes sparkled, each minute of that day was and is special to me. The picture frame you made, the horse buggy ride, the chapel was perfect for us (except for the bee of course ). The love we shared and the tears I shed at the alter when I saw you walking down the isle was the happiest moment of my life.

I have been following this thread, and I simply wanted to tell you that I had the EXACT SAME THOUGHT! Something here does not feel right.

I feel thee emotion of sadness. Sadness because I didn't convey to my wife what a wonderful and special day she made our wedding day be. I feel the pain in my heart and my soul that my wife does not realize how special she is to me because of my actions. That is where actions cause emotions.

I approached it as adult fun. I feel I approached it as something we shared together and that it was our bond that enabled us to enjoy it. I took away that bond by withdrawing when I felt I wasn't listened to or felt threatened or defensive. I felt it fit the type of person I'am and I felt I was able to seperate the emotions and still can do that. I have felt since that day in March before I knew about the papers that I did put it before our marriage.

Please tell what it is that you are thinking does not feel right.

Did you get my text message hun?

Ya I got it.

Did you see that you said you put the swinging before our marriage? Do you think that was the right thing to do or has helped in any way?

Yes I said that and have felt that ever since that day. I have tried to convey that to you. I feel it was not the right thing to do and I feel it did not help.

So do you not comprehend how I would not be able to trust that it would not happen again with that or with anything else. Especially since I do not feel I have ever been more important to you? And after all the fights we have had about it.

That's not what I mean, and you know it. I mean, how strong of a sex drive did you have to be able to swing, to be a voyeur, to have other partners, basically to have your cake and eat it, too. You cannot try to pretend that you did not approach it like a kid in a candy store, that you were getting to live the good life by getting your wife to go along with multiple partners. I can name on one hand the men I know who don't live for sex on a daily basis, and the more exotic sex such as swinging is considered akin to being the luckiest guy on earth, according to locker room talk.

So tell me again, honestly, how drawn were you to the thrill of cake eating. How many times a day did you think about it? How often did the lure of getting to screw a different woman color the way you treated your wife in terms of getting her to agree to the outcome you wanted?

I'm asking you this because from what I've seen, you are NOT making an honest attempt to reach out to her from rock bottom. You are still protecting your pretty behind with pretty words and fancy wordsmithing and making yourself sound as virtuous as possible. If you EVER really honestly want her back, you will hit that rock bottom, quit worrying about making yourself look good, and admit your faults. There are many many men on this site who have let their lust overtake their common sense, usually to the detriment of their marriage. But I see you still trying to manipulate this whole situation so that it looks like you're the long-suffering misunderstood husband who made a tiny mistake and now can't catch a break.

If you really wanted her back, I suggest some hard thinking.

Yes I understand how you won't be able to trust me on that. I also understand now what caused all those fights.

And what about the other question?

Cat,

It was a glorious euphoric state. Something behond compare in enjoying life. I have stated I was obsessed with it and let it come between us.

I feel thru all my posts and the faults I have accepted that I have admitted the fact I put it before my wifes attention, wants and needs. I have offered no excuses and it all pains me daily. I'm now instead obsessed with changing myself for the better of our marriage and have spent every waking moment working on that with the books I have read and em reading and the information i have been gathering to better myself for this marriage, my wife and me.

That does not answer the questions that catperson asked and we all want to know.

I understand your feeling that I have not made you feel important. I have been working hard towards that goal.