Hi bunny, yesterday you said you wanted to give your side of the story and then lost that opportunity. We would like to support you here, if that is possible. This thread is for you to get that support. Or if you don't feel comfortable sharing it here because your H is reading, feel free to email me at ohmelodylane@aol.com.

I would ask that Mr Bunny [youknowwhoyouare] stay off her thread so this can be devoted to just her. Thanks.

bump

I am very curious to hear what you see going on here. Do you see signs of manipulation/control and other things?

bunny, did oyu see my posts on the other thread? You confirmed my suspicions about what was going on. Here is what I wrote:

You replied on the other thread:


Now, I want to know. Do you have any support in your life that understands the true score and is helping you manage this train wreck, bunni?

Yes i did see that.

He did manipulate me into thinking it was the right thing to do by implying it would make him happy if I did it. But what always happened was he would tell me I want this, that or the other and then as soon as I did those things the invisible hoop that I jumped through would raise and what I did was not the correct thing.

I feel the swinging has been the biggest problem in our marriage. As he spent all his free time on it and did not work on the marriage tell he was ready to. He came home from work and was on the computer doing it. He would not give the attention and affection i asked for tell he wanted to give them. I could ask to do things as just a couple and if he did not want to do them he would withdraw tell i gave in.

Now i understand i enabled him to manipulate me by giving in when he did the withdrawing. I am now taking back the control of my own actions after all this time of putting myself last.

bunni, he does not believe that you want him to give up swinging tho. He has rationalized that he can continue to do that as long as he "meets your needs." You know it will be impossible to have a happy marriage as long as he committs adultery, don't you?

Adultery is DISASTEROUS to marriages, as you can see.

He is not honest about the effect of his swinging on your marriage, and refuses to give it up. Do you see that? And do you see that until that changes, this will never work?

I know he thinks that we could still do it some day. I would never be able to do it again with him if we stay together. I have been hurt to many times with it and things that have happened while doing it. He has spent so much time on it that should have been put into our marriage.

Yes I do see that he can not admit that it would have to be given up for good. And i see that needs to change. He has said many times in the other thread that he has not been checking the website but I know he has been. So he has yet to actually give it up.

He also says he is working on the present and future but continualy brings things up from the past and then as soon as i do the same he says he is only working on the present and not the past.

Example being how he brought up me calling the man i meet the day i left so i do not really see as how that is only working on the present if it is still being brought up.

And he is always wanting me to forgive him right away on things he has done but he held a grudge for the first 2 1/2 years we did the swinging. And i am just supposed to get over the things that have happened with a lame excuse.

Bunny, I think you have to make it CRYSTAL CLEAR that you are not interested in any future with him that includes adultery. You have an obligation to make this crystal clear to him. And you are absolutely RIGHT to not want to continue in a marriage with adultery. That is just crazy.

You are not safe until he gets honest about this. That has to be the first step, and I see no sign of it.

Secondly, I am ALARMED that you are in counseling discussing crap like meeting needs, etc when the real problem is the adultery. Unmet needs are the RESULT, not the cause of the problem. The CAUSE of the problem is adultery. Until the cause is addressed, the problem will NEVER CHANGE. What is your MC doing about the REAL PROBLEM?

I would also suggest that you CLEARLY TELL HIM what you said here:

"swinging is the biggest problem in our marriage."

He is desperately trying to sweep that under the rug and pin the problem on other nonsense. [to protect his addiction] Don't let him DEFINE the source of YOUR PROBLEM, bunni.

If he won't deal with it and change the source of your unhappiness, then you will know he is not committed to making this marriage work and shouldn't even consider going back.

I understand your concerns very much, bunni:


Which means he won't commit to a life of fidelity and to the steps that are ESSENTIAL to achieving a happy marriage. At least he is honest about that, which really makes your job easier. You are guaranteed a future of more of the same: adultery, neglect, degradation, unmet needs, diseases, etc... because he will not change the things that brought you to this terrible place. He will not affair proof your marriage or even consider a monogamous marriage.

At least you know exactly what you face.

What category would you place each of you? From Buyers, Renters and Freeloaders:

Freeloader is unwilling to put much effort into the care of his or her partner in a romantic relationship. He or she does only what comes naturally and expects only what comes naturally. It's like a person who tries to live in a house without paying rent or doing anything to improve it unless the person is in the mood to do so.

Renter is willing to provide limited care as long as it's in his or her best interest. The romantic relationship is considered tentative, so the care is viewed as short-term. It's like a person who rents a house and is willing to stay as long as the conditions seem fair, or until he or she finds something better. The person is willing to pay reasonable rent and keep the house clean but is not willing to make repairs or improvements. It's the landlord's job to keep the place attractive enough for the renter to stay and continue paying rent.

Buyer is willing to demonstrate an extraordinary sense of care by making permanent changes in his or her own behavior and lifestyle to make the romantic relationship mutually fulfilling. Solutions to problems are long-term solutions and must work well for both partners because the romantic relationship is viewed as exclusive and permanent. It's like a person who buys a house for life with a willingness to make repairs that accomodate changing needs, painting the walls, installing new carper, replacing the roof, and even doinf some remodeling so that it can be comfortable and useful.

I place myself in the buyer category and him as the renter.

I have always put my marriage above myself and everything else and even tried some of the things on this website months ago to get things to change. They did not work so I realized it was going to take something more for him to see that it was not right.

bunny, one thing that Dr. Harley recommends is never getting marriage counseling TOGETHER. The reason is because couples in conflict cause more damage in a joint session because of the lovebusting. They leave the MC office angrier than before; in worse shape than before.

I see that happening here in your engagements with your H. Old grievances are dredged up, accusations are made, etc. All of that conflict is NOT therapeutic, but HARMFUL. I see you being gaslighted and attacked, which is not healthy.

Can I suggest you do something productive and stay out of the line of fire and get marriage coaching from Steve Harley? He is worth every penny and would be able to assess your situation and give you a plan.

Stay out of the line of fire, bunny.

I actually already do counseling on my own with a great doctor. He has helped me with what is going on a lot. Never once put ideas in my head but has helped to clarify the feelings and thoughts I have already had.

I think if we would have done counseling years ago as I suggested none of this would be going on now and we would actually be more able to work on the marriage issues.

bunny, that is where Steve HArley and Dr. Harley differ, they WILL put ideas in your head. IDEAS on how to save your marriage. That is what they get paid for. They are the experts and they give you guidance on how to build a good marriage.

You might them very different than most, which is why they have a much higher success rate.

Are you saying the IDEAS they project are good or bad for my situation?

Steve Harleys ideas will be GOOD for your marriage. He is a trained expert in saving marriages.

Bunny, how old are you and your husband, and how old are his children?

I am 38 and he is 41. His kids are 17, 13 and 11.

I am truly sorry keepitreal that he got defensive with you in the other thread when you asked about his kids.

What has happened is that even on his kids weekends he was spending time on the lifestyle. They were never around when anything was going on when it came to doing it.

Why I said I felt like a free babysitter was because he spent so much time on the computer on the weekends they were with him and I spent all my time taking care of them. Be it discipline, just hanging out with them or picking up after them. With them never listening to me when it came to the rules of the house or picking up after themselves. And I never felt that he backed me up on any of it.

Know I do understand when you get together with someone who has kids you just natually assume some responsiblity. But I was never shown any appreciation for the things I did with them or for them. I am not even saying I wanted something expensive. A simply thank you or giving me the attention/affeciton I had asked for on sunday evening after they had gone back to their mothers would have been nice.