toooo funny with the dd19 story.

i to had a friend that helped keep me laughing and it was truly the best medicine.

have a great time tonight

I went target shooting after DD#2.

The Wookie got skeered.

(snort)

Target practise is good for the soul.

I started a thread not too many days ago about "Protecting" women. I never did get the "Ahah" moment I was looking for. It is my gut instinct that women need protecting. But I don't know why. I know that women like it when men act protecting. But I don't know what that has to do with infidelity or daughters having sex with jerks.

My wife says her dad used to clean his shotgun when new dates came calling. I like your target deal even better.

After polling 973 American women, the consensus opinion is 97% positive FOR the picnic and band. The other 3% wanted to know if Brad Pitt would be there.

Larry

RB:

Dragging this back to your thread, you said:


I didn't see you post that to your own thread. And I totally agree with you (for whatever that is worth) that introducing the irresponsible cretin OM to consequences is great for the reasons you mention.

You did forget to mention the pucker factor though, as in, "Here's to your pucker, pal, and I hope you enjoy it over the years as much as I did."

As always RB, you are handling things with as much dignity, honor and grace as any man could ever hope to emulate. A tip of the hat to someone who is doing his best to make chicken soup out of the situation.

Larry

"""""""""""""""" Quote:At this point, if we decide to parent this child, I am planning on seeking the paternity test and seeking child support upon the child's birth. I have enough options for intermediaries should OM seek visitation that NC can be maintained w/o much effort. I am leaning towards this path for a number of reasons including many of the ones you have mentioned in your post. But, the main reason at this point is because OM needs to live up to his responsibilities. I don't believe that he will want any contact with this child given his past, and if he does it will be limited contact as he has moved over a 1000 miles away in the past week. Another main reason is to protect my 3 kids in the future. Every penny spent on OC is money that is not available to them if they need help in the future and it could make a substantial difference in their eventual inheritance and all of that's not fair to them.
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i would like to offer some pros and cons on this topic when i find a little more time and rb has some time to chat about it.

it may not be as cut and dry as it may seem on the surface

i have chosen this path and can tell you that although it is doable. it also brings a whole different set of problems that have nothing to do with the nc issue.

Pops,

I would love to hear about the pros and cons of this approach. We are just kind of sorting through this one step at a time. It's kind of like putting a puzzle together when you don't know what the finished product will look like. We're just trying to make all of the pieces fit.

Larry,

It's getting hard to remember what I've posted and what I haven't. Everything's kind of going by in a blur these days. But, as always, thanks for your constant encouragement. I am not nearly as courageous and strong as it appears on the surface.

Well, I'm off for another busy weekend(they all seem that way for some reason). I'm going camping and fishing with DS16 tonight. We should get home tomorrow afternoon just in time for me to shower and take my wife out to dinner and to a play she has tickets for.

RB

"if we decide to parent this child, I am planning on seeking the paternity test and seeking child support upon the child's birth"

"OM needs to live up to his responsibilities. I don't believe that he will want any contact with this child given his past, and if he does it will be limited contact as he has moved over a 1000 miles away in the past week"

Was the OM originally from your area?

Does OM have family here still?

By you forcing him to do what's right may cause provide him with enough incentive to relocate back here just to get his monies worth at having to pay CS. Doing his best to get joint custody and what ever he can do to make your life stay in hell for expecting justice from him.

"Another main reason is to protect my 3 kids in the future. Every penny spent on OC is money that is not available to them"

I think of it as this way: For every $1 spent on the OC, .50c has to come from your WW.

How have you planned to get the .50c of every dollar that the OC has taken from the COM from your WW?

I you sure you are not cloaking revenge as justice for making the OM pay.

You caught the OM and WW going at it in a income producing property that you own. This indicates that money is not that much of a problem for you. Does the OM know he got your WW pregnant? Why open Pandora's box. Life will be some much more trouble free by doing something that could bring the OM back in it.

If you had no health insurance, no investment properties, you and your wife had $10 a hour jobs. Money would be a motivating factor to go after the OM.

I don't remember if you had gotten proof from your doctor if your vasectomy is still 100% effective to of ruled you out.

My step-daughter has an OC and the donor has paid $800. a month child support for 10 years. He has never seen his son - he had no interest, and he lives in the same town. Chances are very good that the OM will not want contact. They usually don't.

TR,

You bring up some good points. That’s why our path seems to change daily. We make plans and then as we move forward, we get new info that makes us change almost daily. Going back to the puzzle analogy, it’s almost like putting together a puzzle with a blindfold on.

You are also right that money is not really an issue in any of this. I have been developing commercial real estate for over 15 years. I have a very vibrant business with continuing development and a large portfolio of commercial rentals. As a side, I have been buying 1-2 residential rentals each year to provide retirement income in the future. My plans were to work until I was about 50 and begin turning the business over to the kids if they are interested or sell it if they are not. At this time, DD19 is very interested in the business and DS16 has also expressed an interest. In fact, DD19(20 in 2 weeks) is currently working for me for the 3rd summer trying to learn more about the business. All of this contributes to make decisions concerning this OC even more complex. Trust me, my lawyer friend has given me dozens of different possibilities.

You are also right that much of the motivation to go after OM is rooted in revenge. While I have made great strides since d-day, I still have a lot of anger. With my wife committing as completely as she has to recovery, it’s just easier to transfer that anger to OM. It makes it easier to go after him because he is very unlikely to ever want to come back here and be part of this child’s life. He has no family here, in fact he is moving back home to work for his father.

The good thing is that I have 7 more months to work on all of this and hopefully remove at least some of the emotions from the decisions to be made where it comes to financial issues. Where the child is concerned, I know myself well enough to know that if we decide to keep this child, there will come a time where this will be my child in all ways except genetics. I’m sure it will take some time, but I know deep down that if this child is in my home I will bond with him/her.

Believer,

That's exactly what my lawyer friend told me. He, unfortunately, has handled a number of similar cases in the past and he said that in his experience very few OM want contact w/ OC, specially given the circumstances of our situation.

In fact, he continues to think that since the cost of raising this child is not a hardship for me that one of my best options is to contest paternity and then offer him that we will not seek CS if he will agree to terminate his parental rights. We could then use other legal tools to protect me and my 3 COM from future uncertainty concerning OC.

But, like I said above, right now I am still struggling with my desire to stick it to him where it hurts and make him pay. But, with each day comes more clarity and I do have months to decide.

Being new, I do not feel I can give very much advice, but I agree with others here.

While the odds may not be in your favor, I believe that you should give the thought that the OC might be yours some consideration.

I suggest what others have, getting a paternity test done as soon as possible.

Then if it is discovered the OC is not yours, follow your lawyer's advice. That seems the soundest course at the moment.

I must be a very vengeful person! The thought of a check coming in monthly for the next 18 years really appeals to me. Of course, nothing could make the pain go away, but some cash every month would soothe me. Whether I needed it or not.

I suppose if you didn't need the CS and he was ordered to pay it, you could put the money in a trust fund or in investments for the OC to use for his/her future; ie college and/or to not take away from your COM's inheritance.

I would think that if one followed the first part of this quote "is to contest paternity and then offer him that we will not seek CS if he will agree to terminate his parental rights" that the last part of it would serve no purpose "protect me and my 3 COM from future uncertainty concerning OC".

What does that mean....that you will raise the child but it will not be seen as "equal" to the 3 COM?

If you cannot raise them "equal" I would suggest that you not let that be an option. It isn't fair to that child. It didn't ask for this. I realize that the COM didn't ask for it either, but you certainly can't throw a child under the bus because of the actions of its Mother.

I realize that I have never been this type of situation. I consider it a deal breaker in marriage. I just hate to see children abused...and it reeks of premeditated abuse when discussing it in this manner.

OR....am I reading this entirely wrong?

committed

The obvious 2nd part to all of this is that after OM terminated his parental rights, at some future time, I would adopt this child as my own and then all 4 would be considered equal.

My lawyer just mentioned that I could use things like irrevokable trusts or estate planning tools to protect my COM should I choose to do that. I agree w/ you that if we take the steps outlined in the first part, that I am accepting the responsibility to care for this child, which would include CS should this marriage end, until it is an adult. It also means that OC would be considered equal to the COM in terms of inheritance.

But, if OM refuses to terminate his rights, then I will have tools at my disposal to make sure that OM can't get access to my COM's inheritance. For example, should my wife and I be killed and our will state that all 4 children share equally, we can specify that OC's inheritance is placed in trust and WE can name who control's the trust and not allow OM as the surviving biological parent access to that trust.

These situations are more complicated than anyone can image until you are in them.

Oh man. 4 kids.....

Give the new kid after birth up for adoption. Many many families will love to adopt a newborn and give it a great home. Or give the child to the father.

Giving the child to the father is NOT an option. There is no way my wife would ever agree to that.

I know how wonderful adoption can be because we have several friends who have adopted children. But, after having 3 kids, my wife would have a hard time giving this child up. Also, we have to consider the impact on the existing children of seeing their brother/sister given away.

However, my wife is at least warming to the idea of considering adoption. She has a neice that is in her late twenties that has learned she can't have children. She and her husband live nearby so we would be a part of the child's life without actually parenting him/her. I don't know if this is a real possibility, but at least my wife is willing to consider it. If not, then us parenting this child is the best option for our COM, our marriage and even this OC.

The one who has no children would LOVE to raise this baby! Oh how I hope you can do it. Legally does the father have to sign off on it? I mean adoption out to the family member ?

This baby could be a "meant to be" blessing for the woman unable to have her own! You could use this difficult situation to totally enhance another families life. Then, it is such a win win that you could see the baby and play with it too.

Wow I hope your wife goes for this idea.. Wow.

Yes, the biological father would have to sign off. Both biological parents must terminate their parental rights in our state before an adoption can be finalized. Once that happens, this state has very strong laws preventing either of the biological parents from trying to take the child back at a later date. If we didn't list OM as the father, we would leave a huge loophole for OM to come back later and demand custody. My wife would then have no rights because she had terminated her rights and he hadn't.

I am missing something here....I understand the adoption thing and why that is an attractive option...BUT, why would your wife be willing to adopt the baby out to a family member and NOT the babies bio dad??? Is it just so that you two can still be involved in some way in the child's life???? Personally, I think that would be harder for your kids than having the baby go to the father and let your family move on. JMHO.