****edit****

Seriously? This is your LIFE that you're talking about. Why WOULDN'T they believe you? If you forewarn, then WS can do the same, leaving that little niggling doubt in the back of people's mind when you do your exposure. You get there first, that little niggling doubt (if not out and out unbelief) will be there when she tries to spin HER story.

I know you trust your MC, but ask him how many times he's counseled someone who did exposure as a tactic for restoring the marriage vs. a tactic of revenge. I'd bet the answer would be none (or close to it.)

Please trust Dr. Harley on these matters.

****edit****

I have a lot of posts here, and am always interested in people's experience. A couple of years ago, I had a thread asking if anyone regretted exposure. Out of hundreds of replies, there was one person who did - Nellie. She ended up divorced and wished that she had turned a blind eye to her husband's affair so that her life would have gone on as before.

She was the ONLY one.

Shock and awe.

If you forewarn them not only will they attempt to preempt your strike but you'll endure a HUGE amount of manipulation trying to gaslight you into continuing silence. You'll turn exposure of the truth into a blantant open defiance of her wishes. Her perception will be wrong but it will be her perception nonetheless.

Forewarning them only adds fuel to the firestorm you WILL have to endure after you do it. You HAVE to do it anyway. OM's GF deserves the unpleasant truth about her life. Threats rarely work. They only work if preceded with action. For example, after you expose you could threaten to inform everyone at OM's work and the Air Force wing commander if he doesn't step down from the soccer team. OM will believe you since you've already told a dozen people and MAY respect your wishes.

I also don't understand what you mean about having "him tell her". The counselor is going to tell your wife you already exposed her and guage her reaction.

Further...if your counselor is your marriage counselor then he may have a duty to not keep secrets from your wife. I hope he doesn't disclose anything to her because he feels it's a threat to her life or something crazy like that. Be careful with these guys, he hasn't done you many favors to date...your wife is still in an affair. When a spouse is still wayward "marriage counseling" is often referred to as "divorce counseling" wherein the wayward manipulates the process to fuel their rationalizations and justifications for ending the marriage and continuing what they've already decided they want to continue doing.

Mr. Wondering

I'd take the experience of hundreds of people who done exactly what they are telling you to over one MC regardless of how pleased you are with his work.

Hundreds of people who have been there, done that!

Holy cow...

I just popped on this thread cus I was intrigued about a MC who printed out some MB posts. I haven't read the whole thread, but I think the gist is, folks here are telling you to expose, and MC is advising you to forewarn.

Look, your absolute best chance is if you follow the steps outlined here. It will have a better chance of working, and if it doesn't work, it will have the best chance of leading to your own personal recovery and happiness.

Forewarning defeats the purpose! It allows your WW to beat you to the punch and spin things to her advantage!

Read some other threads. There's countless examples of ppl who were reluctant to expose, but things started getting better once they did. There's examples of ppl who exposed bit by bit, and the WS was forewarned, and made the BS out to be the bad guy.

Try reading Lildoggie's thread. She was reluctant to expose. It took weeks. About 48 hours after she finally wrote OW's parents, her H asked to return home. (I may be a little off on my timeframe, but it's close.)

Try reading AW3's thread. He was reluctant to do a good Plan A and Plan B, he kept waffling. But once he got it straight, well his WW isn't home but he's a lot healthier himself and is being the father that his kids need him to be.

Think of all the manhours (and manyears and womanyears) of experience here! Just do it already, time's a-wastin!

ETA: ps - the reason for not bringing your WS here is not because you are doing anything wrong or to be ashamed of. But, you are in a battle to save your M. A WS is the enemy while they are still wayward. (It's the waywardness that's the enemy, not your spouse. You are fighting to save your marriage, which includes your (non-wayward) spouse.) Would you give away the battle plans to the enemy?

For example, there may be need here to discuss methods of snooping. What good is that, if the snoop-ee reads about it here?

For another example, if your spouse were reading here, they would be ... FOREWARNED! And that diminished the effectiveness!

What bothers you more, a vaccination shot in your arm when you are not looking and a moment before you expect it or one which is slowly and excruciatingly anticipated?

Another analog: drug and alcohol interventions are sprung on the addict without warning. They are not slowly worked into.

Your WW will be very upset, angry and in attack mode when you expose, period. If you forewarn her and she argues against it and you expose anyway she will be an order of magnitude angrier. You are going to hear it’s over and you just killed all chance of recovery in any case. That always blows over as she comes out of the fog. But if you do it after she is warned she will be so much angrier she might not ever get over it.

Your MC is wrong. I think he is concerned about revenge. Since that is not your motive here, ignore that advice.

With prayers,

PS: I wish you would call the MC counseling center. They explain these operational details so much better than we do.

****edit****

Correct, as far as it goes.

But far fewer people will believe you if WW and OM get to them first.

A typical OP deflection is to call a target of exposure and warn them a nut case is about to contact them and spew lies and half truths all over their feet.

People a re funny this way. They tend to believe whatever they hear first. Psychological studies have been done on this.

With prayers,

Did you know that marriage counseling is generally one of the least successful counseling fields in the US/World?? There success rates are WAY below what you'd think.

I think it's because they believe they are dealing with two rational persons. They aren't. Your wife is an ADDICT. Her brain activity and the chemicals it's releasing each and every time she sees, talks to, thinks about OM are the exact same as a cocaine addict. No offense to your counselor but I just don't get what he's saying.

Your counselor said: "MC thinks I have done nothing wrong by being here and that I should be honest with WW about my research. I'm not so sure."

Well, of course you've done nothing wrong. But you haven't done a whole lot right either. You are 6 months in and your wife is still seeing the OM on a very regular basis. The abuse hasn't stopped one bit. They are quite likely still having sex. They've just got better at hiding it.

Don't tell your wife about MB. Especially now or she'll try to stop you and make exposure harder. She can come to MB once the affair is over and she's in withdrawal looking for answers. Only THEN, will she be capable of understanding anything about infidelity. You can't teach a wayward.

As far as being HONEST with her. What?? Listen, you are in the midst of the proverbial fight between good and evil. This is a WAR for your family. Your children are depending upon you to stand up and fight the beast that has invaded your home. Your wife too, your REAL wife that is somewhere beneath this alien you've had in your home the past year is also counting upon you. Remember...there will be NO unrepentent adulterers in heaven. Her very soul depends upon your ability to extract her from her addiction. You can't fight that beast without help. Christian help. God's help. You came here seeking guidance. I didn't knock on your door...you knocked on ours. DON'T trust the enemy until the enemy EARNS your trust. If you give her 100% honesty she will manipulate it to her advantage. Keep your battle plans a secret until such time as revealling it will assist you with a recovery. Consider this...EVERYTHING I did, sneaky and otherwise, to save my marriage my now FWW appreciates and respects me for doing. Yours will someday too.

Fight with integrity and LOVE but the devil doesn't deserve fairness and radical honesty. Radical honesty is a MB concept to utilize in a marriage. Right now...you don't have one. Until the third party is removed, "honesty" is overrated.


Waywards exist in 3 states:

1. Where is OM and can I see him.
2. What can I do to be with OM more
3. How can I manipulate those around me such that I can continue to see OM as much as possible.

As long as you fit into those three thoughts then you aren't a threat and you will have continued peace. Speak up and threaten the status quo and you will be met with anger. It's ALL about the OM. You know this at your core. The evidence is clear...in 6 months you've made NO PROGRESS your way. In fact, you've made reverse progress because YOU have been pushed now to your limits and you are likely to give up soon. Your love bank for your wife has likely been drained to exhaustion. Your marriage stands NO CHANCE until and unless the OM is removed from your marriage for good and the sooner the better.

Mr Wondering

****edit****

This would be a serious strategic mistake. What is the benefit OF forewarning? Absolutely NONE. Forewarning gives the affairees a chance to PRE-EMPT you and spin the story. The "story" will have you starring as a jealous nutjob who is "imagining" affairs and your credibility will be ruined by the time you call. This is tantamount to giving your battle plans to the enemy. [and yes, the affair is your enemy - the enemy of your family and your marriage]


****edit****

huh? How will FOREWARNING change this? That makes absolutely no sense. She will not like exposure regardless of how it is conducted, but if you forewarn her, it will greatly impede the potency. Does he imagine that she will ENDORSE and feel good about exposure if you just tell her beforehand? She will only ask/threaten you against doing it, and then when you follow through, she will be doubly angry because you openly defied her wishes.

Forewarning ADDS a whole myriad of unnecessary complications and hampers your effectiveness. FOR NO REASON. Don't bring a pea shooter to a gun fight when you are under gunfire. You could end up DEAD. You have too much at risk here to water down your most potent weapon.

COGuy

Please read the quote i gave you from Dr H again, slowly:


My empahsis added in case yu missed it. Don't you see that this is exactly what your WW is doing, and it is called "gaslighting."

Mr W is right, you have made zero progrress here because you have allowed continued contact and have not exposed. Your WW has convinced you to become a collaborater in her infedilty and to stand away in the sidelines.

You've got kids counting on you to put a stop to this and save your family! Use every nuke in the arsenal to do so!!

All Blessings,
Jerry

And somewhere I have a thread of how the wayward reacts to exposure - statements collected over many years.

Let's see (help me out anyone) -

She will tell you that this is the last straw, she might have worked on the marriage, but now she wants a divorce, you went about it the wrong way, how can you hurt your children, how can you hurt his children, his girlfriends children, the soccer league, they were just friends, she has never loved you, she needs space, you are crazy, and my personal favorite, she will never trust you again.

Then, in a couple of days, when the OM DUMPS her, she will be over it, and you can start working on recovery.

But your marriage won't survive an ongoing affair.

And then and only then, will the affair buble begin to burst and crack. The the realty of her shameless behavior will come crashing down around her head like a house of cards.

And she will look for a lighthouse in the middle of this storm.
Guess who that would be COGuy???

All Blessings,
Jerry

Don't forget the ole "This is just like you. You always do this kind of thing."

COGuy,

You have 5 pages of advice all telling you the same thing, which is in agreement with a very successful counselor who is known nationally. So I think you know the drill.

Given that perhaps I can reiterate what others have said by putting this in another perspective.

1. OM is living with the LAST person he had a PA with and probably messed up a few people in the process. Do you think he will stop with your W? How many people are YOU going to allow to be hurt by him? He has already hurt and probably destroyed your family. He has definitely hurt your children, your family is breaking up. Don't you think the powers that be need to know what is going on, or do they want a law suite?

2. You need to seek out legal counsel about plan B. If you remain in the home if at all possible, see what that will take. Further you should have temporary custody of the kids.

3. Your KIDS KNOW what is going on, trust me on that one. They may not know the details perhaps, but they know alot more than you realize. They watch your W, they watch you, and they know more than you think, but if you are going to plan B they really need to know why?

4. OMGF needs to know, you would have wanted to know before you found out would you not. ALL and I repeat ALL WS's say what your W has said. "No chance of recovery if you tell". The reality is "there is no chance of recovery if the affair continues and it will if you do nothing."

5. Your W's parents need to know as do your own. Why? Well they may have the ability to speak to your W in ways that she will hear. You need help fighting this and exposure is about seeking HELP, NOT REVENGE. WS cannot tell the difference so don't worry about her. Further your children are going to need support and it should come from you, and their grandparents if at all possible. You failing to expose puts everyone in a terrible position because I am sure most know you two are not happy and they would like to help. How can they when they don't know the problem...her affair.

Why expose without warning. In a word... SPIN. Unless you want to spread all of the proof you have around and endup in endless "he said/she said" arguements, expose without warning. Then it will be up to your W to do damage control, rather than you trying to do spin control. Further, if you have proof, emails, photo's make copies protect them, and be willing to share some with important people in your exposure plan.

COGuy, you are in a war. When you expose the wrath of the WS will be amazing. It always it. OM may huff and puff, but OMGF and other people will know the truth and put two and two together. These people become your allies in fighting for your marriage and my friend you do need allies.

I am sure others have said, you cannot save this marriage as long as WS is in an affair, EA or PA. It will be over because YOU will run out of love for your W, and if you do there will be no chance of recovery.

Very few affairs lead to marriage and a very small percentage of those lead to a marriage that makes it 5 years.

Finally, my friend I am sure it has been said, but it requires repeating. Your children are going to learn about love, work, sacrifice, pain, and vows from YOU. They are going to learn what it takes to fight for and protect the family. Telling what you are doing and why you are doing it will make it much easier for them to understand what is happening in their world, and thus they need to be told in an age appropriate manner.

If you slink off into the night and not fight for this marriage, what are they going to do when they get married and have problems? You are the role model.

Go for it.

God Bless,

JL

Yes...believer.

It will SEEM worse for a few days and you will have moments of regret but strangely YOU will feel better about yourself because you took decisive action. Regardless of the outcome...YOU will never regret making this stand for your family.

It truly can't get any worse than it already is.

Don't ever really apologize for doing what is right. (though you can reverse babble some empty apologies to your fuming active wayward wife for the time being).

BTW, in case we weren't clear. If you forewarn you can't act dumb and chalk exposure up to a mistake you made thereafter. Her perception will be that you clearly disobeyed her request and did it only to hurt her and everyone around you. Exposure without forewarning you can say "I made a mistake, so sorry...I won't do it again". You can throw right back at her the soft meaningless apologies she's been giving you these last 6 months and she'll eventually see how truly empty hers really were. You'll just be incredulous that you were supposed to accept her crappy apologies that meant nothing but yet YOUR apology seems to hit deaf ears...how fair is that? Why aren't yours just as good as hers???

Mr. Wondering

Well said JL.

After exposure, your WW will no longer be able to find a rock to hide under. She must completely let go of the fantasy, break down and repent from her sin.

When that happens, there is only one way to go,, UP!!


All blessings,
Jerry

BINGO!! Don't make a very difficult situation much harder for absolutely no valid reason, CO.

Have you thought about talking to one of the Harley's about this, and working out a strategy with them? That may help you decide whether to go with your MC's plan or something else.

I have found that sometimes the conventional wisdom around the boards about exposure does not exactly match the Harley's advice. It didn't in my case, and I did some unneccessary damage that I could have avoided if I had waited for the conversation with the Harley's before I went the shock and awe route suggested here. So I'd suggest running an exposure plan by them first ... they may be able to suggest some other strategies that may be more appropriate for your situation.

Interesting AMI. Please expand, because I only remember one person that regretted exposure.

I guess I forgot your story. But parts are coming back.