What kind of FWW would tell their BH that the OM was better?!

You know unless your wife was a virgin then there were others there before and you got past that.

Isn't the OM always going to better? We're not just talking mechanics here. The addiction of the A adds a sense of excitement that we BHs cannot compete with. After the thrill of the A is gone, however, SF would undoubtedly be lackluster in comparison.

We both were.

You're right in a way. When we first discussed this, my FWW was very specific about what she experienced with our SF compared to SF with the OM (to be specific, more intense orgasms) but, as I've come to realise with her, it's really more about what she doesn't say and, sometimes, what I don't hear.

She was very specific yesterday about our SF being just "physical", which means that it's not really SF, at least for me. What she's not saying is that it was "more than physical" when she had SF with the OM. I want to experience "more than physical" SF with my FWW, but after 3 years of trying to recover, I think the chance of that happening is probably about nil.

To be honest, I really don't know what it is that she wants in our M anymore. I initially really wanted to recover it to something special, but now I've gone into a holding pattern, and if someone comes along that appears to be more interested in me as a person, I really don't know if I would be strong enough to refuse. Going without unmet ENs is bad enough. Being in that situation and being hitched to someone whose actions suggest that they are only interested in a "room-mates" type of M with you is a lot worse.

Fog? Withdrawal? Anger?

She also said after D-Day 2 she often felt raped when we had SF(as few and far between as SF was) during the VLTA. That sure was big news to me. Left me even colder and less inclined.

Point being, it can be true OM was actually better all on his own account. Some are. Face it.

ed: SF is no longer an EN of mine. I am kind of repulsed seeing any beautiful woman now. I don’t want it at all with anyone. So no need for anyone to feel indignant on my behalf. (I have been told it’s PTSD related, but no matter. I am fine with it.)

MiM,

Do you remember what it was like when your relationship with your W was new (the 1st time)? My guess is that it was exhilaratingly. Learning about each other, sharing with one another - it was all uncharted territory. Truth is, as disappointing as it sounds, it was probably the same way w/ WW and OM. We have already been there and I doubt that feeling of excitement will ever return.

I am not saying that there cannot be passion - at least I hope not. My W is often loving and caring but the intensity is certainly one-sided. Granted, I am at month seven whereas you have been at this a lot longer.

I think there are some people, men and women alike, that need the rush from an A to be happy. The are not capable of "real" love and must relationship jump to feed their chemical dependency. That would be a very lonely existence IMHO.

Have asked her? Does she feel the same way you do? What is she willing to do for you and the M?

I can relate. My WS has been back with me now for 2 months. I sometimes get a mental image of her doing the things she claimed to only have done with me with him, it's like a highlight real that plays in the back of my mind. Sometimes I can just shake it off but other times it's like I can't make it go away. I have been given only a few of the details and I dare not ask for any more as I don't think I can emotionally take having to hear her talk about it. It has left me questioning my abilities as a lover. I have no idea how to deal with it either. I keep telling myself that eventually it will go away. I know it will always be there but right now it seems so overwhelming.

You guys can ignore me but if my husband ever cheated on me I would never touch him again. He would be filthy in my eyes. Pariah said the same thing and I totally agree with him.

You are MEANT to see pictures of them making love with the other person. In your mind. Vivid acts they actually did. Words of love they screamed out in bed with the other partner.

It is to protect YOU. I think anyway. And it is to show you the character of the person you married. You need to know what that person is capable of in order to decide how to protect yourselves. A cheater is dangerous. What if you take them back, have sex again with them and they do it again? You cannot know that.

Because it is so bad what they did to you that you are meant to never let it happen again. (And one way to never be vulnerable again is to never touch them again.)

I admit I just could not have sex with a person who cheated on me. Unless i was insane. Then I would not know the hurt i felt. I would just be insane and possibly be on medication. Then I would not care about much of anything and might end up having sex with a cheater husband of mine.

I have a hard time even blocking out "possible sex" my husband had when he dated other women years before meeting me. I cannot imagine having sex with him if he actually cheated on me now. WOW. You guys are amazing if you can touch the cheater after they cheated on you and lied to you. Amazing, and better than I would be.

"I've been doing a lot of indernet research since my d-day, and I found a technique (which I haven't tried) for getting the images of the A out of your head. You basically relax, then play the 'movie' of the image, then you try to 'rewind it'. Then you manipulate it in other ways, changing the colours, the point of view. The idea is that you then realize that you have control over that particular thought and it becomes less powerful and painful."

Dear Momaof3boys said this. It is so sad you have to make yourself INSANE this way in order to continue to let the cheater touch you in any intimate way. It is like you just lost your leg and now have to lie to yourself and tell you your leg is OK. Even though you can never walk again. It makes me so sad I want to cry.

You are welcome to your point of view but that is just not helpful at all in any way shape or form. Many of us have come here because we have committed to rebuilding our marriage for whatever reason we may have. I am glad that you have not had to experience what many of us are going through and prior to experiencing it myself I would have said the same thing but sometimes your ideals change when life changing events take place. I must admit, it even amazes me what I will put myself through for my wife. She was not just some woman I found on the streets though. She was the woman that I chose to devote myself to and I chose that for a reason.

I concur with you LTW but I understand is some find themselves incapable of that type of forgiveness.

It is asking an awful lot of a BS and requiring an awful lot from the WS. If they are BOTH not committed 100% it is a pointless exercise.

I don't look at it as me "letting the cheater touch me". I have sexual needs just like every other HEALTHY adult. Why would I deprive myself of having sex, because my WW acted like a _______?(enter your own description here).

I respect your opinion, but what would be "INSANE" would be to try to recover your marriage without sex. Just how the h e l l is recovery possible without any SF? Your way of thinking would mean that D is the way to go for every single couple that has experienced a PA in their marriage. Kind of goes against everything MB is about.

And, when someone loses their leg, they usually get a wheelchair and/or a prosthetic leg to adapt to the situation.

Stella,

I wholeheartedly support the right of everyone here to have their own opinions...but yours seems SO against MB principles and SO DESTRUCTIVE to those who are in the early stages of recovery and need support and encouragement.

Think about how your words impact others. You obviously are NOT in our position of facing the infidelity of the one you chose to spend your life with. You have an opinion that has not been tested. And even if you experienced adultery in your marriage and still felt this way, you are not helping those of us who have chosen to fight to regain our relationship.

I hope that your view never has to be tested by reality, but please, unless you have something constructive to offer, do not sabotage the efforts of those who have chosen recovery after an affair. It's not helpful and it's not kind. We have enough challenges to overcome without having someone call us insane.

HTM

MiM,

I am so sorry to hear of your current circumstances. Do you have a thread of your own where I could read more and maybe offer my small words of encouragement?

HTM

Stella, there is MUCH that could be said about this attitude, from a Christian standpoint, but I've come to realize that it's a case of "what's the use?".

Very sad, and yet again indicative of your basic belief that has come up several times.

It IS "okay" for you to hold that belief for yourself. It is questionable whether or not you should state it on a system devoted to SAVING marriages that HAVE experiened infidelity.

Think about it. It's called "self-restraint."

Think about it. "All our 'good works' are as filthy rags."

Think about it. "For ALL have sinned and fall short of the glory of God."

Think about it. Forgiveness is needed because of sin, not because of perfection or superiority in one area.

I don't want to TJ, so I'll keep this brief. I did ask a number of times what is it that she really wants in our M. She says she wants recovery, but translating that into actual ACTION on her part is the problem. She REACTS. Actually DOING something like opening a book or talking to someone about the problems we're currently facing will not occur to her, and if I suggest it, then I can almost guarantee that it will not happen.

I think I did have one or two threads much earlier on, but I haven't "maintained" them. They were based on specific issues, rather than a "my story" thing.

Perhaps I should start a "my story so far" thread. Maybe this weekend

I, for one, would like to read it.

- Sh0cked

The topic of this thread IS Marriage Building, for those who have chosen to do so after infidelity.

With that goal in mind, please keep responses helpful and respectful.

Thank you.