Courts believe kids his age over her and would rather err on the side of caution than with her denials. It would be different if he was really young, but he's 12.

BorW, I have fully explained to both of my older children what is at stake with their baby sister. You're right, it is a lot to put on adolescents, but my kids are very mature and smart. They realize that they have to, at least in some ways, "keep the peace" for a little while longer so the adoption can go through with no hiccups.

WW also knows that, were she to initiate a custody battle costing us the baby, the older two kids would then HATE her for doing so. Right now, they just have no respect and little affection remaining for her, but hate would be the operative word if they are forced to say goobye to their baby sister.

As to whether or not my son fears WW. No, he absolutley does not. He is physically almost her size, and MUCH stronger. These facts are irrelevant in large part, but I am a little more willing to only document these occurrences (rather than calling DSS) because of them.

They have not spoken to WW since Sunday afternoon. She has called and text(ed?) numerous times, but they have ignored her. I know that she expects me to FORCE them to communicate with her, but I will not. I will not have them also mad at me for conflicting their emotions even further in regards to her.

AW3,

I can't remember...do you have your children in counseling?

IMHO, him searching through her cell phone and some of the other behaviors could lead to some other angry acting out for him as he continues to mature. It seems that (if you have not already) should get him into counseling where he can discuss his feelings about this situation. It must be so confusing and especially if your WW ever does get her act together and come back, there could be a lifetime of resentment building up there.

OUC, I have contacted numerous counselors in this area. They either don't accept my insurance, aren't "family" counselors, or say they are not willing to see the kids because they refuse to be forced to testify in court. I'm not giving up, but we live in a pretty rural area and there aren't many to choose from.

So you'll know...my son ASKED WW if he could look at her new cell phone...as well as her pics on it. She knew fully well what he would find, but now acts shocked that it upset him.

BREAKING NEWS!!!
This morning, I got a call from OM. He began by apologizing for all that has happened, but I quickly realized that he wasn't sincere. He called me on WW's old cell phone, which he could have only gotten the number for from her. She actually coerced him into calling me!!!
He then told me how crushed she was over her children's reaction to her and what she's done. I listend patiently for several minutes...until he started to give ME parenting advice.
I then explained that HE was as much to blame for my kid's pain (and WW's) as she was. I explained how BAD it will be when/if he is ever introduced to them. I told him how my kids just wished (and have told her) that she would move away with him and leave them alone! Basically, I blasted him as the immoral, selfish, deceitful, sorry person that he is.
I also told him that, had I known then what I know now, I would have drowned his sorry butt in the lake at that camp 6 weeks ago and avoided this whole mess (lol...sorry, couldn't resist).

So...what's your take on this call? You know I will over-analyze it to death, what should I take from it??? Let me know, I'm very curious to hear outside opinions.

I think she's going nuclear on him and he's scrambling to find ways to tone her down.

Yes. I would have said much more....like....

GIVE ME MY WIFE BACK NOW! (but you wont want her back anyway so the point is mOOT)

Hey maybe you should have said, "Glad you are keeping my wife... you poor SOB, you don't know what h*** she will put you thru and heartache you will go thru the rest of your life because of her!!!HA<HA<HA!"

Stella, you are both partially right and wrong. I do STILL hope for R, but NOT just because OM has left the picture...and NOT just because WW misses her children. Honestly, the damage between them is already done, and cannot be repaired simply by R.

This one quote DID come to mind, but I didn't get the chance to use it: "If they'll cheat with you...they'll cheat on you!!!"

A wise old man told me that once, and I've never forgotten it!

I did point out that there were two sides to every story, both in regards to my kids and my former marriage and that he was an idiot to believe only the one he was being fed! He actually said he agreed and knew that.

He told me to call him anytime I NEEDED him for ANYTHING...I told him not to hold his breathe, I was sure I would NEVER need him!

What an a$$. Can you sue for AoA?

I'd sue him for the fun of it.

Keep fighting the good fight. The fantasy is crumbling and she's reaching for anything that could repair stuff at this time.

I might consider calling him back and saying, "You asked me to call you if I needed something. Well, I need you to stop seeing my wife and never speak to her again as long as you live."

But he said she's ending things with him, so who knows.

The reaction from the kids will be long lasting and the damage does take years to repair, but it could be reversed if she comes home and earns the F in WW.

POM, He NEVER said she was ending things with him. He just insisted that he was just her "friend."

Unfortunately, my state's AOA law did not get through this session of congress. There is not one here right now.

AW3,

Sounds like she wants him to "rescue" her from this pain and grief that she is suffering with the kids. The same pain and grief that she REFUSES to acknowledge that she created!

What a manipulation! Hope it felt good for you to get in a few important points though!

LOL! Yes, that was a missed opportunity. Wasn’t it a bereavement camp? You would have made cable news with that one!

AB3 You did well to get a few well deserved shots in at the scumbag and maintain your composure. I wouldnt talk to him again though. Why let the WW use him to break through the wall of silence!!

But heck! that one was worth it!

Ignore any future calls from either one of them. Let them bask in the misery they have created for each other. Reminds me of Dante's second circle.

HUH...what the heck??? Explain please.

And, YES, it did feel rather good to take a few shots...and I'll admit, he really didn't refute anything I said. I'm thinking he's growing tired of dealing with all of the drama that comes along with this A. Just wait if he moves to this area...then, he'll REALLY have to deal with things MUCH more up close. I'm thinking that's when the A will see its demise; even though, I'm sure at first they'll grow even closer to each other.

WW is very manipulative, I've always known it, but just played along to make her heppy. No doubt, she manipulated him into calling me to try and "rescue" her from this mess. Once, when another woman accused her of seeing her husband (another "chaplain" with the same company), she even convinced me to go and talk to her face to face to defend her reputation. A lot of good that did, now she's thrown away that reputation all on her own!

Get back under the cover of Plan B.

Do not take another call from him.

WW really hates your Plan B...which is why she got OM to phone you.

I cannot believe what a LOSER OM is. To actually think he can be a "help" to you.

Good grief!

Anyway, the BEST thing you said was "Look out, when/if you ever meet my kids."

Letting him know he's in for some dirt sandwiches from them ought to sour any future plans he has w/ WW.

Now, back to the boring...peaceful darkness of plan B.

Don't take any more calls!

I don't plan on taking any more calls, and I CERTAINLY won't be calling OM! Honestly, I didn't know who it was when I answered this morning. I should have recognized the area code, but it never occured to me that HE would have that much nerve. But, like I said, I know WW convinced him to call me in order to "help" her fix the situation with the kids. I now have OM saved as a contact in my phone, no more surprises!

BTW, I checked the list of numbers I had written down for him weeks ago, and the number he called from was his WORK cell phone. I suppose he didn't get fired after all. That really makes me lose all respect for their company...I expected them to hold at least him to a higher moral standard!

I echo what the others have said about a DARK Plan B. It's the best way to starve her for details of her children's lives, which may possibly cause her to feel consequences. If you journal where she can see it, or pass messages, you may as well be sending her daily letters. It is still contact. As long as she can follow what's happening, it's not a true Plan B.

Also, I want to address one other thing. A couple of pages back, a discussion was going on about whether or not it is appropriate for you to have female friends or condfidantes right now. You made it clear that you feel as if you are strong enough to have no trouble with that, and a couple of guys agreed with you (although several did not.)

Please look at this from another point of view. Consider the possibility that one of these ladies could develop feelings for you. That might be an ego boost, but it would be very wrong, and I know you don't want that. The way a woman is wired, having a man confide in her causes her to react in a similar way to how a man would react to physical seduction. It appeals to one of our weakest points, our desire to nurture, and is one reason many of us have set up very strict boundaries,which to some might seem extreme.

No matter how pure your mind might stay (and as a human you cannot guarantee it would continue to stay that way), you have NO WAY of knowing what is going on inside the lady's mind. I strongly urge you to build your friendships with men, or if you just must have a lady's perspective, only in a setting with the lady and her husband both present during any conversation. (And even then, it's a good idea to limit contact somewhat.) Or maybe you could have your pastor and his wife counsel with you together. Otherwise, if you have a mother or sister you could talk to, those are your safest females by far.

And then of course you have us..anonymous females on the forums who can give you insight publically in a safe way.

I realize this may seem extreme and paranoid, but I have unfortunately seen far too many cases that began as an innocent friendship, between two people who were not even looking..
into an emotional entanglement, or more.
That's one reason the Harleys wisely do not even have a PM feature set up here.

You cannot be too careful.

Please take this in the spirit in which it is intended.

My prayers go up for you and your family. I do not envy you in your situation, especially with your children so intricately involved. Hang in there and I am confident you will continue to receive a lot of help here.

AB3, I suggest you call the company and make sure they know the truth. Chances are OM has lied to them and said the A is over.

On second thoughts AB3 that might not be a good idea. You have to think about the adoption. The normal rules of exposure dont apply here. Your wife could react in a way that puts the adoption in jepordy.

AB3, this really is a tough situation, even compared to all the tough situations here. I will be praying for you.

Whoa, whoa, whoa,


Are you saying this has been implicated in the past, and not dealt with???? With yet another chaplain????

This is a NEW REVALTION ab3, WHY DID YOU NOT METION THIS BEFORE?

Now it seems to shape up as a Pattern, don't you think.

This is actually startling new info that you seem to have withheld.

Wahts up?

All Blessings,
Jerry