Wow, I am almost speechless that she would actually say this! I hope you documented that word for word. Too bad you don't have that threat on tape!

So, just as a matter of morbid interest, what sort of "spiritual" label is she giving her relationship now that it has gone beyond " just friends"?

I am angry on behalf of you and all three children.

PrincessMeggy, we obviously cross -posted, and are having the same thoughts this morning!

aw, I'm curious as to what your thoughts are now about your W. Would you ever let her come back?

Now the baby is being used as a pawn for your wife to manipulate you and the kids. Would you ever take her back now that you know what she is really like?

Wow! Did she really say that, ab?

Word for word?

You know AB3 I'm all for your adoption. However, I have to agree with others here who have posted about you continuing to allow your 2 birth children to suffer over it.

You know your wife has been physically abusive. You've just stated she has been mentally abusive. How much more must your son and daughter suffer these visits?

I'm very sorry for your position.

It is time, AW, to save the rest of your family from your ww's machinations.

Her physical abuse of your son will ONLY ESCALATE unless she gets help or gets called to the carpet on it...we've already SEEN two examples of the escallation here. We've seen her extort you with her mental state.

Now she is resorting to emotional extortion OF CHILDREN to get her way.

I've seen first hand what that extortion does to younglings. My littles are FORCED to witness it first hand because they are pawns in OW's plans, and we are FORCED to give them over to her every 1st, 3rd, and 5th weekends of every month. If we do not, WE face repercussions - and take it from me, it's MUCH harder now to amend orders than it would have been from the get-go.

T'would be better for everyone, including your WW (who def. won't see it that way for a long while, if ever) if you requested supervised visitations until she undergoes a mental eval.

And your littlest little needs you to daddy up for her and put her and her siblings out of ww's tsunami of destruction.

All my prayers,
Kimmy

Here's a "SHOTGUN BLAST" response to all of your questions!!!

1. As to her spiritual condition: WW stuck her finger repeatedly in the chest of BOTH older children and repeated, "I HAVE found peace with God in this...so, you need to!" ...Are you kidding me?????

2. The bridge to R is now officially burned! I am almost fortunate that WW has now revealed her TRUE self to others! No, I NEVER wanted a D. No, I would have NEVER left. However, WW has always had me, the kids, and ALL of her friends bow down to her and do exactly what she has wanted us too. She doesn't know how to react now that that's not happening, so she is playing the only card she has left...the baby. SHE is using this child as a pawn in this ugly game!

3. The Adoption: I just spoke with the child's guardian-ad-litem and explained the events of last night. I MIGHT be able to come up with an alternative where this child is out of harm's way...and I could still adopt her! The baby has an older sister placed with another couple. We are exploring if my child could go there until the adoption is almost ready to be completed...then, she return to me. WW would have NO rights...I would NEVER have to send her back!

Much more to say...but, I'll wait on your responses!

This is very disturbing.

Please, ab, read what Wknghrd2LoveEasy said again...


Please get them in counseling right away.

It just gets worse. This woman is outtahermind.


I am so glad you see this.


This is GREAT news as far as protecting the littlest one. It kinda makes me sad though that her sister is placed with another family. How old is the sister?

My husband and his brother and sister were all placed in an orphanage when he was six. The same family adopted all three. My husband says that he is so grateful that they kept them together because they only had each other during the trauma and drama of their bio parent's lives.

That's one of the most disturbing things yet.

I am interested in hearing more about the adoption possibilites. I can't get that little girl..OR your older children..out of my mind. How can their mother not see the damage? FOG isn't a big enough word to explain this. It's like being legally deaf and blind.

Document EVERYTHING in as non-judmental way you can put it.

If this turns uglier with your ww, it will a HUGE assest if she contests custody.

We utilized this method when we fought and won custody of the littles.

If your WW contests custody, request that a home study of both parents houses by a qualified third party - it's a little $, but WORTH EVERY PENNY (even if you have to swallow your pride and ask family's help). Submit your handy-dandy notebook to him or her. She or he will question both parents and the children about the contents of the book - so be honest (you know you will be) and encourage your children to be real and honest about what they share with the person.

Remember that this is not about PUNISHING your ww - it's about keeping your children safe.

While I grieve for what your wife is throwing away, it is her choice. There may be some day when she is awakened and realizes the gifts that she so carelessly tossed aside, but I wouldn't hold my breath, and you MUST move forward through this miasma she created for those littles and biggers sakes.

I am glad your children have a man in their lives that will daddy up and put them first in his world.

This is so upsetting, ab.

She is DEMANDING and THREATENING that they embrace her choices, w/o complaint.

I'm so sorry for what you and your sweet children are going through.

At the very least, their visitations w/ her ought to be supervised.

Abandoned,

Excellent, you are seeking options that will hopefully protect ALL of your children. I have no idea what your W's problems are but your children don't need to be in the middle of it.

Document all of this, seek full custody, and definitely supervised visitation until such time as she finally gets straightened out.

God Bless,

JL

I'm now calling it a "Narcissistic Fog" (sorry, JL...but that's my thinking!)!

WW has truly led a life where people respect her (many times because of her affiliation with me) and where her friends and family (MOSTLY me) have met her every need and bowed down to her every whim. Her FOG is MUCH deeper than most, I fear. She has shown herself to be incapable of true love now even in regards to her own children.

The baby girl's older sister is 5. We have kept them in contact with one another since getting the baby. This family has already contacted me today to say they will help in any way possible. I just need the okay from Adoptions tomorrow that they would, in fact, allow my daughter to return once the dust has settled a bit! This family WILL adopt my child if necessary; however, they prefer that she remain with me and that we just continue to be one another's "extended families." They already have 3 adopted children and don't know financially what another would do to them. This may be a break for me and a possible solution where this toddler can be temporarily removed so that I can legally do what is necessary to protect my older two kids.

I just left a message for another counselor whom my father spoke with earlier today. He seemed willing to speak with the kids and understood the situation in regards to them possibly being part of a custody dispute. I'll let you know when he calls back.

Speaking of my father. God bless him for his wisdom and insight! He came to my home yesterday and talked to me for several hours. I was relieved to hear that he had always realized how WW treated me, but said he never would have intervened because it was my choice who I married. He repeated much of what has been said here. He even point blank asked the question: "Do you STILL want her back?" I had to admit that I wanted back the HOPE of a stable, Christian home, but that I now realized I had NEVER had that and would not settle for anything less now. He commented that the only thing he thought would ever WAKE UP WW was some personal tragedy. I see his point, but I hope nothing like that ever happens, ANY tragedy affecting her will also affect my kids!

I really do have an AWESOME support system in place between MB, family, church, and friends, I can't imagine God blessing anyone with more help in a time like this than I have had. Thank you all for your help...and for the occassional 2X4!

One more thing about accepting your family's help...

There was a time, back when dinosaurs roamed the earth, that I was on my own and struggling to get by. My mother came to visit and INSISTED upon buying a kitchen full of groceries for me.

I felt so...um...what is the word? Ah...it felt "ookey" to accept her help. After all, here I am a grown woman (I thought), on her own and independent.

I voiced that feeling to my father who told me to LET my mom do this for me. ALLOW her to do this. This is what family does. He confided that when HE began on his own, HIS mom did the same thing. There is no stopping true family - ever. Just roll with it, he said, because some day I would do the same for my children.

My oldest is leaving our nest round about now. I've already planned to take him to Ikea and the grocery to stock his kitchen.

He knows this and has grumbled to his dad.

(winking)

This is what I will do, I will pay my parents back by paying it forwad to my children. This is what they did for me. This is what their parents did for them...and it goes back through all the generations, I think.

Do not worry too much, AW3, about accepting help from family. It WILL be repaid. One way or another.

Holy cow...

AW I'm glad that you are closing the door to recovery, and are concentrating all your efforts into protecting your three children. IMHO your WW is toxic. This latest reminds me of the book "People of the Lie" by Scott Peck. You might find it interesting - or disturbing - and recognize some of your WW's patterns.

BTW the book I was thinking of the other day is "Children of the Self-Absorbed" by Nina W. Brown. It is the book that has some very practical advice, useful for anyone dealing with someone who is *acting* in the pattern described by the book. (NOT a clinical diagnosis! But then you don't need a clinical diagnosis to learn coping strategies for dealing with different types of people, or for learning to improve your reaction to certain situations.)

It is not one of those books that will spend hours picking apart the other person's actions. The main point of the book is to help the reader learn coping strategies in very specific situations and scenarios. It even has exercises. These have helped me. I think they will help you. And I think the time may come when they will help your kids - not to suggest this would replace therapy for them. I believe this book will confirm what you already know - that your kids need counseling to recover and protect themselves from your WW's toxic behavior.

I'll be praying for you and your children AB3. Hang in there.

I have the utmost respect for the work you put in to save your marriage.

Now is the time to protect your children. Their mother has decided to become a different person. As sad as it is this 'different person' is no longer their mother.

AGREED iam...I find it ironic that some (a few here) have suggested that my kids' feelings towards their mother was somehow MY fault!

WW had even communicated through M that everyone in her family now hates me too for "doing this" to the kids. Luckily, I still talk to WW's dad, mom, and sister. NONE of them place ANY blame for ANY of this on me! You would think that, when you're own family knows and tells you you're wrong, one might listen...not my WW! She narcissistically (hi JL) expects everyone to validate HER choices and except that the consequences are MY fault!

UNBELIEVABLE!!! She was NEVER THIS bad!!! She is DECEIVED!!!

I must have missed this. When did anyone suggest this?


Your M is not doing their job.

That should not have been passed onto you.