A good way to "check" to help figure out if you're drinking enough water is (kinda gross)... to look at your urine.

If it's a very dark yellow, it could be because it is too concentrted...

Also, by the time you're thirsty, you're already dehydrated--especially in the heat.

Salt is important too when you're hot and sweaty.

If you have a thirst that no amount of water seems to quench, that could be an indicator that your electrolytes are off (particularly salt). Eating something salty can help.

Thanks, Telly, for the heads-up. I remember hearing that on Oprah a few years back, and I was shocked to find that I was dehydrated. Since then, I have done a lot better with getting consistent with the water, but I didn't realize that my daughters had the same problem getting in the water until all this happened.

H is getting on me about wanting to book the tickets for DD7 and I to fly out 4th of July week. I pushed back, and said that I'm going to need a little more time to think through that, instead of agreeing to something that sounds about as fun as having my arm twisted behind my back for a week. He said, but I would've thought that you would have wanted to see your daughter instead of being separating our family for so long. Ouch. I DJd instead of listening and repeating, clarifying that my perspective is very differnt from his on this. I'm going to take some time for self-care, too, so I can respond from fullness instead of being flustered.

I wonder how much of the troubles that we have with our Hs is because they are not the spiritual leaders in our homes. Jayne, were you ever disconnected from your faith? I came to my faith only 4 years ago. I went to church, to synagogue, and prayed to know Him, but I didn't hear an answer for years. I couldn't see that His hand was stretched to me. I was SO empty, so alone. I wanted so much from my H, because I believed that was a hole that a good marriage fills.

I am so sad for my H that he doesn't have that connection today. Of course his interaction with me is not enough, and he gets frustrated. Because he has this huge emptiness and demands that I "just be happy" so he can have that perfect acceptance. I am human, and can't provide that. I hurt; I feel; I have requests of him. I don't know when or how or even if he'll be called. I can just do what I can today to act from the love that I have for him.

I am grateful for that connection that I do have today. I am glad that I have friends who help me nurture that side. It gives me new hope.


Counseling is going amazingly well. I had hope, but I didn't think it was realistic to think it was going to go much differntly than in the past. But we are really connecting, so much so I was in tears by the end of today's session. I really got to say so much of what I'd been feeling unheard on. I don't have to be afraid, it's a very safe environment. The MC validates H when I clam up from the anger I see in his eyes. Then he's calm, and I can validate, too.

ears, that's wonderful! I sense that he really doesn't want to be apart from you, but he's tired of being 'the bad guy,' you know? Not that you're saying he is, but that he's internalizing any stress into that 'statement.' I really truly think that guys see relationship stuff as winning or losing, not negotiating for a common good. Men are from Mars, and all that stuff.

I'm so glad it's working.

I mentioned the other day that I would really love it if H would decide to go to one of my counseling sessions, but he just gave me that 'look' and went silent. So consider yourself blessed that he is working on this!

I do think that giving yourself up to God can make a big difference. We are not that kind of people, and I'm Agnostic anyway, so I don't see it happening for us. But I have seen a lot of good with people who can embrace it. Unless they turn into the self-righteous type, and become insufferable, lol.

Thanks for reminding me of that. You've said that before, and I asked him at the time, and you're right, that's exactly how he felt. That since he's a good person, and doesn't ask me to change, that he decided that I can accomodate him on this stuff. Good to know. It's not my responsibility to be convenient for others. Just to follow my values, which include to meet his ENs in ways that I decide that I'm enthusiastic about.

I'm so glad that it's working, too. And I'm happy that he decided that he was willing to try counseling again. And I'm amazed that we found a counselor who can validate without getting steamrolled. She's excellent with detachment; hasn't offered us any advice, just asks questions, gives insight, and keeps us on task. So cool to see these ideas in action.

I've seen a lot of people with a lot of peace in troubled times, too. I hear you about the self-righteous, who say that their life is good because they have it all figured out and others don't. I've heard folks on the radio like that, but I wonder if it's an act. I've been lucky that I haven't met someone like that in person.

Too soon for an update, I know, but I have been here many times when I've been overflowing with frustration, so I think it is good to post when I'm overflowing with gratitude. Here's an email I sent H today. I like Spins' idea yesterday of a card, and I think I'll do that, too.

"H,

I was thinking about it, and I wanted to say that I think it took real courage for you to be willing to go to a counselor's office and talk about these issues that we've been having. It would have been really easy to act of those thought you were having about just splitting up. But you didn't. You stayed, and for that I thank you. To me that's what being a real man is all about, to follow your values even when it's frustrating.

The same thing with the 4th of July week. You could've said, "I've had enough of someone who doesn't agree with me. It would be pretty easy to find someone who does agree with me. I'm a great guy." Instead, you were willing to work with me on that. Again, I think that took real courage and bravery and strength, and I thank you.

I am so grateful and happy to have you in my life. I can't wait to see you tomorrow.

Big hugs,
Ears"

Awesome.

Cat, thanks for the encouragement

I got a nice response from H, too. I could get used to this

A big thing about H not wanting to stay here is about how hard I used to push for the kids to see my FOO. This is where POJA is really helping us. We are looking for what would make H enthusiastic instead of what he is grudgingly willing to tolerate.

EO - Have you read The 5 Love Languages? Do you know what your H's are?

Yes, his top language is Acts Of Service. When we started out, i loved to dote on him, but when weren't getting along, I would get depressed and underfunction, so we had a bad downward spiral for many years. I was on ADs for a year and a half, and was able to get back to my routines with the DS that had felt too overwhelming to me for a long time. H does a lot, too.

I found that I have more than one myself, with Quality Time and Physical Touch my two majors. I suspect the latter might have to do with the fact that my XW was so bad at it and that I missed it so much, that I "gorge" on it when it's available. My GF commented that I am very touchy-feely with her which she is fine with. FTR, I'm not a big hugger with friends and family. It only manifests with SOs.

My point is, he might have more than one. Could Words of Affirmation be a big one too? Maybe not as big as Acts of Service, but a pretty big #2? Sounds like he reacted really, really well to your note.

You know Seabird, I hadn't thought of that. That'd be really good for me if Words of Affirmation was a top one for him, because that comes really natural to me.

My top languages are Quality Time and Physical Touch, too. If you've ever read Dr. Harley's article on How the Codependency Movement Ruins Marriages, it explains how the disease of alcoholism is really effective at making enemies out of spouses. My H and I were both really resentful and took it out on ourselves and each other in ways that made us more resentful. So ou can imagine how hard Quality Time and Physical Touch are hard to come by from two folks who resent one another so bad. I think I mentioned that I used to teach preschool, that met these needs really well for me for a long time because little kids love attention and to be held.



My H loves to hug on our kids, too, but not grown-up family. Is that how you feel?

That's a great e-mail Ears...it is a very courageous thing to work with your SO instead of just saying it's over. And it's important that you recognized that and commended him.

I hope that one day I'll be able to commend my H for the same thing. Good for you!

Spins, it was just last week that my H was saying the same things yours was. It may take some effort for your H to come to understand and accept that someone else sees something differently than we do. I think it's great that you're not bending yourself to fit his beliefs.

Yup yup!!! Definitely. My family is pretty typical German-Dutch protestant. Don't cry, don't show emotion, don't say ILY. Endure, persevere, and don't complain. It's sad, but to this day, it's very awkward for me to hug my mom, let alone give her a kiss or anything.

My X's family is all Jewish and they are constantly hugging and doing the side-kiss thing... *shudder* Not comfortable for me at all. LOL! Ironic that the XW stopped being that way with me. Another sign I didn't recognize until it was too late I guess.

But I'm really affectionate with my kids.

Try the WoA more. Maybe if it wasn't always a big one, perhaps it is now because it's been lacking for so long. Kind of the same way I am about PT and how it was lacking for so long in my M.

I will try the WoA more. Actually, H mentioned in MC AND wrote down on our homework that's one of the top things he likes that I do.

About the affection with the kids, FC comes almost at the top of bith of our Top ENs. It's one way that even when we weren't getting along well that we could still make deposits with the other person, to see them have fun together. It does give me hope for our M every time when I see him hug them. Reassures me that there are things that reach him.

We had a setback last night in MC, our last visit before H's 5 weeks in SoCal. The MC asked what it would take for me to be enthusiastic about H's drinking. I went into the toll that it's taken on our FOOs, including CSA, suicides, death and injuries from DUI crashes. I understand that there are lots of folks who drinking is not a problem for. But I don't want to set our girls up for the problems their cousins have from growing up with alcoholism. The MC started asking about has H's drinking caused problems with family members? With work? H and my answers are very different, and he said that he didn't remember the things I said and that these were people with agendas at work and in the family that have poisoned my opinion. And that he gets carsick really easily and that's why he has gotten sick when he drank.

I knew that was the area that we would least be able to make progress in, and was hoping that we could focus on things that we can make progress in, but every problem seemed to go back there.

This weekend, my B21 wanted to come out with us to the movie before H left, and H was really uncomfortable because my brother made up a story the last time they talked, I think about two months ago. Felt very mocking to him. So I called my brother, and said that it wasn't okay with me what happened (which I'd said to him at the time), and though he apologized by voicemail at the time, because H wouldn't take his call, I wanted to check with him and see if I can count on him to not mock H when we got together. B21 got mad and said, "you know, I was mad when he said lots of negative things about me, and I didn't say anything to him. So who is he to come down on me now?" I didn't remember H saying those things to him, so I asked them to speak to H directly. Now, after the fact, I do remember when H said these things, things like, "You can't keep a job." But anyhow, I called my brother back and said that we aren't getting together today, but that I look forward to when they can make peace about this. Just tensions were really high and today wasn't the day. I felt good about not prioritizing my FOO over my marriage. I didn't take it as mine that they have these issues to work through. And I told H that I understand that he's mad today, but this is my brother and I expect that we'll work through this in time.

Going through the counseling, I understand that my FOO triggers H in a big way, because the behaviors are so similar.

It feels kind of like weeding the lawn. We can pull up some, but if we pull too much at once, all the red ants come swarming out and biting us until we run away to wash our arms off.

Anyhow, I'm going to try not to get discouraged and keep doing those things that he said would meet ENs.

How's it going with him taking your daughter? Did you get to discuss that last night?

They are leaving Saturday. I've come to a place of acceptance with that. I have a list of concerns that I feel were addressed. He's cut his drinking out when he's with me or the kids this last month. He commited to not drinking and driving with the kids, a commitment he's held for two years now. It was harder for me to feel secure that he'd stick to it when he was drinking heavier, but it looks like it's something that he can choose to moderate for the next 5 weeks. If he does drink while he's out with the kids, D12 can call me and I have some moms out there that I can ask to go pick the kids up. That would be really awkward, but I feel better having planned for that.

Also, H moved his business travel to MD to the last two weeks, instead of in July, so DD12 won't be left out there stuck alone at the manager's house all day while everyone's at work. H works remotely so he'll be home in the day with DD12, or take her to the structured camp when that is in session. And he'll be there in town the whole time DD12 is there.

They also have an acting day camp for DD7's age next week. Because we were able to address these concerns, I feel comfortable letting DD7 go with them next week, and then I'll be there the following week and bring her back with me.

H is still looking for work out there, but he understands that I'm not prepared to move out there at this time. That I need to really get solid with him first before willing to move our family like that. And that him being away is not going to give us the opportunity we need to get solid, like 15 hours UA time. We'll do what we can long distance, but of course it's not the same. Ideally he would identify and make contacts with a company that would have an opening like a year out, so we can really build consistency.