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That is sad beyond measure. Not sad...just brutally honest. You can huff and puff all you want about the moral ground that you would climb on. Until you are placed in that position...you do not know what you would do if your child was in danger. I think that scoffing at other people's position on this is what is truly sad. I do have a moral compass ya know. I don't presume to tell you that it works better than yours. committed
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I do have a moral compass ya know. Really...well, it is pointed in the wrong direction right now then. When you say you would do ANYTHING ...ANYTHING to save your child...well, that just makes my skin crawl. Would you rape and murder innocents to save your own??? Is your child worth the life of a thousand others? Until you are placed in that position...you do not know what you would do if your child was in danger. I do know. I would protect my child with everything I have so long as it does not mean intentionally harming innocents. If I needed to go to that extent...I would put him in God's hands. But again...this is a weird example for the "never say never" discussion. The outocme is "good" here. This issue really comes down to NEVER doing something like adultery to have a gain for only ONE person...ME.
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Do you agree that adultery is worse than rape? If so...why is it that you cannot KNOW you would never do that??? Is it SOLELY because we don't want the WS here to feel bad that they did something that some are not capable of doing??? I'll ask you the same question I asked W2S.
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You can huff and puff all you want about the moral ground that you would climb on. And it only appears that I have "climbed" a moral high ground here because of your positioning. I stand where I always do.
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I "THINK" (MY OPINION) that we, as human beings, are not always RATIONAL.
I "THINK", if we can ALWAYS let our MINDS rule in situations, that we will not be ruled by our IMPULSES.
I "THINK" MURDER and ADULTERY OCCUR lots of the time, but not all of the time, when there is no IMPULSE CONTROL..of sexual and/or aggressive impulses...!!
Some folks have more IMPULSE CONTROL than others and that varies WITHIN each of us from time to time.
One EMOTIONAL NIGHT I was dead set on KILLING the OTHER WOMAN...AGGRESSIVE IMPULSES...
But I never once considered, never once..allowing my grandmother to not be tubefed..to relieve the misery of her physical suffering although this was highly recommended by one of her physicians..A WELL-THOUGHT OUT DECISION...
I made it happen..a joyful life..filled with peace, contentment, happiness and fabulocity.
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MEDC, W2S...can you honestly say that you would...given the right circumstances...be capable of ANYTHING???
If not, the "never say never" idea is wrong. We see it all the time in the news. Good people are capable of horrible things under the right circumstances. Does that mean they were always bad people just waiting for the right circumstances to abandon their beliefs? You can only control the world around you so much. Want2Stay
BS-me 36 FWW-34 DS-7 & DS-3 PA - 7/06-8/06 EA - 6/06-1/07 D-Day: wife confessed 2-17-07, suspected 8-02-06 Broke NC: 2-19-07, 3-24-07, 5/07 My StoryMy Wife's Story --------------------- Healing one day at a time.....
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so, your answer is YES? There is nothing you would not be capable of??? Nothing?
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Do you agree that adultery is worse than rape? If so...why is it that you cannot KNOW you would never do that??? Is it SOLELY because we don't want the WS here to feel bad that they did something that some are not capable of doing??? I'll ask you the same question I asked W2S. Yes, I do know that adultery has been stated as worse than rape. I don't know if I can agree to that because I have never been raped. My first husband did commit adultery, so I know how that feels. So, what accurate measure do I have? To be honest, I could care less about making a WS feel good or bad. I have made statement before of what I would do if I was met with a certain set of circumstances in a marriage (alcoholism) and the reason that I could make that statement is that I did do exactly what I said. I didn't tolerate it. Some people do. Shoot, I forgave an infidelity even when I had made comment for YEARS that I wouldn't. When it was revealed to me I was six months pregnant. I left. BUT, I returned to the marriage after counseling with my minister. I think he told me something about "pride goeth before a fall" and a haughty spirit when I said that I would NEVER do something like that. "Pride goeth before destruction, and an haughty spirit before a fall. Better it is to be of an humble spirit with the lowly, than to divide the spoil with the proud." Proverbs 16: 18-19 You have to keep it real. This is what I was taught. More than that, this is what I believe. committed
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Do you KNOW you would never rape someone...no matter the test?
Do you KNOW you would never molest a child..no matter the test?
Do you agree that adultery is worse than rape? If so...why is it that you cannot KNOW you would never do that??? Is it SOLELY because we don't want the WS here to feel bad that they did something that some are not capable of doing??? Of course I can. There is a HUGE difference in comparing rape, murder, child molestation to adultery. No one has ever said that the lack of morals neccessary to commit those offenses is the same that happens in adultery. It's said that the resulting emotional trauma is the same. Want2Stay
BS-me 36 FWW-34 DS-7 & DS-3 PA - 7/06-8/06 EA - 6/06-1/07 D-Day: wife confessed 2-17-07, suspected 8-02-06 Broke NC: 2-19-07, 3-24-07, 5/07 My StoryMy Wife's Story --------------------- Healing one day at a time.....
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Well, I am not a rocket scientist, but I did stay at a Holiday Inn Express one night. ROTFLMAO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Hilarious!  medc...I do agree with you, and I UNDERSTAND what you are saying. My A was for completely and utterly selfish reasons. I was not trying to SAVE my children, or the WORLD for that matter! I DO, however, believe that one can murder who has always been a wonderful person given the right set of circumstances- either a crime of passion or to protect children, family, or whatever. I believe one could STEAL for the same sort of reasons... But, NO, I would never molest a child, I would never murder an innocent person for my own personal gain, etc. There IS a difference.
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One thing that bugs me about this is that we are taught throughout life that you are innocent until proven guilty. To this point, you and I are both innocent because we have never failed the test. So to admit we could be guilty of something we have not done yet goes against our beliefs. KWIM? Yeah. I like this. This is a good paragraph, W2S.
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As far as rape goes, this is what I feel. When someone has an A they are "raping" their BS. Rape is all about power and control.
I have never been raped but I did come awfully close a few times. Once during a carjacking! (Before carjackings became the "norm.")
I managed to escape by wits and fighting and in one case with the help of some others who were (thankfully!!) nearby. Guardian angels were around, I'm telling you!
But even though the act was never completed the perps exercised the "control" portion of it. And it was SCARY!!
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That's probably why our bodies forget. Otherwise the human race might die out, ain't it?  In a nutshell. I was thinking about the things that we KNOW we wouldn't do too. I can say that I wouldn't kill anyone...but that's not true, because if someone was beating my child, or even my dog, I would. I would do whatever I had to do to protect my child, and to get them to stop, if that means shooting them dead, so be it. I could say that I would never steal, but if my kids were starving, you bet I would. I would steal food to feed them. People do all kinds of things that they say they would NEVER do. Circumstances have to be just right, stars in order, or Jupiter aligned with Mars. It will happen. I have stolen before. I "stole" money out of my WS (who is now deceased) pocket. He would come in tanked, forget about his paycheck he had just cashed, and I would raid his pockets while he slept it off. When he woke, he would think that he had "lost" it at the bar the night before. I considered it stealing because it wasn't money that I had earned. It was HIS. I have not been able to wrap my brain around it being anything than stealing. I just know that I would never be able to pass a polygraph on stealing because I feel that I stole. I needed the money to keep a roof over the heads of my children, and to feed them. It never occurred to him that I could have been the one taking the money because of my moral standard. It didn't allow for stealing...and how heinous is that, to steal from your own spouse! I have come to realize that a person cannot ever really say "never". committed I hear that, committed. I would kill too, if I had to defend myself or someone else from being killed. I wouldn't enjoy it but in a kill or be killed situation, you bet I would! I think that would be the survival instinct, though. And stealing? Your experience with feeling like you were stealing from your WS I completely understand. I felt like that, too, after the A was discovered. I felt I didn't have a right to our money. Why? I don't know. Because he loved someone else, I guess. That's the best answer I've been able to come up with. But I wasn't stealing and neither were you!! But I totally get it. Charlotte
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I don't think my H's affair was about POWER AND CONTROL over ME, Charlotte.
I don't think it was about ME at all.
I see it as being about HIM..HIS CHARACTER FLAWS...
POOR IMPULSE CONTROL...SENSE OF MORALITY...MAINLY, CHARACTER WEAKNESS...
I made it happen..a joyful life..filled with peace, contentment, happiness and fabulocity.
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No one has ever said that the lack of morals neccessary to commit those offenses is the same that happens in adultery. I am saying exactly that. When people can no longer claim ignorance about the resulting damage from affairs (like every person here on MB...they would need to have the SAME lack of morals to commit adultery as they would for the other offenses IMO).
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Thank you for hearing me.
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Where I fit in was his TOTAL DISREGARD OF ME..and only care about HIMSELF at that time...meeting his OWN SELFISH WANTS AND NEEDS...
Don't we ALL have to put MECHANISMS in place to guard against SUBMITTING to OUR SELFISH IMPULSES and DESIRES...the ANIMALISTIC PARTS of OURSELVES?
I made it happen..a joyful life..filled with peace, contentment, happiness and fabulocity.
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I don't think my H's affair was about POWER AND CONTROL over ME, Charlotte.
I don't think it was about ME at all.
I see it as being about HIM..HIS CHARACTER FLAWS...
POOR IMPULSE CONTROL...SENSE OF MORALITY...MAINLY, CHARACTER WEAKNESS... Hi mimi, When I think about when Gray was still here and for the months I was just "waiting for the wind to change," not knowing what to do about the A before God led me to MB... I feel that they were controlling me. I made it worse on myself because of the keylogger so I knew what they were saying about me and those awful, awful things, lies, ugly creature they made me into (Melody has read some of that)...yeah. I was controlled. But that part was MY fault. For looking at it. BUT when he would say things like: "I'll feel bad if you don't trust me," and junk like that, yeah, that was direct control. But thats just how I feel about it. Emotional rape. Mental rape.
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Don't we ALL have to put MECHANISMS in place to guard against SUBMITTING to OUR SELFISH IMPULSES and DESIRES...the ANIMALISTIC PARTS of OURSELVES? YES. But it comes out in other ways. Mainly on the freeway. That's when a lot of folks unleash the beast. What happened to beating up pillows?
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When I think about people committing any crimes against another, I feel they should just use this mantra:
"The good of the many outweighs the good of the few, or the one."
I don't know where it came from originally but I heard it from Mr. Spock. And it stayed in my head. Too bad Mr. Gray, who CLAIMED to be a Star Trek fan, didn't take heed.
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