Why do we post?

Its ok....I don't take that serious. I know there are some real idiots out there. Suicide only punishes your family. You can't take it back. Children can deal with divorce successfully. They will never recover from the loss of a parent caused by suicide. I would never do that to my family, no matter what.

Hi Rain,

Do you want this marriage?

If you are uncertain that is o.k. For the sake of argument let's just say that you don't know. O.K.?

If you want to get to a better place, one way is to try to meet the needs of your partner. You've stated that all your husband wants is sex and for now you are not willing to give that. What are his other emotional needs? Do you know? As a guy, I would guess that it could be admiration, recreational companionship, probably honesty. Would you be willing to work on any of those?

Look, I know what it feels like to be done with a marriage. Really I do. I would have been divorced if it wasn't for my wife doing some radical changes. But, I told my wife that. I made it clear that I was thinking of divorcing. That I talked to a lawyer.

We decided to give it one last try. Both of us wanted to, probably (we thought at the time) to keep the kid's family intact.

Marriage Builders isn't about saving all marriages. It is about giving couples tools that MAY help them reconnect.

Look, feelings change. The excitement you feel with the OM is real, but you know you probably felt these things with other men before your marriage. You probably even felt them with your husband. The point is a feeling is just that, and it is impermanent.

Any relationship you have is going to have disappointments. I think it is how we handle them that matters.

Finally, use the ignore feature if certain posters aren’t helpful to you. Use it judiciously though . . . you just might be missing something of value because you don’t like someone’s tone.

CN

Okay, therainisgone - THIS is the post I, personally, was waiting to hear you say.

Now, do you really want help with your Marriage? I know, given what you said (shouted in Caps) that you really think you want help with your marriage, but will you accept an observation from someone you don't know, but who has lived through a 6 year long recovery with a FWS who once was much further "gone" than you are currently?

IF you are, and if your husband is also (he said as much on his own thread), then I can tell you without any doubt that you WILL both recover your marriage AND have a better, stronger, more loving marriage than you had before...much more along the lines of what you both "wanted" but didn't know how to "get there."

Having said that, you need to know that it will take a long time to reach "recovered," but you will both learn many things along the journey.

There IS one stipulation, however. Think about the OM in whatever way you wish (mine thought hers was the smartest, 'bestess', man in the whole world when we took the first shaky, stumbling, steps into recovery when she chose to end her 6 year long affair...in which she had accepted a marriage proposal from him and intended to divorce me for him); BUT there can be NO Contact with the OM, of any kind, save for one final "No Contact Letter." We can talk more about that letter later, but understand this simple point, there is NO "room" in any marriage for any "3rd person" other than God.

And that brings me to the issue of your faith. Do you believe in Jesus Christ? If so, remember that He is the Lord of forgiveness, reconciliation, and restoration of relationships. If so, we need to talk about your relationship with the Lord, because it must come first before recovery with your husband.

I'll await your responses before posting further.

God bless.

Dear Rain,
It's hard to know just what to say. I see a many different things when I read your posts.

Pain
Sorrow
Doubt
Hope
Anger
More pain


I'm sorry for the pain. I know any words we use here won't begin to identify or describe the emotions you have been coping with.

I think you need a starting place. That place is not always clear in our minds. Not always easy to identify.

I hope you don't mind if I tell a story.
Some time ago, I visited a garden.
The Garden

It was a beautiful garden, the flowers, and other foliage was varied and vibrant. The walkways and paths inviting, cool, and restful. I wandered in the garden, enjoying the beauty, and for a time lost in thought. It was a wonderful time.

Since visiting the garden, I have often thought about it. This garden is one of the most beautiful places I have ever visited. It reminds me of my marriage. I realize it must require upkeep. Someone weeds it, waters it, fertilizes, and mows.
Weeds, if left unchecked, would soon over run the tender flowers. Without water, the plants would wilt, and fade. No plant could maintain healthy growth without nourishment.

It has been 6 years since I first came to MB. I have learned much. I have discovered that our marriage is much like the garden. What garden plant is more tender than a marriage? Or of more value? Your marriage also requires a great deal of care. Weeds (feelings for others) can creep in, and take the nourishment intended for tender flowers. A marriage also requires water, and fertilizer. We call that meeting emotional needs, and it serves the same purpose for a marriage, as water, and plant food do for a garden.

When I married, I didn't know much about these things. We were struggling when we found MB. We have used the Marriage builder materials to nurture, and strengthen our marriage. It has grown in strength, and in beauty, and it continues to improve as we continue to tend it and care for it.

I can't see any reason that would prevent your marriage from becoming the garden that you wish it to be. It will require some effort, but the rewards are worth the work.

The garden in the photo was planted many years ago, and tenderly cared for. It did not come in a season, or even in 5 or ten.

Your marriage recovery will also require time. Not as long as the garden in the photo, but more than a few seasons.

To make it work, you have to be able to tell the weeds from the flowers. We have learned on MB that some friendships look like flowers when they are young, but as they grow, it is impossible to hide the damage they do to the garden of our marriage. Anything that takes the nourishment intended for the flowers does damage to the garden. If not rooted out, it will spread, and take over the garden in time.

So many here have been where you are. They want to help. They want the pain to end, and the garden of your marriage to flourish. From the names of those who have posted, I know that some have already shed tears for you. They care, and want to help.

There are as many kinds of gardeners, as there are flowers. Some fertilize, and nourish, and some use pruning shears. Both are necessary for the good of the garden.

I hope you can come to know that each person that posts wants to see you happy. We want your garden to be a thing of beauty, and a joy to both of you.

I invite you to start the journey by reading the MB materials. This is a beginning. It will give the background you need to transform your marriage.

There are steps that need to be followed for this to work. Once you learn what they are, and begin to follow them, your garden will begin to change, and you will be happier because of it.

If this is what you want, we will try to assist.

May we work with you?

SS

Road,

I only questioned what you said in your post because it followed mine and seemed to be unrelated to any previous post on this thread.

But what you said in response to me does give me pause. I don't think time of membership or how long ago someone was either the betrayed or betrayer has any bearing at all on their ability to post sound and valuable advice. I also don't believe number of posts has any bearing on whether the advice being given is of any value since I could point you to folks who have literally thousands of posts on threads with hundreds of pages and you would be hard pressed to even find one post by them in the past 5 years or so off of that one thread.

I don't necessarily always agree with what a person posts, but I try not to belittle their effort. I might offer a counter opinion or challenge something I think to be counter to MB principals in general, but seldom do I just lash out at someone from anger or frustration. I have enough mastery of the English language that I can usually hold my own position pretty well and try really hard to not resort to making any comments about other people's posting styles or the value of their advice.

As for the writing part, I agree that neither you nor I are paid professional writers, but I'm still a bit baffled by why you even chose to respond to my post questioning if you thought that I was beating Rain up. You seemed to be saying that my post prior to yours was just incidental and then went on to question the writing and advice giving abilities of one person in particular and then seemed to suggest that I too would be better served by not posting and letting the FWWs around here do the posting to Rain.

Funny thing is that I recognize those whom she seems to accept into her circle and those she does not. As I said before, I only responded here at all because she made a point of responding in a favorable way to what I had already said to her. If Rain were to respond directly to my posts to her, I would continue to post to her, but since she seems to have connected with others, I will probably keep reading for a while and then abandon this thread unless called upon by someone to come here for a specific purpose.

And I do know that Rain is a foggy, by the script wayward. You might notice that I pointed that out to her in my very first post on the now locked thread.

I guess I'm just confused by what I perceive to be sarcasm coming from you and your suggestion that perhaps I should not post, based on some criteria that you brought up that doesn't even seem to apply to me, since I have been here 18 months longer than you, posted nearly ten times as many posts as you, and to blow my own horn, write way better than you.

Read something I have written and I'll let you critique it on my own thread. I've got a couple of them linked in my sig line so it should be easy to find. If you want to see other things I have written, ask around and see who can point you toward something I have written.

Back to reading and not posting, but only because Rain hasn't responded directly to me yet and not because I am a BS instead of a FWS.

Mark

I learned something years ago from my natural born salesman dad that has served me well over the years...When someone repeats something three times or more in a conversation/interaction, you'd best believe them...That information is at the heart of what they want/need/mean/intend...

I give you Rain's words here:


That's One...


That'd be Two, for those keeping count...


And Three...

There certainly could be more that I missed...but there are at least "the magic three"...

So I read those, and I must say that in doing so, I am compelled to agree with saynomore who said...


So, Rain, I ask you...Is this true? Are you only here to essentially get your husband "off your back"? Are you coming here and behaving as you are hoping that others will tell your husband there is "no hope"? Are you hoping that the board, in essence, will serve as some sort of "divorce counseling" for you? Are you only doing this so that you can say "Well, I tried!"?

I haven't seen a lot of really heartfelt posts from you Rain...I've seen a lot of digging...a lot of insults...a lot of excuses for why you can't do the right thing...a lot of blameshifting...Don't get me wrong, there have been a lot of posts, but many of them were one word posts saying "whatever" or all caps shouting posts...In that large number of posts in a short time I've yet to hear a sincere wish to change...an earnest asking if recovery is possible...That makes me wonder if you've already made up your mind Rain...Have you? I'd sure appreciate knowing...

And if you haven't, let me give you a hint at what it takes to make it to the other side of this...what it will take for both your husband and you to be able to heal...

It takes a HUMBLE HEART Rain...You must start there...Most especially where your husband is concerned, but that's not all...read on...

I read you say on this thread that you had no regrets about some of the things you said on your thread yesterday...wow...Rain, you said some VERY hurtful things to people...You asked BSs why they were "dumped"...That was HARSH Rain...Not humble at all...And I realize that "shots" were fired your way as well, but that in no way justifies your behavior...Do you agree? You must clean up your side of the street regardless of what others do...You must choose to ACT, not REACT...

I do hope that you will stick around and learn, but I hope that you do so with a change in attitude...It will benefit YOU and YOUR HUSBAND...This I guarantee...

I will leave you with this tonight Rain...You will begin to FEEL good when you DO good...Others weren't kidding you, FEELINGS FOLLOW ACTIONS...

Mrs. W

Once again, rain, remember that while you're trying 2 decide what you want 2 do...

...your H might just take the oppor2nity 2 make the decision for you.

-ol' 2long

Truth is, I don't know if I want help with my marriage at this point or not. I want help in helping understand why this is happening to me and why I would do such horrible things to such a wonderful man that loves me as much as he does.

Rain, if this is really true (e.g. that this is not about the OM and you don’t want to be with him) then it shouldn’t be any problem for you to cut off all contact with OM? Especially since your emotional affair with this OM is very painful and hurtful to your H?

The best place to start is to cut off all contact with the OM. Will you do that Rain?

Rain, I had an inappropriate online-friendship years ago. I stopped the friendship before any feelings of attraction were admitted, but I was on the verge of an Emotional Affair (EA) anyway. A few years into recovery, I had a 2-day relapse and crossed boundaries into a full blown EA with the same man through e-mail exchanges when we admitted past feelings of love towards each other.

My involvement with OM was never about an unhappy marriage and/or unmet needs in my M (I was generally happily married and the thought of leaving my H and be with OM never crossed my mind). But in spite of this, my involvement with OM still created enormous damage and pain in my M and to my dear H… My EA took enormous emotional energy away from my H and M and as a result I started to give less to my H and we started experience problems in our M. For example, I started to believe that I was not in love with my H and became an unhappy/dissatisfied wife who started to view my H in a very negative light and often criticized him...

So, as you can see Rain, any inappropriate involvement or Affair with an opposite sex person WILL damage an otherwise good/happy marriage (as it was in my case)…

OR

It will ADD enormous damage and create major ADDITIONAL issues in a marriage who was problematic in the first place (as is the case with you and your H)…

Add to the fact that this is your second affair with a different person…the damage became so much more severe…especially to your H…

My point is this Rain:

Although the issues/concerns you feel you have about your M and H right now might not be about the OM…your involvement with the OM still ADDS to those issues and creates further damage to yourself, your H and M… Therefore, should you decide to give your M a real shot, get the OM out of the way first (send him a NC letter approved by your H and signed by both of you) so that you can focus all your emotional energy on your H and M. Don’t decide to give up on your M until you’ve at least done that…

And please stop pitying yourself and be so negative about yourself Rain… I understand why you feel that way…but don’t let your feelings of unworthiness be an excuse/justification to abandon your H and M… No, you can turn things around in spite of your wrong choices and actions and start repairing the damage to your H and M… You can start rebuild your feelings of self worth by making the right choices and taking the right steps Rain… I pray you will do that…

Suzet

NS: As soon as you cut of all contact with OM you might start experience withdrawal from him. Here is a link to a guide that will help you with that (read the whole thing and follow the guidelines to FWS on how to get through withdrawal). Even if you don’t experience withdrawal, it will still help to follow those guidelines because it will help you to start connecting with your H again:

http://www.marriagebuilders.com/ubbt/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=1354401&fpart=1

When you write "family" do you mean your son or he and your H?
If you're including your H in that then I have to say that your A is the worst pain your H will probably ever experience. Worse then if you killed yourself. That may be hard to believe but I have read personal testimonies of ppl who have experienced both.

If you care enough to protect your family from the devastation of that, then how can you not care to protect them from the worst pain they will ever endure?

I know things seem hopeless, like you will never be happy with your H, but I can guarentee you that if you take the right steps, you CAN and WILL have the marrigae you and he have always dreamed of. It can be better then it ever was before.

BUT First, you have to cut off the OM COMPLETELY!! Commit yourself to NC for at least few months and see how your feelings change. It WILL be hard at first, but it will get better.

If for no other reason then the sake of your child, do this. HE needs both his mother and father and the most valuable gift that you can give him is to love his father.

Someone said before that love is not feeling it is a commitment. So make the commitment to your son since you love him. Commit to making your M work no matter what. Thats what your son needs.

You have to put yourself and your feelings aside for now and do this for him if for no other reason.

You have to be selfless now instead of selfish. Like MrsW said, when you DO good then you will FEEL good.

I hope you stay here and take the advice of some of the FWW vets. They know what they are talking about, and they really do want to help you save your marriage. Some of the things they say may seem harsh, but they are just trying to get your attention.

We all see you racing at full speed into a brick wall and we just want to help redirect you before you go crashing into it.

The grass inst nor will it ever be greener on the other side. Dont make a huge mistake that you will regret.

Take care, and God Bless!!

No...not as simple as that.