Iam, I agree with you 100%

Even Rain, being as foggy as she is recognizes that only she can make the decision to stay ot go...


There are some here that like to make everyone a victim. Go figure. Rain will decide to sink or swim of her own accord. If she decides on the latter, she will find much help here.

and people without the ability to read minds should not attempt to figure out the motives of others that have been here helping WS and BS alike. What you call poor judgement has helped countless number of posters here. Different strokes for different folks.

Rain,

Do me and my wife (she posted to you earlier today) a HUGE favor and just read the linked article below.

You don't have to agree with it...just read it. It's a fairly quick read and please come back and let me know your thoughts.

Once you confirm you've read it I promise I've got some other more important information to share with you, but this first.

31 Reasons

Mr. Wondering

Road,

I only questioned what you said in your post because it followed mine and seemed to be unrelated to any previous post on this thread.

But what you said in response to me does give me pause. I don't think time of membership or how long ago someone was either the betrayed or betrayer has any bearing at all on their ability to post sound and valuable advice. I also don't believe number of posts has any bearing on whether the advice being given is of any value since I could point you to folks who have literally thousands of posts on threads with hundreds of pages and you would be hard pressed to even find one post by them in the past 5 years or so off of that one thread.

I don't necessarily always agree with what a person posts, but I try not to belittle their effort. I might offer a counter opinion or challenge something I think to be counter to MB principals in general, but seldom do I just lash out at someone from anger or frustration. I have enough mastery of the English language that I can usually hold my own position pretty well and try really hard to not resort to making any comments about other people's posting styles or the value of their advice.

As for the writing part, I agree that neither you nor I are paid professional writers, but I'm still a bit baffled by why you even chose to respond to my post questioning if you thought that I was beating Rain up. You seemed to be saying that my post prior to yours was just incidental and then went on to question the writing and advice giving abilities of one person in particular and then seemed to suggest that I too would be better served by not posting and letting the FWWs around here do the posting to Rain.

Funny thing is that I recognize those whom she seems to accept into her circle and those she does not. As I said before, I only responded here at all because she made a point of responding in a favorable way to what I had already said to her. If Rain were to respond directly to my posts to her, I would continue to post to her, but since she seems to have connected with others, I will probably keep reading for a while and then abandon this thread unless called upon by someone to come here for a specific purpose.

And I do know that Rain is a foggy, by the script wayward. You might notice that I pointed that out to her in my very first post on the now locked thread.

I guess I'm just confused by what I perceive to be sarcasm coming from you and your suggestion that perhaps I should not post, based on some criteria that you brought up that doesn't even seem to apply to me, since I have been here 18 months longer than you, posted nearly ten times as many posts as you, and to blow my own horn, write way better than you.

Read something I have written and I'll let you critique it on my own thread. I've got a couple of them linked in my sig line so it should be easy to find. If you want to see other things I have written, ask around and see who can point you toward something I have written.

Back to reading and not posting, but only because Rain hasn't responded directly to me yet and not because I am a BS instead of a FWS.

Mark

I am here. Just got home and rejoined.

Yes, I need to decide if I want to stay in this marriage and I son't know how to decide. Where do I start?

I learned something years ago from my natural born salesman dad that has served me well over the years...When someone repeats something three times or more in a conversation/interaction, you'd best believe them...That information is at the heart of what they want/need/mean/intend...

I give you Rain's words here:


That's One...


That'd be Two, for those keeping count...


And Three...

There certainly could be more that I missed...but there are at least "the magic three"...

So I read those, and I must say that in doing so, I am compelled to agree with saynomore who said...


So, Rain, I ask you...Is this true? Are you only here to essentially get your husband "off your back"? Are you coming here and behaving as you are hoping that others will tell your husband there is "no hope"? Are you hoping that the board, in essence, will serve as some sort of "divorce counseling" for you? Are you only doing this so that you can say "Well, I tried!"?

I haven't seen a lot of really heartfelt posts from you Rain...I've seen a lot of digging...a lot of insults...a lot of excuses for why you can't do the right thing...a lot of blameshifting...Don't get me wrong, there have been a lot of posts, but many of them were one word posts saying "whatever" or all caps shouting posts...In that large number of posts in a short time I've yet to hear a sincere wish to change...an earnest asking if recovery is possible...That makes me wonder if you've already made up your mind Rain...Have you? I'd sure appreciate knowing...

And if you haven't, let me give you a hint at what it takes to make it to the other side of this...what it will take for both your husband and you to be able to heal...

It takes a HUMBLE HEART Rain...You must start there...Most especially where your husband is concerned, but that's not all...read on...

I read you say on this thread that you had no regrets about some of the things you said on your thread yesterday...wow...Rain, you said some VERY hurtful things to people...You asked BSs why they were "dumped"...That was HARSH Rain...Not humble at all...And I realize that "shots" were fired your way as well, but that in no way justifies your behavior...Do you agree? You must clean up your side of the street regardless of what others do...You must choose to ACT, not REACT...

I do hope that you will stick around and learn, but I hope that you do so with a change in attitude...It will benefit YOU and YOUR HUSBAND...This I guarantee...

I will leave you with this tonight Rain...You will begin to FEEL good when you DO good...Others weren't kidding you, FEELINGS FOLLOW ACTIONS...

Mrs. W

Once again, rain, remember that while you're trying 2 decide what you want 2 do...

...your H might just take the oppor2nity 2 make the decision for you.

-ol' 2long

Great post, MrsW.

Rain -- start with healing yourself.

Define who you are. What characteristics and values and morals do you live by?

Are you...

hardworking?
caring?
nurturing?
ambitious?
loyal?
funny?
honest?
supportive?
competitive?
etc...

What is really most important in your life?

children?
work?
faith?
love?
family?
etc....

What are your beliefs?
In moral situations, how would you decide?
abortion?
sex before marriage?
etc...

Are you living within your own beliefs?
The current definitions that describe your behavior are very unpleasant and ugly. Is that who you are?
If not, why aren't you correcting it?

I've been where you are. I've said OM had nothing to do with it. That the marriage was bad on its own, and that I should never have gotten married. OM was not to blame.
I'll just flat out say it -- from one cheating wife to another --Bull$hit.

If that is REALLY true, then cut OM loose for 6 months. Have NO contact. Really truly no contact. Free him to live his life without you in the future plan.

I'd bet my LIFE that right now you are balking and squirming at the idea. You're trying to come up with reasons why that would not be necessary. You can't and won't do it.

That alone should show you that you are addicted to OM and the feelings he gives you, the emotional needs he meets for you that you don't want to go without.

You have your husband on one hand -- and you can list a thousand grievances against him. Plus he bores you. He doesn't give you those same feelings as OM.

Then there is OM. He has a clean slate. Plus all those warm fuzzies.

Your poor husband can't compete with that.

So stop living your life based on your "feelings"....because "feelings" change all the time.
Start living your life based on your character. Your values.
Your morals.

What are those? Who are you?

I fear that is what she is hoping for 2long...She's here to prove to him that it can't work--and is using others to further that goal...

Using them very effectively, in fact...

By acting out as she has here, she provokes people into saying things like..."Your husband deserves better than you"..."You have no desire to end your affair"...I believe she'd love it if someone would say "she's a lost cause with no hope of rehabilitation"...Pretty good manipulation on her part so far I'd say...

Using these tactics she takes the heat off herself! She gets others to convince her husband that their marriage is toast, and then he makes the decision for her--she believes that if he is the one that decides to divorce that she won't be considered the "bad guy"...It kinda reminds me of a "suicide by cop"...

I tell ya what though, I'd love for Rain to prove me wrong...If she does, I'll cheer wildly for she and her husband and offer all the support I can...I firmly believe that their marriage is recoverable...

Mrs. W

THANKS!

Mrs. W

Indeed. Even if it's not a consciously-stated desire, it could be a self-fulfilling prophecy.

I hope we're wrong about rain, 2.

-ol' 2long

Absolutely, spot on!

Rain, if this is really true (e.g. that this is not about the OM and you don’t want to be with him) then it shouldn’t be any problem for you to cut off all contact with OM? Especially since your emotional affair with this OM is very painful and hurtful to your H?

The best place to start is to cut off all contact with the OM. Will you do that Rain?

Rain, I had an inappropriate online-friendship years ago. I stopped the friendship before any feelings of attraction were admitted, but I was on the verge of an Emotional Affair (EA) anyway. A few years into recovery, I had a 2-day relapse and crossed boundaries into a full blown EA with the same man through e-mail exchanges when we admitted past feelings of love towards each other.

My involvement with OM was never about an unhappy marriage and/or unmet needs in my M (I was generally happily married and the thought of leaving my H and be with OM never crossed my mind). But in spite of this, my involvement with OM still created enormous damage and pain in my M and to my dear H… My EA took enormous emotional energy away from my H and M and as a result I started to give less to my H and we started experience problems in our M. For example, I started to believe that I was not in love with my H and became an unhappy/dissatisfied wife who started to view my H in a very negative light and often criticized him...

So, as you can see Rain, any inappropriate involvement or Affair with an opposite sex person WILL damage an otherwise good/happy marriage (as it was in my case)…

OR

It will ADD enormous damage and create major ADDITIONAL issues in a marriage who was problematic in the first place (as is the case with you and your H)…

Add to the fact that this is your second affair with a different person…the damage became so much more severe…especially to your H…

My point is this Rain:

Although the issues/concerns you feel you have about your M and H right now might not be about the OM…your involvement with the OM still ADDS to those issues and creates further damage to yourself, your H and M… Therefore, should you decide to give your M a real shot, get the OM out of the way first (send him a NC letter approved by your H and signed by both of you) so that you can focus all your emotional energy on your H and M. Don’t decide to give up on your M until you’ve at least done that…

And please stop pitying yourself and be so negative about yourself Rain… I understand why you feel that way…but don’t let your feelings of unworthiness be an excuse/justification to abandon your H and M… No, you can turn things around in spite of your wrong choices and actions and start repairing the damage to your H and M… You can start rebuild your feelings of self worth by making the right choices and taking the right steps Rain… I pray you will do that…

Suzet

NS: As soon as you cut of all contact with OM you might start experience withdrawal from him. Here is a link to a guide that will help you with that (read the whole thing and follow the guidelines to FWS on how to get through withdrawal). Even if you don’t experience withdrawal, it will still help to follow those guidelines because it will help you to start connecting with your H again:

http://www.marriagebuilders.com/ubbt/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=1354401&fpart=1

therainisgone - you could start by responding to my previous post, in so far as any advice I might offer is concerned anyway.

If you'd prefer me not to offer any help to you, just say so and I'll be happy to move on to others with my time.

Mrs. W...I think you have a good handle on this poster. Great posts to her.

Never said you were beating up Rain. Did not respaond to your post. Your post was last of the thread at that time. Just tagged my response to the whole thread onto yours.

Never said number of posts was important.
Never said you should not post.

My main point has been missed by you.

Many NEW BH's due to the closeness of their D day are unable to realize that they should be holding back some when they try to push a WW off the fence.

That Rain would be better sevred if the heavy pushing was done by the MB WW's.

I concur. (of course)

I will further it and say that I have heard the same doubts you express, Rain, from my own husband.

If he can pull his bootstraps up, so can you.

But again, it's YOUR choice.

Hi Rain,

Do you want this marriage?

If you are uncertain that is o.k. For the sake of argument let's just say that you don't know. O.K.?

If you want to get to a better place, one way is to try to meet the needs of your partner. You've stated that all your husband wants is sex and for now you are not willing to give that. What are his other emotional needs? Do you know? As a guy, I would guess that it could be admiration, recreational companionship, probably honesty. Would you be willing to work on any of those?

Look, I know what it feels like to be done with a marriage. Really I do. I would have been divorced if it wasn't for my wife doing some radical changes. But, I told my wife that. I made it clear that I was thinking of divorcing. That I talked to a lawyer.

We decided to give it one last try. Both of us wanted to, probably (we thought at the time) to keep the kid's family intact.

Marriage Builders isn't about saving all marriages. It is about giving couples tools that MAY help them reconnect.

Look, feelings change. The excitement you feel with the OM is real, but you know you probably felt these things with other men before your marriage. You probably even felt them with your husband. The point is a feeling is just that, and it is impermanent.

Any relationship you have is going to have disappointments. I think it is how we handle them that matters.

Finally, use the ignore feature if certain posters aren’t helpful to you. Use it judiciously though . . . you just might be missing something of value because you don’t like someone’s tone.

CN