Do you think that I should freak out over one text message or wait to see if the "conversation" continues? My sister said that I should wait because this might be another woman pursuing him and that he may not respond or follow up on it. He's been gone for a week now (to Normandy) and we've been talking and texting everyday. I've been keeping the conversations light and fun to try to get our lines of communication back open. I think that our main problem is the fact that our communication shut down when Matt died and my husband has somehow forgotten who I really am....the person who loves him unconditionally. He's made several comments that he thinks I'm judging him. But, I'm not. I think that comes from miscommunication. He may take something I say out of context and, instead of talking about it or asking me to clarify, may just assume that I meant something completely different. My husband is a good man - just a man in turmoil. I think he is trying to deny himself happiness. He said to me that he was happy before we moved to Italy - but, that it wasn't him. I think that's a load of crap and that he is just saying that because he thinks that he does not deserve to be happy. This stems from how he was raised - I thank his mother for this. Sorry to ramble. I just did not sleep well last night and needed to vent. Thanks for listening.

Andi

I would suggest you implement Plan A and continue to snoop. If there's nothing going on, then no problem, if there is something going on and you confront him about it now you risk driving the A further underground, which could cost you months in terms of finding out the truth.

The only downside is that if you caught this in the very beginning and in hesitating are allowing the A to progress, but if he's already at the ILYBNILWY stage, I suspect that the A is already in full swing. I know my Ws A was by the time she spoke those words to me.

Tyk,

So...I was talking to a guy friend of mine here who kind of understands what (we think) my husband is going through. He seems to think that my husband is thinking that the grass might be greener on the other side of the fence and that he is "testing it out" to see how it feels. What? So - if that is the case...what the heck am I supposed to do? I don't see how throwing my husband out could even be a step in the right direction. I don't think our marriage is at the end. I think we can save it. But - what should I do? How much should I put up with before I look like a fool?

Andi

I have to agree that the whole "I love you but I'm not in love with you" thing is the first sign of an affair as I have had to hear it myself. That being said, it may only (rolls eyes) be emotional at this point. You need to read His Needs, Her Needs, asap. Read it with him and commit to it's teachings. Snoop but be sneaky about it and if you find anything don't confront him until you are back in logical thinking mode. Emotions can be your enemy, don't let them guide your decisions.

At the same time, the loss of his friend may be the only culprit. There may not be an affair at all. Either way, that book is helping me and my WW immensely and I only wish I had found it sooner. Good luck and keep posting.

Apparntly you have 2 threads going at the same time
You should choose one and stick to it, that way people get a better idea of what has happened so far.

Let me say this much though - "doing something" does not mean freaking out about a text, or kicking him out, or filing for a D.
There are other choices.

When you are in a calm mood, simply say "H, I love you. I trust you. I look forward to growing old with you. But I am very uncomfortable with you receiving a text from some other women. Out of respect for me, and our M, I am asking you to please stop all contact with this woman."

When your H gives you that garbage about ILYB... you need to look him in the eye, and calmly say " that is a very hurtful thing to say to me, your wife. I am very sorry to hear that. I love you, and I am committed to our M. If there is something that is bothering you, please say so, and we can work out a solution together. If we need couseling, then lets get started. I want to be happily married, and I know you do too. So lets get started. If you do not want to work with me, to build a better life together, then please tell me what yoru suggestion is" And then be quiet. Let him speak next.

Woman of Faith,

Thank you for that advice. Yes, I have two threads going right now. Not to be confusing...just I started one a while ago and then started another with another question. So - I thought that since different people were answering the two respective threads that I should update them both. Sorry for any confusion.

Andi

I am sorry you are here.

There are too many red flags in there.

Who's this friend telling you your husband is "testing the waters" or thinking it's "greener on the other side" ? Woman? Man? Why is she saying it?

Don't tell your H anything about the txt message, it will make it much harder for you to find what's really gong on.
He will deny, tell you any kind of lame excuse for it.

Keep snooping. Everything, phone records, Credit card bills, computer, mail, etc.

Carefull with the friends you are confiding or asking questions, male friends will eventually tell your H you are suspicious.

Be strong.


PS; My H never told me the ILYBNILWY but he was depressed, because of work, and his depression was the excuse for everything, and it just served him right, since he was so sad and depressed I became in charge of everything, house, kids. He had more time for his Affairs.
I asked about "suspicious mails" and txt messages, I got the lies, after two years I finally had proof... and his depression was just his guilt feelings for his first EA followed by two PA's with different women.

We are two and a half years after DDay... still not recovered.


Again, Be strong! Yes during those two years I lost all my confidence and self-esteem... I became to think I was a "stupid" insecure jealous wife because I was suspecting and snooping on such a nice husband. So snoop.

And I really wish you'll feel silly when you find your H is clean... but I doubt it.

Ohh one last thing.

It's good to have friends to talk to, but, believe me, people here in MB are really good, and give you very, very wise advice.
They really know what they are talking about, and they really care.


I wished I had listen to them more carefully and followed all their advise... I would be at a much better place now.

Lost Willow,

Thank you for posting. I'm beginning to feel like you did - like an insecure jealous wife. That's why I try to rationalize things. I don't want to jump the gun and be accusatory. I want to give my husband the benefit of the doubt. But...it's wearing me down. I just want to shake him and make him talk. He's trying to sort everything out in his head and on his own. I don't think he realizes how much turmoil this puts me in. I'm beginning to think he's being selfish. I know he's being selfish with his emotions. But, as far as WE go, I feel like he does not want to tell me things because he does not want to hurt my feelings. I'm frustrated. Plus, the thing that worries me the most is our 12 year old daughter. I don't want her to know what's going on...but, she's not dumb either. So, I'm dealing with that as well. These trials in life can really wear a person down.

Andi

Many WSs use the BSs insecurities (insecurities created in large part BY the WS) to thier advantage.

If they can make the BS believe that thier feelings of doubt are out of line, it serves the interests of the A. Its called gaslighting, and it is a very subtle and cruel form of manipulation. My WW was a master of this. So good at it that she bought herself months of time for her A while I puttered about feeling miserable and doubting my own judgement.

After I found MB and some of these folks explained the way As work and showed me the proper way to execute a plan, my situation began to improve. I was very much like you when I arrived here, full of doubt and second guessing everything. If you care to and have time you could read the first few pages of my pre Dday thread, I think you will see some of yourself in my situation.

You need to try to step back, look at what you REALLY believe is happening, look at why you believe it, and look at why you are not trusting your judgement. Learn about gaslighting and I think you will learn how to recognize it when it is being served to you and how to counter it.

Have you discovered anything new in your snooping?

Tyk,

I see your point. I will read your thread later on today. My snooping has shown me that he is texting and calling this other woman. I don't know the content of their conversations because the messages are deleted. You know, I want to give him the benefit of the doubt. I don't necessarily think anything sexual is going on. But - I do know that this is how it starts. A friend said that he might just be "testing the waters." I'm ready to stand up for myself. It's just a scary place to be. I hope the road turns and not ends.

Andi

Hon,

Wake up and smell the homus. Denial ain't just a river in Egypt.

Might not be a PA (Phisical Affair) yet but most certainly it's an EA (Emotional Affair), in any case he's cheating and getting away from you and your M. There isn't much difference is it? For me EA is even worst then a ONS.

1. PLAN A
2. Bring him back to the M, and the family.

Be strong.

Follow the experts advise, I sure they know better what to do at this point.

From my experience, "confront" him ONLY when you have proof he cant deny.

I had a talk with my husband last night about where he thinks we are headed. I did not mention my suspicion or the messages on his phone. I asked him why he is unhappy and he said that he does not know. I spoke with a counselor locally and she said that he has classic signs of depression: hates his job, has no desire to do anything, has a "what's the point" outlook...and, I know that straying is part of depression as well. Believe me, I'm not trying to justify anything here - just saying that I feel like I'm in a delicate situation here. Because, of course, I don't talk about the good things that happen here - just the things that fill me full of anxiety. Since my husband is in the military, we have a very structured life. He's home with me every evening after work. He spends lunch with me every day. We still hang out and have a good time. He does not go out with friends - that was just the one time. The counselor and my friend who just went through something similar last year (death of his friend in Iraq) seem to think he's depressed. Once again - not justifying the behavior. Just approaching it from a different angle. I'm still keeping my eyes and ears open. But, at the same time, I'm being loving and supportive while NOT taking any crap. Last night, I was assertive and told my husband that I have not been judging him, that I love him and that I am not going anywhere. I reminded him that WE are in this together. That he has a wife and a daughter that he needs to think about - it's not just Him and Me. I really have faith that we can pull this out. I just need good coaching to help me through the anxiety. I have also talked with people who mentor him at work. These are people I can trust - people who are higher in rank than my husband. They are keeping an eye on him and trying to mentor him and show him the right path. I really appreciate all of the advice from everyone here and hope it keeps coming. Thank you for listening.

Andi

I went into my husband's email this afternoon and found a string of messages from a girl he met while in Germany for 3 weeks. Not good. Flirty. Talking about the fun they had and how it would be nice to run into each other again. Not good. OK - she is in the States and we live in Italy. So, the chances of them meeting are slim to none. This is emotional. So...after the text messaging from other girls - this was the last straw. I confronted him about it. I confronted him about the text messages. Once again...he does not want to talk. He does not care about anything right now. Says that I am a nosy b**ch who just wants to be involved in all of his stuff. That I have no faith in him. I did not take it. I told him that I HAVE trusted him and that I have faith in him - but that lately, his actions have given me a reason to doubt. He thinks I'm out to get him. I don't know why. All I have ever done is everything he's wanted. So - when he did not want to talk anymore - I told him that he should pack a bag and go to our friends house. If being at home is so horrible that he should go there to think things over. Well, he left (without a bag) and went to a BBQ that we had been invited to. He stayed there for a beer and then left. Now - he's been gone for hours. I hope he is thinking about our life and our marriage and that he comes home ready to talk. I appreciate the advice about gaslighting. I researched it and it makes complete sense. Have any of you gone through this and come out the other side still married? I don't want my marriage to be over. I love my husband and just want things to be normal again.

Thanks for listening...

Andi

i advise you not to open the subject and do not talk to him at all till he comes to you also do not let him leave the house.if he leaves the house he is vulnerable he will throw himself in any womans' arms,try to find someone who is close to both of you and let him talk to him.

My husband is still not home. He's also not at our friend's house (who offered the room and to help mediate our conversation, if needed.) He's been gone since 3PM yesterday and now it's 7AM. I'm scared and wish I knew that he was ok. When he comes home, should I try to start talking again? Or - should I see how he acts?

Andi

Your husband has been text messaging women, confiding in the widow, exchanging numbers with strippers, and you want to give him the benefit of the doubt???????

He is gaslighting you and intimidating you.

It is always a mistake to give an ultimatum. You need to wake up and start paying attention to the things here and get a plan.

When he comes home (and he will), let him know that there is no room for 3 or 4 in your marriage. Also I would check and see if the widow is home alone.

The widow is not the issue. She is family. She is helping me. It's the other crap. I did research gaslighting - not letting that happen again. Just waiting for my husband to see where we will go from here.

((Andigirl))

You have already been given some great guidance by some really experienced folks around here...just wanted to add that your H and your sitch has some similarities to mine.

A few months before my H's EA, he lost a very close friend, someone he had been best friends with since childhood, to suicide. He didn't deal with it very well. Also like your H...wasn't able to talk to me much about it, etc. I believe this put him on a path to a MLC which made him vulnerable to having an EA. (and yes, I also got the ILYBINILWY speech)

Also like your H, while he was engaged in his EA, he fooled around with a second OW...even though now he says he really doesn't know why he did it, wasn't interested in her, wasn't very attracted to her. He says he was foggy, and it is hard for him to believe he was able to do these things.

I have learned here it is very common for foggy WSs to act very uncharacteristically. To name a few others, my H became very disconnected from his children, went out to bars, etc.

Also your knee-jerk reaction to your H's behavior is similar to mine, fight and try to convince him that he is making a mistake, etc, and if that doesn't work, kick him out. I kicked my H out and thanks to the advice I found after coming here(thank goodness for MB), I asked him to come back.

I learned here about Lovebusters and ENs and what I had done to contribute to the weakened state of our marriage and I learned about Plan A. I had my Plan A list, and I had to look at it several times throughout the day to keep me sane and to prevent me from bringing up relationship talk (it's not really going to help you at this point).

It saved me and my marriage. My H now thanks me for doing Plan A. He said if I had yelled at him or tried to "talk" him into saving our M, it would have pushed him further away.

IMO, you need to face the fact that your H is engaged in an EA/PA. The other activity is a byproduct(s) of the EA/PA. An EA is just as destructive as a PA and the behavior of the WS isn't really any different so please don't kid yourself it is just TMs and phone calls. My H started TM and calling a coworker(OW) to help her w/ her personal problem and within a few short weeks turned into a fogged out alien who wanted nothing to do with his family.

You need to go to the Just Found Out section of the Infidelity Forum and read through the "For Newly BS" thread. All the things they talk about there, snooping, exposure, Plan A, it all applies to you.

So many great folks here to help you with Plan A. Do you want help with Plan A?

Important Note: Please, please avoid trying to "convince" your H of anything right now. It is going to get you nowhere while he is fogged out.

Hang in there.