Triggers are nasty little buggers, aren't they?

I think you handled it really well. And yes, it sounds like you were clear about your needs. I think it may give me a suggestion for my H with regard to TMs.

Why don't you call your H and tell him that you love him? My H and I play a game where we try to be the first person to tell the other one "I love you because..." It's kind of corny, but it keeps us connected. Your H will appreciate it.

Hi TBP-

Been reading along and had a few thoughts for you:

I'm not sure what a TM is... is that like an instant message? I'm gonna assume that for the rest of my post... if its not like an instant message, then I guess the rest of this might not make sense

I agree that 100% O&H is the best policy, of course. And if he KNEW that the HB message was going to upset you if you found it (and you said he admitted this)-- then not telling you was wrong.

So, if TM is like an instant message, presumably she would have to know his "screen name" in order to message him that-- correct? My next question is-- WHY does she have his screen name? She really shouldn't need it, unless they use this TMing for work related purposes (I know my H's previous company did... I hated it...). So, he should change his screen name in that case, and give it ONLY to male friends. Any female co-workers that should ask for it should just be told that "out of respect for his wife, he doesn't chat online with other women".

If he has to have the program for work, then I'd give him a bit of a break. On your birthday, esp. if it is advertised in the office-- people say happy birthday. It is almost like saying "bless you!" when someone sneezes-- if you know its their birthday, that is! Now, if that was a window for further conversation (which you didn't mention)-- then Houston, we've got a problem.

But if all that was said was "Happy birthday FWH" and he either A. didn't reply -or- B. only replied with "thank you" or something to the effect of that-- then I'd let it go.

He DOES need to understand EXACTLY what you expect in the O&H part though. I think you said before ALL emails, phone calls, and TMs that aren't work related. That's a good start. But I think that maybe on a birthday, a "happy birthday" wish is just a pleasantry, and as long as the conversation is only "happy birthday" and "thank you"-- its nothing to worry about.

Again, there's no reason this woman needs your H's screen name though-- unless it is necessary for work. If its not, I'd request he changes the screen name and gives it only to males and family members.

E.

HTM, thanks for the vote of confidence

I think I will do something special like that tonight when I see him...but he forgot his cell and that's the only way to reach him this afternoon!

Saw that you have an appt next week. Did you get an end of the day appt with Jennifer? I'm going to try to do that sometime next week...just got to touch base with H before I set it.

E,

Thanks for taking the time to reply.

To answer your question, TM is like an IM but on his cell phone. He and his coworkers have to communicate by cell phone cuz of the nature of the job so that's why she had his cell phone number on her phone.

I agree with you about giving him a break as a HB can been seen as just a pleasantry.

With the two flirty emails, not telling me about them and the fact that I know he is overly friendly and chatty...combined with the fact that he feels he is NOT at risk AT ALL for another A...just got me very concerned lately...

Agreed, agreed TBP. I see the emails as a MUCH MUCH more big transgression than the happy birthday wish.

TM-- text message. Duh. Wow, I left my brain at home this morning. I text message my husband all the time.

The point is, after those emails, he should be taking those EXTRAORDINARY PRECAUTIONS. He may have thought the happy birthday wish was no big deal (and probably wasn't)-- but, just to PROVE that he's LEARNED from his email mistakes, he should have told you! He might have felt it was "over the top"-- but that's what extraordinary precautions are. Things that feel over the top to "prove" you've "got it".

With those emails, I'd be a little concerned he doesn't "get it" either.

You've been clear with your boundaries for these types of things-- now what are your consequences?

So, you had him email the one girl that first emailed him. That's good. What are your consequences if this email/TM behavior continues? Remember, boundaries are just wishes without consequences to follow them up.

E.

Well, he did email the second girl similar to the first girl. The boundary put in place there was with any further emails that he would tell me about it, we would discuss it and send an email together.

To be honest, I would like to reign in the behavior (ie overly-friendly, chatty) that is eliciting these emails to begin with... This is the grey area. My H does not believe he did anything "wrong" and it is just craziness that these two girls would have emailed him in this way...

In response, I have let him know I think he is overly chatty and friendly, that this is not exercising EPs and that it will eventually lead to a problem.

I guess my boundary here was that since we are not on the same wavlength re EPs that we should work with the Harleys. He was fine with that. I am very curious to hear what they will tell him, and I am very curious to hear his responses.

Any other suggestions?

Hey TBP--

Sounds like you are on the right track, and counseling with the Harley's will help both of you establish boundaries in your M!

I've counseled with Jennifer before, and it was very useful.

Good luck, and let us know how it goes!

E.

That has been an issue for me too. How do you help your H understand what is "too chatty" when he doesn't see anything wrong with it because he has no bad intentions? Mine just doesn't get it. He goes black and white on me when I bring it up and says then we'll move to the middle of nowhere and he'll telecommute so that he never is too chatty with another woman again.

It's tough to set up EPs when one person doesn't understand the boundaries that need to be in place or when they are crossing them. I have had to just let H know as we go when he crosses a line...then he reigns it in.

I think the idea of no TM and no email to other women outside of strictly business is a good policy. My H still has trouble with this one. I get that it's easy to have friends in an office, but sometimes we have to purposefully distance ourselves even if it feels foreign at first. If recovery matters, it CAN be enough of a priority to change habits.

I just finished a conversation with H about omitting parts of his day. I told him that I can't ask every question in the world every day, so he just needs to make sure he shares everything that is important with me. He said that he doesn't know what is important to tell me and what isn't. How do I help him to know the differences in the gray areas?

I'm right there with you girlfriend.

HTM

Hi TBP,

Just want to throw my two cents into the ring as an outsider that doesn't know your sitch. Starting with the first email, yes it is absolutely possible to receive such an unsolicited email in the workplace these days. I think both men and women can be pretty brazen when they want something/one, as you can tell by the size of the discussion boards here. If rejected, they can always say "Oh, no! I didn't mean it like that!"

But - two? Hmmmm. Funny enough, I really don't like the text message the most. To me that is very personal. When I think about ways I would send birthday wishes to a coworker, texting would be last if I wanted to keep it professional.

Is your husband a doctor or something? Seems like he has women falling all over him. If he has already lapsed before, this would send me over the edge. You can't babysit him the rest of your marriage and you can't always intercept these messages.

Lastly, you mentioned something about a coworker he is working with today. And he "forgot" his cell phone and you have not heard from him. Look at all the ways these other women have to reach him, but he can't reach you because he "forgot" his cell? I'm sorry, I think I'm stirring the pot here but I've seen and heard too much.

Good luck.

HTM, I really think working with the Harleys will help your H and mine as well. WhoMe told me early in my R that her H had a big problem with boundaries, socializing with women and that he wouldn't have "gotten" it w/out working with Jennifer so I am really keeping my fingers crossed.

At the very least, I will know we did everything possible to learn about protecting our M...what my H does with what he learns will be out of my hands but I think I will find some comfort in that he was "educated" by the best...

Thanks, Shattered, for taking the time to share your thoughts

It's hard to explain but TM and cell calls are very common in the realm of what my H does since they are out of the office frequently...but otherwise I really do understand what you're saying about the TM seeming very personal. So I am OK with the HB through text but I really hope I don't see anything else non-work-related.

He did end up calling me two times later, in the afternoon and the evening. This morning, he laid out his entire day yesterday for me and I could understand why he wasn't able to call until then.

He isn't a doctor but he does have a job where he is admired(specialized, not too many in the state, recieves some publicity). Since admiration seems to be one of his highest ENs, that's part of what has me so anxious. Here he is, he works with A LOT of women, people are coming up to him, asking him about his job and admiring him. (If you met him, you wouldn't think he's the type girls would fall all over, but people are drawn to him...he's very engaging and charming and makes people laugh)

Part of the reason I believe he had his two other EAs was the two younger girls(20s) "looked" up to him and it made him feel really special. If you ask him, he doesn't understand why he was attracted to them as they are not so attractive or special, but I know it was due in great part to his EN of admiration.

Believe me, the last couple of weeks have been really hard on me and I told my H I was feeling weary and that I didn't think we had what it takes to R. Not only did I find the emails but he started to get angry at me for not trusting him. Anyway, I am hopeful that coaching with Jennifer helps us through all this.

Feel free to share any more thoughts...

It's interesting to listen to your emotions. I almost WISH I had those feelings. I always feel like somehow I'M the one who has to work hard to make this M work...that H is the one getting weary.

I know that's messed up. But I would LOVE to just feel like I could just give him the burden for awhile.