Mrs. W --

You knocked that one out of the park!!!

Rain --

She is so right! Happiness comes from living right. Happiness comes from feeling good about yourself. From doing good things.

Right now your happiness is falsely coming from the admiration and attention you are getting from OM. Its not real. Its only propping you up. Its not a true foundation!

Believe me, I thought I was head over heels for OM. (I cringe to look back on that.) Give yourself some space and distance from OM. Believe me, you will never find happiness until you do that.

For the record Rain, I am not with EITHER my BH or OM.
I am on my own....and happy. But I have many regrets about what I did.

Oh Rain -- my heart goes out to you.


Humble yourself. Just lose those thoughts of looking stupid or how you look to others. What others think does not matter.

Forgive yourself. Give yourself permission to start over. Clean slate.

Forgive your husband.

Live your life in a way that represents your values. Simply stop making bad choices.

Are you willing to let go of OM?
You won't see what is really possible for yourself until you do.

Rain

Sometimes when people look at the big picture they can't see what's right.
Sometimes looking at the details helps one to see clearly and make the right decision.
Sometimes people though get hung up on to many details and lose sight of what is right.
Sometimes it's best to ignore the static and focus on a key issue.

It's not about whether you divorce BH or recover your marriage.
It's not about whether your OM is your soul mate.

I think that you Rain are looking for reason after reason why you should leave your husband. OM is better. BH has not met needs. I could not forgive BH if he did what I did to him. Which is only self justifying your past decisions.

Your key issue is:

It's about decisions that you have made.

You broke your vows and brought a third person into your marriage.

Bringing in the third person, the OM, has forced you to feel torn because you have divided your loyalties between your BH and the OM.

Your decision to have an affair has caused you to not be able to think in a clear and unbiased manner.

Your decision to have an affair was not about you because it has effected your BH and child as well.

You must look at what is right for all three of you when you make a decision.

Rain you promised to be a wife. How can you honestly work on that promise and make an honest attempt if you have an OM waiting in the wings?

Rain you promised to be a mom. How can you honestly work on keeping the family together when the OM is siphoning off your love, time, and energy from your child?

Decisions:

You were right to not feel happy in your marriage, because that was the way you felt.

You were not right to replace BH until you had divorced him first.

The OM has no right to feel hurt if you dump him. Why? His decision to date a woman that was not available to him. Because she was married.

You need to go NC so you will not be torn in two directions.
Then you can be honest with everyone. By being able to be honest you then can make clear and unbiased decisions.

Many a couple have started a successful recovery here when the only reason was to give it a shot for the children. You and BH were connected before. That is no guarantee but a good indicator of success.

What ever decisions you make from here on need to be honest decisions. Being that you got involved with an OM when you were not free necessitates that he is not factored in.

I anger you because I told your H to divorce you? I have noticed that the people who come here and say 'oh poor rain, it must be really tough to be you' get fabulous! responses from you, whereas the people who ask you to analyze your actions are disliked, at best. Frankly, at this point, based on your self-justification and lashing out, I think your husband should divorce you. But he says he wants to try; so I come here and try to ask you the hard questions, the ones you won't even approach, but deflect every time they're asked.

I'm not doing this for fun. I'm doing it because I hate to see someone in pain - you OR your husband. He sees his solution - you. You, on the other hand, exhibit some pretty tremendous personal problems that obviously have never been dealt with all your life. And if you continue to deflect that aspect of your life, I will continue to advise him to divorce you, because you are showing no inclination for real humility, the number one ingredient you need to heal. Thus you will only bring more devastation, the next time you gamble away his life savings or find yet another 'more interesting' man or find yet another addiction to bury yourself in.

You think I'm harsh? You should count your blessings stella hasn't found this thread! Seriously, though, I am harsh because I ask you to be honest? Hardly.

Again, this isn't about you being 'happy.' It's about you growing up and realizing that you will NOT be happy all the time. There will be times when you have to sacrifice for your children. When you have to go to your husband's business dinner party when you hate all the people. When you give up the exercise class because your child's baseball games are at the same time. When there's only enough ice cream left for one person, and you give it to your husband because you love him.

Everything you have said is the voice of a person who seems to think that achieving happiness is everyone's ultimate goal. Obviously, that has been YOUR agenda since you married your husband, at least, and probably before that. But it's not. Living a life that is based on integrity, honor, commitment, love, helpfulness - basically leaving the earth a better place for having lived here - is what life is about. I don't know what happened in your childhood that made you such a high-seeker, but it is a destructive path, as you well know by now.


Yet you never answered anyone about whether you will continue to remove him from your life. In fact, you started out asking which one you should 'keep.'

Your fog is coming out as you type. Of course you don't see it - you're living it. But think about it. If every person here sees it but you, don't you think that the 99 people out of 100 are probably seeing it correctly, and that one is missing something?

Final thought, as to whether it's not 'about you' any more now that you have a child. All I can guess is that this is the example your parents set for you, but that example also led you to practically destroy your husband's life. Do you honestly think it's a valid one? Maybe you should do some rethinking about what your values are, and whether they are worth keeping or are in need of a tune-up. Ask any woman you know if they made ajustments when they became a mother because their child's well-being suddenly became more important than their own. It might surprise you to find yourself in the minority.

And your happiness is of your own making. You can continue to be selfish and see life as a vehicle to give you happiness - at other people's expense, or you can grow up and see that you have responsibilities and moral requirements that don't always add up to what you get out of things. If you were to reach that, you would be happy; not about your husband.

Everyone else, this isn't about her fog babble, It's about her code of ethics for her personal self; her belief system on what she deserves and what she's allowed to do, to get it. If it weren't this OM, it would be another one, or starting up gambling again. Or drinking. Or internet games. Or drugs. Escape is what it's all about.

I still see a lot of ppl telling you that you must establish NC.

I think I read somewhere here and on your H's thread that you have made the decision to do this.

So, lets clear this up. Have you established NC? Did you write a NC letter approved by your H??

There are some very good examples of a proper NC letter on this site (someone please drop a link, I'm new and not very good at finding things) IMO, you NEED to do this so that you can begin to work on YOU without distraction.

Then you will be able to decide where to go from there, but for now, like everyone is saying. NC is imperative and neccassary before anything else can even be considered.

No lie.

kewl, this is what she said:

Rain, you really are full of disrespectful judgments whether or not you realize it. No "2x4's," no "preaching" to you. I asked a question and your first sentence would have been enough. You make the very same sort of judgment regarding your husband...and it's all from your perspective and for your benefit.

That's an observation from reading all that you have written, not a "2x4." It's a fact that is "on display" to those of us who have faced infidelity and have "made it through" despite the emotional stresses and devastation.




"Truth" is an interesting thing. What you are referring to here is nothing more than being honest about your feelings. "Truth" is what you perceive AND what you want to "accept" in order to rationalize and/or justify what you choose to do. In other words, you can "make" truth be whatever you want it to be even if what is TRUE is the exact opposite of what you want to be "your truth."

"Love" on the other hand, is about CHOICE, about ACTION, regardless of what you might be feeling.


"Truth is, I don't know if I want help with my marriage at this point or not."

Of course you don't know if you want help with your marriage "at this point." You already decided you didn't want your marriage and you rationalized, as you are still doing, the "reasons" to support your not having to CHOOSE.


"I want help in helping understand why this is happening to me"

There is no need for "help" in this area. It is happening because you CHOSE this path. These "things" are consequences of making choices. ALL actions have consequences, either good consequences or bad consequences. So let me ask you a question, are your choices consistent with being a "good woman, a good wife, and a good mother?"


"why I would do such horrible things to such a wonderful man that loves me as much as he does."

WHY? Many reasons, all of which stem from a standpoint of selfishness and self-preeminence, to say nothing about Pride.

Why you chose do such things is because you WANTED to do them. You felt "entitled" to do them because you felt it was your "right" to get whatever perceived needs and feelings met by anyone, even if it wasn't your husband. "You deserved it," right? Once you started down that path of "me first," you found many ways to justify what you were doing and to rationalize that it was good for you and good for that "wonderful man" who loved the "faithful you" so much.

Now you continue to rationalize you behavior with trite phrases such as "he deserves better than me." Don't you think HE has the right to determine that for himself without you "choosing for him" just as you chose adultery without his consent and agreement?


Rain, I'm going to be blunt here. You have a marked lack of trust and are trying to "trust" the one person that you should know you CAN'T trust right now. That person is you.

So here's what I'd like to ask you; would you be willing to just simply DO what the Marriage Builders founders KNOW will give you and your husband the best chance at recovering your marriage and building one that WILL meet all of your, and your husband's, needs and create a better, stronger, marriage than you had before, perhaps even the sort of marriage you secretly "wish for?"

There is nothing stopping you or your husband from getting a divorce "in the future" if your efforst "just don't work out." But here is very simple truth to apply to this attempt at recovering a marriage shattered by adultery: IF you DON'T follow a plan, regardless of how you are feeling now, you will be sure to hit the target of failure.

What, exactly, do you have to lose by trying the Plan, sincerely trying the Plan, working at it, until "feelings" DO inexorably follow actions?

cat,
thx for clearing that up, this is such an active thread its hard to keep up sometimes.

Rain,
Please consider what I have said. Establish NC for YOURSELF! Not just because the OM thinks thats whats best for now. Don't let him decide for you.

Hello Rain,

I see you are back. Sorry my work took me away for a few days but I see that everyone has been having lots of "fun" given that we are on page 13???? or so. I have not read the whole thread, just the last few pages, but I am sure the usual suspects showed up to give you a 2x4 or two. Anger is a bad thing, right??

Notice you are in a bit of pain, and I am guessing if the truth be known you have been for more than a few years. I also notice that you want happiness. No guarentees on that one, we are only guarenteed the "pursuit of happiness" you know.

So how has the "pursuit of happiness" been working for you? Not so well it would seem.

Perhaps you are pursuing it in the wrong way. Are you interested in considering other ways??

If so, let me know. I have some ideas that might work. They will take time, some guts, and perhaps a new perspective on the concept of "happiness", but the results might be just what you are looking for.

You have actually been getting great advice, but what little I have purused this thread, no one has sat you down and inquired what a "happy" life would look like to you. I would really be interested in hearing from you what brings you "happiness" and how you define it.

God Bless,

JL

rain:

I posted this link on another thread, but I want 2 post it here and on your H's thread as well, as it relates.

It's about how adults do marriage, and intelligently addresses many of the confusion and fears you each have (perhaps in different ways), probably better than anything I've read:

**edit** please confine advertising about competitive websites/services to the "Other Web Sites" forum here on Marriage Builders. Thank you. Revera

-ol' 2long

Wow...Ya think so? Thanks, I really appreciate your saying that Lexxxy! That post was just a few bits and pieces that I've picked up along the way...

I've done the "endless quest for happiness" thing to death, and I always came up short and wanting...I was quite famous for using the phrase, "I'll be happy when _____." I was always on a mission to "get there"...Completely oblivious to the fact that life was passing me by...that I was literally choosing not to be happy...Choosing not to enjoy the PRESENT in search of the greener pastures that I was sure lay just around the corner...I have quite the "addict mentality"...I'm all or nothing-An extremist...If I diet, I'm going ALL IN-it must be FAST-ALMOST INSTANT-self starvation-ten day fasts for example...Same with binge eating...or shopping to excess...or scarily enough, Xanax (all benzos actually)...I mean if one helps, then surely 6 must be better, right? I make jokes, but I know that it's no laughing matter...The affair was just an extension of all of my other unhealthy behaviors...just another "high"...I thought I'd found something no one else ever had...I'd discovered the FOUNTAIN OF YOUTH I tell ya! Was WAY cooler than pretty much EVERYBODY else...I did ALL those things believing that surely THIS TIME feeling good about me would last...

I'm reminded of a catch phrase used by an evangelist that I heard speak a few times in my teens...He said often, "You'll never find happiness in a bottle, pill or cheap thrill."...How very right he was...Thankfully, "the bottle" was never where I looked...drinking didn't "do it" for me, so that particular battle, I have been blessed not to have to face...

I wonder Rain, can you identify with anything that I've said here so far?

You know, I also needed people to prop me up...I lived for compliments...for outside validation...I depended on others to let me know that I was good enough...Without trying to sound boastful or conceited, I was blessed with being what many in society think of as "conventionally pretty"...Very early on my looks were focused on by others...I began to live for the approval of others...To make sure I continued to get those compliments I became obsessed with always looking a certain way...dressing just so...never a hair out of place...I never enjoyed myself though...I was always too busy worrying if I looked beautiful enough/had on the right outfit/the latest and greatest whatever...If I didn't receive as many compliments as usual, or God forbid, no compliments, that meant that I was UGLY, which, OMG, what would I do? I'd learned that my looks could be used as "currency" to get what I wanted, and I believed people liked me BECAUSE I looked or dressed a certain way...Surely no compliments meant that I was worthless...

By doing that, I put my self-worth in the hands of other people...Just as a compliment could send me soaring as high as the clouds, ANY perceived negative (real or imagined) would send me lower than pond scum...and of course the lows lasted much longer than the highs...I was at the mercy of friends, family and strangers...

I really and truly never understood that until I came here...I have MelodyLane to thank for the incredible life lesson that my opinion of me is what counts most...In order for me to have a good opinion of me though, I have to do honorable, admirable, moral things...I must DO good to FEEL good...(There was also a message given at our church that effected me profoundly where these issues are concerned)

Perhaps this seems elementary to so many people, but it wasn't to me...And I am starting to think that this is true for many waywards as well...

Rain? Identify with any of that stuff by chance?

You see Rain, it really doesn't matter if you change all the other players around you...It's YOUR attitude and overall approach to life that matters...You must understand that you will continue to have the VERY SAME PROBLEMS with ANYBODY else that you have now with your husband, unless and until you change YOU...It's a case of "wherever you go, there you are"...And Rain, you will not ever find a man that loves you in the way that your husband does...Look at all you've put him through, and there he stands with his hand still outstretched to you...That is NOT a twice in a lifetime thing...

And about this Rain...


Well kiddo, it's not just gonna magically happen on it's own...You've got to take ACTION...Start putting forth the effort...I'm gonna keep pounding this into you: YOUR FEELINGS WILL FOLLOW YOUR ACTIONS! It does NOT work the other way around Rain...You can't just sit there and wait for some "feeling" to overcome you...That will NOT happen...There will be no "magic awakening" of some kind without your getting off your butt and saying something to the effect of: "I chose to be married to 72Dude. I will choose to do the RIGHT thing by him and our son. I will act with integrity and honor the vows that I made. Here is my plan, I am going to meet 72Dude's needs. We are going to spend at least 15 hours per week together doing fun things. I will "fake it til I make it"...I fell in love with him before, so logic and reason tell me that by following the MB plans we can and will do that again." Rain you ACT...You DO what is RIGHT and GOOD, and you will FEEL RIGHT and GOOD...

If you take these steps and it turns out that I'm wrong, what have you lost? But what if I'm right? Can you imagine the gain? Your son grows up with an intact family and all of the advantages that affords him...You and 72Dude have a marriage that you never believed possible...Can you envision a life of true happiness? It's there for your taking Rain, all you have to do is CHOOSE it...

Okay and after this very long and winding ramble I will wrap things up with one last thing...

Yep...You guessed it, I am gonna hammer you about NO CONTACT with OM, because that MUST happen...You see, all this talk about you not wanting to do anything with your husband, well, DUH!!!!! You are WAYWARD...I've never seen an active wayward that wants to work on their marriage...that's laughable...You MUST take the action of getting rid of OM before any feelings to do what is right regarding your marriage will dance anywhere near your mind...

Will you write and send a no contact letter Rain? If so, when? I look forward to your answer to this most important question...

Hope something I've said helps...

Mrs. W

Another fantastic post, Mrs. W!!

Rain, Mrs. W is who I have to thank for bringing me out of the fog. Many other people here helped me and for all of them, I am forever thankful, but no one "got" me like she did/does. Please listen to her-she is DA BOMB DIGGIDY!!!!!!!

And, of course I agree with her 100%. If NC HAS truly been established, then you must send a NC letter and then get through WD. WD stinks, but after it passes, you WILL start to feel better. Hopefully, your husband will wait it out and be there for you when you wake up. If not, you are still going to have two choices: one is that you keep living life for yourself and never truly find happiness; or two, you do the hard work of finding what is it about YOU that needs to change. So, really, you may as well stay and do the work now and give your M a chance since it is the RIGHT thing to do. Nothing else really matters right now. Do the work NOW and see what happens.

NC and NC letter
Get through WD
Work on your addictive issues
Fake it till ya make it
Feelings follow actions...

These are the things Mrs. W told you. Please listen!

Rain, the purpose of my post was not just to share with you, but to also show and explain to you (also from my experience) that the OM you had the EA with did contribute hugely to your current marriage problems although you did not think so at first. (You originally said your marriage problems are not about the OM and this is very far from the truth.) Don't fool yourself into thinking that just becuase the Emotional Affair had not turn physical yet, that it was not so damaging/hurtfull to your H and M (and yourself). I know what I'm talking about because I've been there and done that... To some BS's the emotional aspect of an affair is more hurtfull and/or just as hurtfull as the phsyical aspect of an A.

In my previous post I said the first thing you need to do is to write the OM a NC letter (approved by you H and signed by both of you). I also provided you a link with steps to help you through withdrawal and help reconnecting with your H again. I know you’ve said that there is no contact between you and the OM, but its still important to write him the NC letter and explain in the letter that your Emotional Affair was very wrong and hurtful/damaging to your H and M and that he must never contact you again.

Did you or are you going to send the NC letter to OM, Rain?

Yes, I have already established NC with OM. I am finding it extremely difficult and realize that is really is like an addiction. We did not have a good weekend as I sure you have read on my H's thread. I cried all afternoon and was really wanting and needing to feel like everyhting is going to be ok. My H was really down and has been like that for a long time. It makes for really long weekends...no fun...no excitement....no romance....just a quiet lonely house. Makes it difficult for the both of us I guess.

I'm sorry you had a sucky weekend, Rain.

Your dh mentioned that he "might've" been depressed much of your marriage.

I DO know that depression releases chemicals in the brain, and if a person is depressed for a long period of time the brain "forgets" how to switch off those chemicals. Once a person reaches that point, it's really hard to "naturally" bounce back.

Do you think either one of you might need to talk to a medical doctor regarding this?

Just a thought.

I don't want to sound like a smarty pants, but he naturally a real "negative" person and it drives me nuts. By no fault of his own I guess because his family was kind of like that. He has always been that way. It was just easier to overlook in the earlier stages. As I mentioned in my very first post, he doesn't really find anything very exciting and hardly shows any interest really in anything. Not to say that he has not had reason to be, but it is just harder to realize the severity of it I guess due to his overall personality.

How did you establish NC?

Did you write a NC letter that was cold in tone. Stating what you and OM did was wrong. Must have NC. No good bye, best wishes, any warm colosing.

Was the letter shown to BH for his approval, and BH alowed to mail it?

You stated: "My H was really down and has been like that for a long time. It makes for really long weekends...no fun...no excitement....no romance....just a quiet lonely house. Makes it difficult for the both of us"

Sending this NC letter in the afore mentioned manner would give your BH a much needed morale boost.

If you check her husband's thread, you'll see that he's stated she has refused to send an NC letter, saying that a verbal one is enough.

Well gee Rain, do you think that your husband just might have a REASON to be negative right now?

You are on your SECOND affair AND you've gambled away large sums of the family money and put you guys into financial dire straits...

Rain, do you realize that adultery is ABUSE? That Dr. Harley likens it to RAPE or the DEATH OF A CHILD??? It's THAT serious...

It pains me greatly to see you come here and further abuse your victim by acting very flip about what you've done to him...He's lying there on the floor bleeding and you are here complaining that he is BORING??? C'MON!!! Where is your empathy gene Rain?

It's time for YOU to make some BIG changes Rain...

When are you WRITING OM A NC LETTER? It is NOT enough that he has told you that you shouldn't be in contact until you decide what to do about your marriage...NO, that will NOT cut it...You must write him a letter that 72Dude approves and sends...It must tell OM that you NEVER want to see or talk to him for the REST OF YOUR LIFE...That what the two of you did was HORRIBLE and incredibly disrespectful and hurtful to your husband...When will you do THAT Rain?

Mrs. W