My situation seems a little different than most of the other affairs. My wife of 13 years was lonely because I had to work so many hours and would do others things w/out her during my free time. I ride dirt bikes, camp, fish, etc. I always thought I would be the one to screw up. She was very lonely and an OLDER guy at work began talking to her on the cell phone after work. She loved talking to him because he would listen to her.(Unlike me) She was becoming distant from me at the time this all started, so I poured on the charm, to the extent of even surprising her w/ a BMW for Christmas last year. The affair continued and became physical over time. She says it was terrible. He had health problem(diabetes/heart), so it was nothing compared to what she was getting from me. She would be w/ me sexually constantly as the affair went on. She says it was just filling an emotional void, that is cured now that I had turned the corner. His wife found out due to phone records and they all work at the same company.(NOT SMART!) She was leaving anyway in June as we paid our house off and she was to stay home with the kids. Now that time has passed, she realizes how foolish it was and that this guy was not someone she'd ever be with!!(You think!) Here is the problem/question: I'm 37, highly educated professional, fit/attractive guy who gets flirted w/ from time to time at work. I would NEVER have done such a thing but am somewhat compelled to now. She knows this is a risk as her friends/family always make comments about how good looking I am. She has begged me numerous times to not go out and retaliate. The thing is, I don't think I want anyone else. She is my dream girl, but I can't get passed that she has been tainted by some old dude that was virtually impotent. Funny thing is, when she told me about the affair, she went right to the point of how lame the sex was as she was laughing. We actually had sex an hour or so after she confessed. This is a christian woman that everyone we know worships to death. Most can't even believe it. Our relationship has never be better(both sexually and emotionally), but the thoughts come to mind all the time. How long til it(the thoughts) goes away, and is my slight desire to retaliate valid/normal?

Thanks!
OgleCPA

Sorry to hear man Im in the same sitauation been about 2.5 months, same thing happened to my wife i didnt listen do nothing with her would go out to the bar, snowboard, fish, play computer games and much more without even asking her. Although mine tells me pretty much the same story yours has sex was plain your way better never wanted to leave me he would just liten when i would talk finally after awhile it got physical, so im giving her another chance"she seems truly remoresful".

The feelings for me are still there I think about it all the time but it doesnt really cause my gut to turn like it did for the first month, things get a little better each week but its slow and gonna take time. If you feel its the one you wanna love for the rest of your life I think its worth it to stick in it for the long haul.
I wouldnt try to get her back it has crossed my mind quite a bit but ya shes caused you the worst pain you probaly will ever have but if you love her would you want her to go threw that pain?

Did she cut off all contact with the OM? If not that needs to happen first before you can even try to recover from it.

Thanks for the support. Oh yeah, she has no contact. Apparently he was real controlling. She is SOOOOOO remorseful. I just sent her and the kids away for six weeks while I work it out in my head. She calls me ALL THE TIME! She's great and so is the relationship, but I still need to work thru some issues.

Welcome to MB, Ogle,


If you will read Harley's articles and the threads Infidelity forum, you'll find out that your WW's A wasn't different than most. Or read the threads on the EN forum where there are Walk Away Wives, and men who nearly lost their marriages, without infidelity, due to IBs. Which is why Harley made one of the rules of a great marriage the rule of time.

In your last post you said you sent her and the kids away for six weeks so you could think. Whoa. Did I read that right? Didn't sound that way in your first post.

You had no part of her A...she chose to do it, hide it, and now, her choice to walk the road to redemption for it. You were part of the pre-A half of the marriage...your half mattered as much as hers did...you had no part of her A.

Infidelity blows us away...you were blindly trusting...which is an LB, actually, because it's your own participation in fantasy...healthy trust comes from knowing either of you can choose differently today...meaning make incredibly harmful, destructive choices or more and more healthy ones.

Takes two years on the average to heal from an affair (unless it was a long-term affair--LTA). You're 2.5 months into discovery; your WW has gone No Contact (NC)...does that mean she wrote an NC letter and you both mailed it? Did you expose to OM's wife or GF? She's no longer employed at the same place, correct?

You've got a healthy jump, then, on recovery...up to you to continue to verify NC...even if she despises him now, he may contact her (make it difficult to do so by changing email, cell, however they contacted one another)...and the emotions from the A are the drug...the attention, admiration, appreciation--those are what you weren't giving your WW so they can still ignite those feelings.

I hear you saying you are now on board with not LBing your marriage through IBs, you're aware of the four rules of marriage and now following them...you guys are in weekly MC, is that correct?

Again...may be I'm not awake, but I can't see how this is possible if you sent her away for six weeks...or was that before now, maybe?

As for your temptation to have an A at work...you know this crushed pain into your heart...you wanna do that to your wife, your kids, another person's family, too? You want to walk that road of redemption for something you cannot undone, ever? Really?

Because, you see, you will be ugly, not good-looking if you do. You will lose your self-respect and the respect of your wife...just as she lost yours. You may lose your wife...for she may not be able to choose you, choose to stand for her marriage the way you did, because she already went through years of being last place (part of the allure of A's are the first-place feeling), you choosing someone over her on top of choosing money, material stuff, indepedent behaviors...really moves her down the list. Means you'd give up your marriage for a fantasy, really?

I believe you won't...I believe you'll take what you're learning about the rules of marriage--rule of TIME (most importantly), care, protection and radical honesty...and POJA with your WW, help her earn her "F" for FormerWW, and build a new marriage which may exceed your experience of happiness, thriving and real intimacy. You can do it.

New marital boundaries...healthy personal boundaries (where you eliminate your LBs and meet her ENs); for her, she dismantles the resentment she created and built, knocks apart her entitlement (and you yours), and injects respect...makes her code (personal boundaries) and predetermined, progressive enforcements...and follows Dr. Harley's rules for a great marriage...

Together, you learn how to forgive (it's a process, not an event) yourself, your partner and experience forgiveness from your partner (and she, you)...hers includes being forgiven by God, herself and you...and you guys will heal. Can't do it without all of these...we are new every day because we can make different choices every day...see your WW with new eyes, and yourself...see how you are half and she is half...inject respect for one another (not admiration, per se) to see you cannot be the cause, control or cure for her, nor she for you; yet together you guys are one union, so each of you being responsible for the cause, control and cure for yourselves matters greatly.

LA

I forgot to ask...did each of you get tested for STDs?

LA

As others have noted, your story is not so different than most. I'm only a couple months out from dday as well. Pretty similar story to yours.....lots of hobbies, fairly successful, good looking (been told that anyway), nice home, nice cars, thought if anyone was prone to an affair...it would be me, etc... I also turned on the charm and opened up to WW in a way that I had never before (when I was gaining suspicion of the A)...too little, too late.

I have found that a lot of the problem with my W was that all of the hobbies I have...guitar, martial arts, fly fishing, painting etc... only hindered W's confidence. Maybe you can work this angle a bit to find out if it is an issue with your W.

Anyway, I'm trying to R with my W, and like I have stated, you are not alone and your story is very similar to many here.

I'm sorry you find yourself here, and hope you find some helpful advice.

Retaliation is not the answer. Either you want to make it work or you don't. If you do, having an affiar of your own will only drive you and your wife farther apart. I am in a similar situation. Live in a small town so people know. I am not a bad looking woman and am intelligent. It makes me sick! The guys that think they can now proposition me because I might be thinking about retaliating. My morals tell me "NO" don't do it. Even though I think my cheating husband probably deserves to be hurt as much as he has hurt me.

I did send her away for six weeks. She quit her job and seems to be real happy w/ me now. Was the six weeks a mistake? I just wanted some time to think clearly. The MC said it should be ok. I think in the beginning it was a little punishment also, but not now. She calls me constantly and says she misses me SOOOOOO much. I miss her, but the pain is almost unbearable.

Ogle, the pain of separation is nearly unbearable?

Of the A?

I haven't encountered this before where a BH has sent away his repentant WW for six weeks with the MC saying that it should be okay.

We have lots of folks here with great advice. Maybe introvert or BobPure or another BH can hop in on this one.

What's your plan for recovery and where would six weeks without your wife or children at home fit into healing, addressing, uncovering all you need to know, to help you feel better? Especially when you're considering a revenge A?

Wouldn't that give you six weeks to have it?

LA

I had a slight inclination regarding retaliation. I said it was a concern, but I wouldn’t ever do that to her! No, I just felt like I needed to be alone for a while and sort all this out. Our relationship is great! I realized quite a while back what she needed. The problem is I need to gut check this situation and make sure I can get passed if its going to take 2+ years as others have said. Its hard for me to see my wife in the same light now as I once did. Her purity/innocence/naivety was what attracted me to her. Make sense?

Ogle,

I appreciate your honesty in sharing that a small part in the sending away (and you can't really send her away, she chose to agree to go away with the kids) was punishment. And your honesty in thinking about retaliation, too.

Where we allow our thoughts to go, usually is where our actions will go, too. Everyone is wired for an affair (Dr. Harley). Takes extraordinary precautions of our own weaknesses to not make that choice (which begins in thoughts of punishment and sorting stuff out alone, too).

First step is as you have done here, honesty. Have you told your WW already that in this period of separation that part was for punishment? Have you shared with her your thoughts of retaliation, what they were and where they were coming from inside you, not that you'd do them?

See had she also shared with you her thoughts, perceptions...then that honesty and intimacy would have been an act to protect her weaknesses, too.

I figured out the trigger in ME for feeling shock at your choice to send your family away for six weeks...often, a WS will say they need space to sort out their stuff, work it out by themselves. That's where my reaction to your action came from.

Are you able to verify NC is still in place with her away?

You won't know if you can get past this until you do. You have no certain outcomes...no human does. We commit to our goal to heal and thrive...to personally recover and our half of marital recovery...and then we'll know.

Six weeks won't tell you...two years might...and if you are depending on your emotions to lead you, then aren't you doing what your WW did? From her emotions determine her actions?

That's the backwards thinking of a wayward mind. We act and our feelings follow. We act from our beliefs, which is where our feelings come from...better for ourselves and our relationships to focus on the beliefs than react to our feelings.


You make sense. Be assured you do. Are you sayiing you weren't attracted to who she really was originally, only to what she didn't know, hadn't experienced?

LA

Two years, with a ww begging to keep the marriage going? With us both committed fully to restoration?(Being attentive, calling each other all the time, sex in overdrive) I can understand if there is hesitation, etc, but why two years if everyone(friends/family/spouses) are on board. The reason I ask is I don't think I could stand this for two years, shoot, two months has been an a$$ kick. She apologizes almost daily. I am building her up, we haven't said one cross work to each other. And the consensus is I have two more years of thoughts(crap) that I can not shake? I'm just trying to understand. If I can develop a quick fix(6 mo plan), sounds like I'll be RICH! OGLE

It doesnt take 2 years for everyone, Ive read some threads completly recovered and forgiven within a year, 2 years is just the average. But if you think about it whats 2 years, how many years have you already put in your marriage and do you think divorcing her is gonna make everything just go away, its the woman you love.
Ya the thoughts are there they are there for me but in the mean time while im going threw all these horrible thoughts im also making great ones of us that are overriding the bad ones of her with another man granite its only been 2 months since i found out. Someone on here said somthing to my wife that might help you a little, "Helping your WS to become a new and better person, and by doing that then you will be the only one who will ever be with the "new and improved" S. You can regain the exclusiveness if the WS truely does change, in the sense that the "old" WS was the person that the OM/OW had experienced and they will never experience the "new and improved" S." Well im new here dont really got much input but i hope that helps.

Two years to build a new marriage...to learn what you did not know before and put it into practice.

We connect through conflict...not having a cross word means not LBing...which is great. Not having conflict isn't healthy.

Knowing how to connect through conflict is huge...means instead of her taking and storing up her future resentment into entitlement...when she feels neglected, last place, overrun or run away from...that's a life skill...and she's had the habit longer than you've been married.

No, it's not two years of pain for you. You own your triggers and share them with her...she stays present while you check on NC (like her cell, for instance)...that's her understanding your triggers. You have to learn to share them, aloud, with ownership...and choose your thoughts...when images come, you have ten seconds to catch it in your mind and put it out of it...replace it with thoughts of your family, of your early years...that's your job and it takes practice.

She's got to know and own what she did, why she did it and why and how she won't do it again...shame and punishment does not stop resentment...may seem to at first, then the old cycle begins again. We all have unhealthy habits...in our thoughts, our expectations...and kicking those is what takes two years. Falling back into them is too easy--need your partner to be aware and there for you to say, "Hey, this feels old right now." We learn to help each other back into thriving when we veer off.

If you build her up, you, too, then can tear her down. She builds herself back up...beginning with O&H, sharing her thoughts and feelings...and being heard, understood and respected as separate and equal to you. Same rules for you, too.

You get what you pay for...and you can have the quickie cure...look at many threads here where one of the partners had an A, and years later, the other does...a world of hurt...even a decade or more apart...because one or the other didn't do their own personal recovery, or half of the marital recovery.

Didn't take two months to get you here...or even eight months of the A...took years, didn't it? You've got a fantastic beginning to recovery...so why the six weeks then? I still don't get that. I think I'm stuck on it.

You really do have a fantastic beginning--don't drop the ball. Read the books, get the counseling, do the exercises, see each other as new every day...for every day we choose to be married to our partner. As you've experienced, we can change that choice. Listen to know and speak to be known, 'k?

There are wonderful spots of intimacy, connection through shared pain, fear, joy and sadness...all parts of real healing. Don't do the quickie and find out two years from now YOUR resentment became entitlement and you're doing the unthinkable in your head, 'k?

Breaking your own LB habits is tough...and you do those together, too...each of you...alert the other to what you're working on and help one another. "Was that a DJ?" in a nice, non-accusatory way to catch sneaky assumptions and labeling.

There's no hesitation...after NC is firmly in place, there's withdrawal...sounds like your FWW got to the end of her A before discovery...she isn't pining for the fantasy of OM. That's terrific...she still is grieving her foggy choices, undoing her own integrity, her own self-respect. Only she can rebuild that and you can be there to notice, support and mind your own, too.

As rcipe said, the alternative is more crisis, heartache and pain...doesn't go away when you say, "Nope, I don't want to recover anymore." So going through recovery is really the only way. If you go around it, it will recur in ways you don't want to experience either, 'k?

I only share what I've experienced myself. The road can get hellaciously harder if you don't walk it.

LA

Makes complete sense to me. These attributes are the same reason that I dated, and eventually married my W. When we started dating, every person that knew her before I met her would tell me "you are a lucky man", or "take care of her, she is a great girl"...stuff like that. Don't hear any of those comments any more, that's for sure.

The "naivety" attribute is one that I have forced myself into looking at closer...it's the one that I thought was "cute" or "innocent", but it was eventually the attribute that was a major factor in WW driving a knife into my back. W is now taking steps (extraordinary precautions) to make sure that her "naivety" will not be a factor, as far as people outside of the marriage is concerned, from now on...
- no discussing personal/private matters with anyone besides myself.
- if someone pays her a compliment, she says "thank you", with no return compliments or continuance of the conversation.
.....etc.... (there is more, but just 2 examples of how she is practicing her EP's). The EP's that she is taking now are one's that she put together with Jennifer, during a phone session. I highly recommend that you and your W do phones sessions. MY W and I were not together when we did phone sessions...Jennifer did on with W, then did one with me the next day, so you and your W could probably arrange the same thing.


The "purity" one is a very big problem for me...I wish I could do more to help you with that one. I always told W that "she could have been passed around the football team's locker room, and it wouldn't matter to me...that's the past". Weird thing is, that every guy I know (she grew up in the town that we live in...I didn't) would always say how W always had a "high set of standards" and "she's not that kind of girl". So, her "purity" was something that I've always respected.....not any more. To go from being the guy other guys were jealous of, to the poor sucker that's married to a morally corrupt cheater, is a very hard thing to deal with.

I have a very hard time looking W in the eye sometimes (when triggered). If you have the same problem, and if it's caused by images of the PA (like mine arew), then I have a technique that I have learned through some literature...

-Concentrate on the image in your head
-Make sure the image is bold and colorful
-Slowly drain the color out of the image, until it is black and white
-When the image is black and white, slowly move the image further and further away until it is 1/2 the size.
-Then, blur the image so it is nothing but a black, white, grey mess.
-Then, move the image further away until it is nothing but a little black dot.
-Then, make the image vanish.

Do this technique whenever you have images. It is hard at first because (if you are like me) you think about the images for a long time before snapping out of the "spell" of thinking about it. Try to do it as quickly as you can when images start...if you can do this quickly...you will grow accustom to doing the technique whenever you have the images, and you will instinctively do it quicker and quicker.

The question of whether or not to try, is a question that you can only answer for yourself. Personally I am trying because I don't want to head for plan D just to wake up 6 months from now to realize that I could have gotten over the A that W had...and now it's too late to recover. I see things a little clearer now, in the sense that if I act more gracefully, and understanding to W, that no matter if we can recover or not I will be a better person for trying. Of course, W has a lot of work to do...and if she strays from her plan for recovery (has contact with OM and in essence starting the affair again, especially), then it is all for not. But, she'll be the one going to hell, not me. If this is what happens...so be it. I will take what I've learned about foregiveness, gracefulness and marriage, and make some other woman a very lucky woman. Hope this helps.

Ogle,

I am sorry that you find yourself here but it is a good place to be in your circumstances.

If you sent your wife and children away for six weeks, your marriage is not great. You need to cling together in this very difficult time. You need to spend 15 hours of pleasurable time together to reconnect. You sent her away during a time when you were contemplating a revenge affair and she may still be going through withdrawal from the attention of OM.

If your MC thought this was a good idea, find a new one. And.. bring your family home or go be with them.

God's blessings,

Say

You Rock! Thanks for that technique. The images stay for a while, but I don't know what he looks like so that helps! She only said "Most wouldn't consider him attractive??!". Do you know the OM?

Not personally. I met him through WW, about 5 years ago or something (they used to be friends). During the time I was starting to suspect WW in an affair, I was at a bar with her and her friend. The friend invited us to her place after drinks in the bar...fatass OM (wasn't quite sure he was an OM at that point in time) walked into the bar. I wasn't feeling comfortable for some reason, so I told WW I needed to leave to go home. The friend that invited us to her place was someone that just quit working at WW's place of work, and WW said she wanted to go to her place to have a "farewell" type of drink with her. I went home alone...so did our friend...WW went home and rode OM that very night...start of month long PA.

Anyway, I purchased a book called.... "How to Mend Your Broken Heart: Overcome Emotional Pain at the End of a Relationship"
Author: Paul Mckenna, Hugh Willbourn. This book was purchased when I was contimplating plan "D", and the visualization excercises were invented to help you get over your "X". I just adapted the techniques for myself to get over the images of the PA. It's far from bulletproof, but you will find it helpful.

edit:

"Most wouldn't find him attractive" pretty much sums up my WW's OM. He's a fatass loser. And, you would think this would make it easier to take for BH's like us...but does it? Does this not make our WW's losers?...That's the dilemma that you are in (it seems like)....and you aren't alone.

OgleCPA,

You are young!!! I have children your age. You are experiencing some very hard life lessons at a very young age. Life is not fair; you cannot ever even the score when the one you love betrays you. You have children that need a grown up example of what a father is. Honesty, integrity, compassionate and forgiving are the traits I hope you want to teach. Your WW has much growing up to do. She will have to show much more than just being sorry for you to be able to forgive.

It will take “time” to heal the gaping wounds that an affair causes. It can happen if you are both willing to do the hard work. Stop looking for the quick fixes. Marriage and a successful relationship take a life-time of working together as husband and wife. It will not take just two years but a life-time of working together. Time for both of you to grow up and be adults and be good parents.

Get your family home now!!! Start the hard work today. You are not my child, but I am giving you the same advice I would give my own son.

Best wishes,

Merlin2

I think evening the score is not the goal. The harshest thing I could do is WALK. I'm talking about a slight inclination to do the same so I feel like a failure as well. Then I realize anyone can screw up that way. If you'd asked me 3 mos ago, I would have said NO WAY I COULD DO IT. But now, I think I could, which helps me understand her better. I definitely think one can get over this issue in six months or less IF the cirumstances are optimal. Here is the scenario: The BS is a step or two above the WS.(and I mean total package, not just looks) Like lets say 8 vs a 6.5 respectively. This causes the WS to be very relunctant to lose their 8, when they were with a 3.(Requires FOG to clear, I know but can happen fast)

WW - Worships the ground her H walks on, contrite, remorseful, committed, min "FOG PERIOD", mentions constantly that she must of been out of her mind.(in her case, she had some serious stress, sleep deprivation, and low self esteem.)

BS - Super High Self Esteem(Yes it takes a hit, but its was already real high, so now maybe its average) Buys a corvette convertible.(Thats what I did!) Accelerated my workout so I was in top shape.<-I was already fit! ALWAYS, and I STRESS ALWAYS, dress/look great any time you can be around you WS. I mean clip nose/ear hairs, get a cooler hair style! LOOK GOOD ANYTIME YOU CAN AROUND THEM. You call them, touch them, CONSTANTLY so they know they are your QUEEN. Last, but most important, you wine and dine them, take them on a trip immediately(We went to Hot Springs) and I showed her time emotionaly/physically/romantically she didn't even think was possible for a guy. Then the WW increases her Worship of H, contritefulness, remorsefullness, etc. You just stay constant. My wife says I'm her Don Juan, her Dream Guy. I spun this woman out of control just like I did 14 years ago.

Its a plausible outcome as I have not one ounce of fear of that dude or any other dude getting close to her again. I swept her off her feet so fast. I just don't like the random thoughts!