And blacks against Hispanics/Asians/whites. Racism is not a one way street. In the area I worked, the most discriminates against group were the Chinese. The blacks HATED them coming into their neighborhood and starting businesses. Next in line were Jewish people for the same reason....heck, Al Sharpton has had marches against Jewish people starting businesses in black areas.

My point here is...when you dig deeper...it isn't really one sided and it really has nothing to do with a person's skin color. It is a about fear and for some...profiting from that fear (think Robert Shapiro openly admitting that the OJ defense team intentionally played the race card "from the bottom of the deck" in order to get their client freed).

agreed 100%...start with the polygraph though. He has offered to take it...I bet the house he fails it miserably.

Yep..RACISM is WRONG and EVIL..regardless of whom it is against/towards...

Remember to keep the FOCUS on RECOVERY of YOUR MARRIAGE...

Mimi,

I believe in forgiveness. I think I have let the scales of Mercy outweigh the scales of Justice though. It's up to God to deliver Justice, but I have not enforced consequences for boundary crossing and now I need to do that for my own health and for a healthy example to my children.

WH knows that he needs to develop his own Recovery plan and stick to it. I'm not going to bear the burden of it all any longer.

I'm probably one of the most forgiving people he has ever met, but I have to change my focus and get healthy.

I do want to be M and I have given him a commitment to work on this by means that we have not tried thus far. But I have recognized that I cannot continue this one-sided journey either.

As many good things as he has, his infidelity is eroding all of that.

Thank you again for your comments. I do look forward to joining you in the "RECOVERED" walk.

I heard someone say that you can only ask 3 questions in the polygraph. And how conclusive will it be?

I'd like to ask about the physical aspect of the A's. I'm not sure what else I would ask that I don't already know.

some examiners will let you ask more. It will be EXCEPTIONALLY conclusive.

The reason for the limited number of questions is that most often follow-up questions will be required...it should take 3 hours or so to complete and is quite accurate.

I would make sure one of your questions is...Are you still lying to OUC about anything related to your affairs?

Remember, they need to be closed ended questions (yes/no answers). A good examiner will help you formulate the questions. Chose an examiner with an extensive history in law enforcement.

That's what I'm trying to do because WH has a "habit" of deferring the "issue at hand". I wonder if this was a conflict avoidance mechanism for him as a child.

His parents were very hard on him, disciplined extremely physical and I've watched how avoiding conflict has affected him as an adult.

But racism has nothing to do with the recovery of my marriage and as much as I am willing to read the book that schoolbus suggested and mature myself in that area and teach my children more, I'm NOT willing to have it be an EXCUSE for the Infidelity in my M.

I think that's the point you are making too. We're here to focus on the M. I told him that, but I guess he needs to walk the path the route that he feels will best serve him.

Isn't that question too broad? So if the answer is Yes, then where do I go from there? It's not like he's going to just offer up the past information.

I also read on here where some people admit to things before the test really occurs. Does that really happen and why?

He's playing you and others here. I GUARANTEE you that if he was asked on a polygraph if he played the race card to deflect attention away from the REAL issues at hand here that it would show that he did. I am not suggesting you waste a question on this...but his actions are quite obvious and with many people it is THE trump card.

Don't fall for it. It is a fraud.

OUC...

As someone who lived for years with a father who had Bipolar Disorder and did not take medication, I feel very qualified to say to you that your boundary with your daughter MUST be that in order to live with you she must get on and stay on medication...In fact, you must be in charge of dispensing those meds to her...and you will have to check to make sure she is actually swallowing them...It is not an easy road, but one that is VERY necessary, IME...

Bipolar Disorder does not just go away, in fact, it worsens with age...the cycles become more severe and frequent...You do her no favors by not requiring this OUC...Do not enable her to ruin her life and yours...She can lead a very productive and fulfilling life, but NOT without the medication...

I hope very much that you will heed my words...

Mrs. W

No, the question is perfect. The examiner will then ask him to tell what he has withheld and when he is done, the examiner will once again ask the question. That is the reason exams take so long.


Because liars lie. They think up until the time of the test that they will fool people with some of their bullchit. When it becomes obvious to them that they have to take the test and own up to their lies, most choose to let out SOME of the lies BEFORE the test...hoping that will result in their not having to take it. NEVER cancel an exam...always make the person take the test.

Very much agree with MEDC about the polygraph, OUC...

Mrs. W

medc,

I think that he wasted alot of time talking about it when it has nothing to do with the Infidelity. That's my judgment of it. However, if it got the apology that he needed from DD, then so be it. I do think that he is playing many cards to get sympathy from the posters here. Part of it is his humiliation in his actions, he has a hard time facing that he could be this bad to me. My worst LB are DJ and AO so you can only imagine that I have not been the nicest person during all of this at times.

I do believe that his ultimate desire is to dig deep underneath all the facade and learn more about himself and "fix" his own behavior. I do believe that he does want to "lay down" his weapons of Infidelity. But is that desire strong enough to keep him from acting out again, only time will tell. And I have to work on being in a better place for myself should this happen again.

So, I'm letting go and letting him work it out while I work on me.

Going to 2 doctors today to start. Physical health is going to be a great catalyst for more energy and ability to cope.

I hear you Mrs. W. That's why I got back into IC to begin with was to have assistance in enforcing boundaries with her and a writing up a contract. I joined an online group of parents as well to get ideas, I've been e-mailed suggestions on contracts.

I believe that she is more like a Borderline than Bipolar, but until she gets to a doctor that can diagnose her, I'm still relying on past diagnosis from her teen years and my own perceptions.

The contract will include the doctor visits and I will take her if I need to. I already found 2 options. She agreed to go. What scares me about the medication is that she actually acts WORSE on what she has been prescribed. Another reason I want to go to the doctor with her.

She told me last night that she has it made here. You have to understand that she has NEVER said that before. Has hated living with us. She mentioned that WH's help with the baby is the best thing about living here. So...with that being said, I think I have a little leverage right now too.

She's paranoid about being labeled as "crazy", so with me getting myself into IC, and my YS, she is seeing that it is not an attack on her. May sound manipulative, but I'm sure you can appreciate the means by which you have to deal with a mentally ill person.

Very good OUC...Please stick with that group, and most importantly follow through with the contract...being ready to enforce your boundary at any time that any of the conditions of said contract are unmet...It is the ONLY way to deal with someone that has a mental illness...Otherwise you will find your own sanity at stake AND as I said earlier enabling is NOT helpful to the "patient"...No matter how much crying, begging or promising is involved...


To be honest with you, I'd pray for a Bipolar diagnosis...Much easier to deal with and treat believe it or not...Many of the symptoms of those two things overlap though, in other words, are "co-morbid"...it is possible to have more than one diagnosis...I understand the process is long, drawn-out and frustrating for both the patient and the family...I really empathize with you...


This is GREAT news...I pray that she sticks to that promise, if not, be ready and willing to enforce your boundary OUC...Always, always, always have a PLAN...I can't stress that enough...The plan(s) MUST be VERY specific as the circumstances surrounding mental illness can often be very emotional and you may have to act during times when you aren't thinking as clearly as you normally would be...


Understand...Finding the right cocktail of meds is very maddening and difficult...It's a tiring trial and error process...


Glad to hear it OUC, but I still caution you...Remember that someone with a mental illness is ALWAYS mentally ill...Not only when they are "cycling"...This means that their brains do not function in the same manner as others...that isn't to say they are "bad", but they ARE different and often change directions on the slightest whim...Just be prepared...


I completely understand...The stigma associated with mental illness is a tough hurdle...And oh yes, I totally get the hoops that you jump through to get even the smallest things accomplished...You do whatever works...Just make sure to protect all of you...What is in her best interest is also in yours...Even when it "feels" wrong..."Tough Love" is not easy...

Mrs. W

P.S. If you haven't read the book An Unquiet Mind by Kay Redfield Jamison, be sure to check it out...It's a very good read...

UPDATE:

Dogo1 wrote a NC letter to OW this morning that we put in the mail. He's changing his cell phone number (again).

He also admitted last night that he had been to her house one other time and that is how he knew where she lived. Said he hauled some boxes there for her from her job, the grocery store that he and his co-workers frequent before work (she no longer works there).

He claims that he has only been there that one other time and still claims there was no PA.

Only time and a lie detector will tell I suppose.

I'm feeling like Sunday's episode really reduced the respect and love I have for him. I'm not really sure what to do from here.

Today is Thursday...tomorrow is Friday. Perhaps your outlook will change. I'm pulling for you!

Thanks fi!

My IC told me last night that my WH is addicted to lying and deception. In that lying and deception he chooses OW, porn, lies about money, etc.

WH says he is ready to "lay it all down" and even if we don't stay together he is making the commitment to himself that from this day forward (2 days ago), he is no longer going to lie.

I told IC that I was willing to give him 6 months to see if he worked a R plan of his own and one for our M. (I will do my part of course)

IC suggested that I ask his input directly like this:
What are you going to do about this?
How long do you need to do it?

Instead of me putting the 6 months out there. He wants him to take responsibility for this crazy behavior and really SHOW that he means it.

Remember that this IC is helping me with Co-dependent behavior too so this is working great.

I realize that there are alot of really good things about my WH and in talking with LA, I've learned that I fill my own LB by seeing and appreciating all the good he does for me.

Bottom line though: My #1 EN is O&H and #2 EN is Admiration (respected, valued, appreciated). If you look at my history with him and then read his post about me, you can see that the LB is being DEPLETED faster than I can fill it up on my own.

I asked him how he felt about his post and if that was truly who he sees that he is living with. Because if that was the case, why would he want to be married to the person that he described. KWIM? I think that he was surprised when he read back thru it to realize that he didn't say one kind word about me. (with the exception of agreeing with ears that I was "amazing")

I simply pointed out that with my #2 EN being Admiration and if the conversations in his head were anything like his post, how would that work in our R?

He does many amazing things around our house and today he is getting the yard done, the carpets cleaned and Molly Maids to clean the bathrooms and kitchen along with the help of my DD on the rest of the house so it will be in tip top shape for an inspection on Saturday. I praise him regularly and I thank him repeatedly for all that he does. I am grateful. I don't take it for granted.

That would be why I say it's like being married to Jekyll and Hyde. Take away the addiction and I'm the happiest girl alive.

It's funny how you can see so clearly the man he CAN be but refuses to. Addiction must be a horrific thing to deal with...the loss of control. I'm sure that somewhere deep down inside he knows you love him and want the very best for him. He probably does not mean to offend...but he still does. I'm not making excuses for him, I've read some of his postings. He was scary, very intense. All we can do is love them and hope they love us back!!! One day you fell in love with a special man...he's most likely still under there somewhere.

So he hadn't changed his phone number yet. Neither of us thought the U.S. Mail would make it "next day". But seems it did.

So I get a text from him from a new number saying: There was contact. I left the text message on the phone for you to see and this is my new number.

Then he forwarded the text to me, it read: You r such a lier (spelled wrong, duh!)

Then another text from him from the new number saying: I'm assuming she got the letter. She also called but the messages cleared out with the number change.

I asked him what the messages said. He told me that he only listened to one from a missed call, not realizing it was her and then he hung up, got the text from her and immediately changed the number. He told me she said on the message: You are a liar and I wished I never met you.

I asked if she used a different number. He said: I don't know, you will have to see it. I left the missed calls on the phone for you to see. (I'm a numbers person and have a photographic memory, I know exactly what her phone number is)

So the reason this is GOOD news for me, although I have lots of healthy skepticism is that it's the FIRST time that he has TOLD me something BEFORE I discovered it ON MY OWN!