Stellakat,

Let me clear some things up. I have never had sex with any of them, nor have I had any intentions to. I have never had any physical contact with any of them, not even a hug with the exception of the one or two that I had already met even before I met ouc. No, I am not looking for a different type of wife or looking for just a whatever.

Now, has my contact with them been emotional, yes it has and I have come to the knowledge that my actions no matter what the reason are wrong. Nothing I said gave way to the fact nor ouc that we were getting down like that.

I did answer though in what I felt war the better choice.

Dogo1

Resilient,

I get that there is a separation between what I did and just the everyday strife of a family. So for me, it is that deep, I live this life with ouc and all you have seen is just that.

Now, am I willing to do the work and learn a better way, gung ho.
I have come here to grow and gain a better since of handling life in more healthy way in the regards of my marriage and family.

Dogo1

Dogo,

That's what I thought. One wife, here to fix.

Good.

I think I know plenty of guys like you. I don't think you're that different from a lot of people out there, who find themselves moving from what they see as "harmless flirtation" at first, which boost their egos and fills them up somehow - but then moves into dangerous territory and they find themselves in an affair. The feelings develop because they are not guarding against the starting behaviors in the first place, and they are not even aware that the issue really is that what they think of as "normal flirting" or "just talking".


Let me give you an example. In a long ago universe, I was the only woman on the job and I worked with about 50 guys. The guys constantly hit on me. I mean CONSTANTLY. There was maybe only four or five of these guys who didn't hit on me, and at the time, I didn't really know why. Maybe now I do.

I became emotionally involved with one of them - now I understand that I was in an emotional affair with him. Back then, I wouldn't have said it was an affair because we only kissed, but now I have full understanding that it WAS an affair and had we not come to our senses we would have gone much further. (My husband does know about this!)

That "harmless" flirting from all of the guys was different with this one guy - because there was an attraction there. It wasn't harmless. And it could have been much worse, but for some reason we stopped ourselves before it became a physical affair; only because I think I felt so much guilt about my feelings for the man, and I knew what I felt was wrong, I felt betrayal of my husband, and even though it was not a PA, I KNEW it was wrong. So yes, it was an affair, in my heart it was.

The "harmless" flirting from the other men had another effect on me, too. I constantly turned them down, disregarded it...all day long. The effect it had was that when my own husband made a pass at me, I also turned him down - by force of habit. He was just one of many....and this was NOT GOOD for my marriage. Men just hit on me, and I turned them down. My H was no different...and that was terrible for him.

So I know that when these women return the flirtation, that feels good. On top of that, when a woman you are emotionally attracted to returns the flirtation, that feels extraordinarily good. Too good, in fact. What started as a "harmless flirtation" is now filling up your love bank, and you go back for more. And the OW does, too.


So one of the behaviors you will need to take a very close look at is your behavior of talking up the ladies. Do you compliment other women? Tell them they look nice, tell them how pretty they are, etc.? That was one thing my husband had to change immediately. I told him that he was to NEVER comment on a woman's body or looks again - and that he was not to compliment a woman on her looks when I was not around again, either, unless it was his daughter, sister, or mom.

He agreed that this was a behavior that had helped get him into his affair, because it opened the topic up to talk about OW's body. She took it from there, and he was happy to follow.

Not-so-harmless flirtation.


SB

KaylaAndy,

Do I carry the pain of racial torment within, I do. I deal with the fact the world is not perfect in the world. What I don't deal with is the fact that it is within my own home. You tell me when you have been beat to the near inch of your life for being black? You tell me the last time you were spit upon for being black? I press on because I know that this is socially the truth of this country.

How am I to deal in my home when my daughter is taught that is okay. How am I to cope that within my sanctuary I must continue the fight. Yes in deed, if she is ill, then why not get her help.
Why continue along a path that allows for those actions be considered okay without consequence?

Has anyone at that time and since come to me and apologize, acknowledge that pain?

Again, I will agree that there is a better way for my actions to be handled and no, I did not. How can you see my pain, know my pain whether it is that or anything else and see me suffer without regard?

So here we are now with all that has happened with my infidelity, I am ready to move forward for a more healthy marriage.

I didn't say it was gonna be easy for me or a piece of cake. What I do know is that it is worth the fight, my wife and marriage. Did I allow what was in the present overcome what I was seeing the future, yes I did.

All I am saying is, don't take my pain lightly because you know ouc. I am here and ready to do work.

Thanks again for your time, it is appreciated and I do value yours and everyone's comments.

Dogo1

ForeverHers,


I agree with what you have said. I am here for the long haul, to be accountable for me and make that growth and shedding happen.

I also agree that it will take more than just a few post to fix years of pain. It will take long haul committed work in order to make it work and I am in.

Dogo1

SchoolBus,

I have read this last long post. I will have to get back to you to process what you have laid before me. I do appreciate the time and effort in the posting.

Dogo1

LovingAnyway,

I have just read the one longer post of yours, I appreciate the spirit in which you come from. I do need some time to process where you are coming from and applying that into my life. I will get back as soon as I can.

Dogo1

First off, I don't know if I replied to everyone, working on getting to you.

I also thank you and appreciate all of the comments, advice,thoughts, and feelings being given my way.

Next off, regardless of what I am feeling of the past, what I know is for the future to work I gotta be busy now.

We have ordered the book from Dr. Harley and have started the 15hrs a week program. We have also addressed the emotional needs, love busters and poja among some other things.

Also working on a plan that will allow her to have or to know of my complete accountability of time and actions.

Is it gonna be easy, I'm sure it won't be. I am committed to the work even when it is hard. I love ouc, contrary to what some my feel or believe.

Thanks Once Again To All

Dogo1

Ears_Open,

Thanks for the words, she is amazing and we do have a lot of love for each other. I truly believe that we have gotten lost along the way.

I am committed to this marriage and ouc. I want to make it work and do the work to make it work.

There are a lot of things that we don't do often anymore because of work. I have started working on something that will get us back to nature and being in the outdoors.

Thanks for taking the time. . .

Dogo1

Dogo - I've never been black - but I have been beat up and tormented just because of how I looked. The sad commentary is that there is still an area where comedians, talk show hosts, and others lead the way in mocking and belittling a segment of society. And it's not about color. It's very taboo to make fun of someone because of their color - the lowest of the low are the only ones who do it - those and the mentally ill manipulated by the lowest of the low.

I've had a young man sit in my living room tell me I had no idea what it's like to be discriminated against. Maybe not because of the color of my skin, true. But I have been discriminated against. I don't allow myself to mope and misbehave or act like people owe me something.

I used to teach school, and I can guarantee you they all get teased over something. I just didn't grow up with someone pointing out that kind of behavior against those who shrugged it off, or converted it into a means of becoming socially popular; no one was telling me that and showing me how others handled it.

When you take the dagger thrown at you by someone else - that dagger labeled "racism" and you draw it to the target by taking it personally - you insure that "they hurt you" and you get to be a victim. But you never get to rise above it AND be a victim at the same time. You have to let go of the crutch of "racial victim" in order to rise to the measure of your creation. You can't do both.

It's time you take responsibility for taking that wound onto yourself instead of letting it reflect on the people who committed bad behavior against you. You didn't have to take it personally.

You have a choice. Maybe not then because you did not know. But from this moment you do. NEVER allow yourself to take license in being a victim of racism - rather - you just had a brush with someone who has no way to relate to you as a Christian. Forgive them, for they truly know not what they do, and you have better things to do than to give them any more moments of your life reflecting on THEIR bad behavior as if it had anything to do with you.

Janyne241,

Thank you for the time.

Yes I can agree to whatever is that I need to do to make this happen. I am open for honest and open conversation and learning what her needs are.

Again, thx for your feelings and thoughts. I hope to hear more, look forward.

Dogo1

Dogo1...IMHO...and I have a lot of experience with this...you are playing the race card because it has become socially acceptable in this country to do just that. It has NOTHING to do with your failures as a man or a husband.
I suggest that if you want respect...earn it. You were an easy target because of your actions. A person of color handling his life's business in an appropriate and caring way would not have been subjected to the things that were said to you. So, big deal...they picked something they KNEW would hurt you after what you did. It is no different than a WS that is called a whorre by her betrayed husband. Is it right??? NO...but you opened the door for these attacks with your actions, not your skin color.
I am not a racist by any stretch and I can tell you that given your actions...if that was my mom, you might have heard the same words from me...and you would count yourself lucky to only hear words.
What you did is far worse and it should be the ONLY topic being discussed right now. Handle your business like a man and not a child and people will respect you. handle like an idiot and they will search for ways to lash back at you.

I'm an African-American woman, Dogo. I haven't kept up closely with your story but I want to help you, from my perspective with a couple of things.

I agree with MEDC on this.


IT..meaning RACE...


I DON'T AGREE that you are "playing the race card because it is socially acceptable in this country"..BUT...REMEMBER THIS ISSUE has NOTHING to do with what's going on between you and your wife...

What likely happened was, as MEDC stated:


Focus on the INTENT/ PURPOSE and MAINLY, the CAUSE..NOT THE CONTENT of what was said...

RACISM is a very RAW/DELICATE/EMOTIONAL ISSUE for US... is TRUE...the PAIN that you felt when disrespected by your stepchildren, though, was likely miniscule in comparison to the PAIN that OnlyU has endured as a result of your infidelity...Look to this as a MEANS of EMPATHIZING with her EMOTIONAL PAIN...

I think Dogo is saying there are

TWO issues at home.


The first issue is his marriage.

The second is the issue of his wife's children. Within the issue of the wife's children is the fact that OUC does not seem to enforce boundaries for her children - including that her children are not to make racial slurs against Dogo, and that her children are to show him respect.


I think that Dogo's point was that part of the difficulty within the marriage is that the children are disrespectful of him and OUC, and that as part of recovery, this must be addressed.

Do I have that right, Dogo?


I think that perhaps in the many posts and cross-posts, the point got lost. I think that was the original point when he brought up the racist remark.

That's why I recommended the book - because if the parents can work WITH the kids on the issue of racism, it works toward better understanding of why this issue does seem to have an influence throughout the many facets of the lives of so many African-Americans in our nation.

The "kids" in question are young adults - they have no excuse for these types of remarks, except that they are disrespectful. Regardless of the "reasons" for why they chose those remarks, these "children" need to understand how they are affecting this marriage, and need to also understand that racism is simply an ignorant life approach.

The parents should probably consider family counseling as well.



SB

GREAT POST, SB!!


THANK YOU SOO MUCH FOR THAT BOOK RECOMMENDATION!!

mimi,

I once thought of myself as "not racist". When I read the Gaines book, I realized just how pervasive racism is in our society, and just how blind I was to it.

It was too easy for me to say, "Don't play the race card." I had no understanding of race, what it meant to be Black in America. I cannot say that I understand that fully, still. But I do have a much clearer appreciation of the issue having read the book.

My friend told me she never thought of me as racist, and when we discussed the book she said she needed to get it for her boyfriend (he is White, she's Black). I gave her my copy. I told her that I guessed that prior to reading the book I didn't think of myself as racist, but after reading the book I could see those threads of thinking in myself - and that I had work to do!

She read the book, and she said it opened her eyes, too. She understands herself - her own ideas - better, she says.

A Gathering of Old Men.

Just too good. But you need to be ready to THINK.

SB

I've already ordered it, SB.

THANK YOU!! THANK YOU!!

I've profitted sooo much from my BIBLIOTHERAPY over the past few years...

As I sit here, I'm looking at a photo of my GRANDFATHER when he was a YOUNG MAN. He STANDS just like my SON. It's MIRACULOUS how genes work. Everyone says my YS is like him.

He died at age 92 of a "broken heart" (what his Doc said) when we had to put my grandmother in a nursing home. They had been married 71 years.

I wonder if I'll find him in one of those "OLD MEN".

I often MISS HIM sooo much...

Just wanna have a "little talk" with him...

EXCUSE THE T/J, Dogo...

Work on being a MAN like my grand Daddy, though...

I know he had his YEARS OF DARKNESS...that thankfully I never learned about FULLY...

Medc,

I appreciate all of the comments and thoughts. I am processing all that is being said. I feel that I am not using race as much as I am displaying a moment that showed a hurt and a pain. That festered because it was refused to be dealt with. I will even say that I was completely clueless being only 29 at the time of marrying ouc and coming into teenagers already. I felt to the best of my know how, I handled it as best as would be allowed or discussed.

My point in the bringing of old pain is to show even to myself how if not dealt with can be allowed to fester and grow. Does any one singular act equal the same as what I have done, no it does not.

I have learned though through you great people is that, I gotta handle mine as much as she has to handle hers. It's both on us to manage our own checks and balances.

Thanks for your thoughts, tough but, thanks


Dogo1

mimi_here,


No, I am not playing a race card, that is not me. What I am trying to do is express a pain that was allowed to fester and not be acknowledged. Again, I am not saying that any one of these issues are a reason to act out. I am just putting out a pain that exists that I would like to have acknowledged and handled just as I am here now to do so for and with ouc.

As for what I did, the kids have never known any of that pain.

It has always just been parent children issues and haunts that we are dealing with, some greater than others.

I appreciate your words and the time taken to share with me, thx.


Dogo1

Update July 8th, 2008

Last night we started listening to a book on dvd called Peace Giver. We are dedicated listening to as many chps a each night to finish by Sunday. It also plays into our 15hrs a night.

Today was a little tougher, being that she had questions. I know in that it will take time and patience. I have been showing for my time when either away from the house or on the puter. Are book should be here any day now from Dr. Harley. I have also taken up reading a christian book based on the role of the male in the home and how to over come the ravages of this world that plague men. It deals with selfishness, ego, pride, addictions and so fourth and also comes with a work book.

I also want it to be known that for the first time, we handled the race issue, at least more than any time before. It went peacefully. There is yet more to deal with and I was given knowledge to by Schoolbus of a great book to read that I feel we will all under take.

I will continue to post and keep in touch with all that takes place or not in our recovery.


Dogo1