I wish you luck AB3 but it sure looks like round 3 is about to begin.

Insanity - Doing the same thing over and over again and expecting a different result.

In all 71 pages of this thread, was that ever mentioned?

I don't recall reading anything about your dissatisfaction with the church you were attending. I thought you posted about how they were supportive of your actions. Now, that would be why people might see what they are seeing.

Changing churches is out of the clear blue.


Again, in all 71 pages of this thread, where you describe in DETAIL her antics, you now want to brush it off by calling it "bad decisions"?

You are needing an intervention for your codependecy.

committed

At what point in 71 pages would the issue of my church have been relevant? It's not even relevant now, it's only being brought up because some here still visit my blog and became aware of it.

Many people at my church have been very supportive of me and remain my friends today. That also has NOTHING to do with the legalism or the financial consideration.

It would give credence to what you are saying about changing churches having NOTHING to do with your WW.

Have you changed churches before...because of the affairs that your WW had involved herself in?

If you have....changing churches now looks like you are doing the same thing that you did before, especially since you have never indicated your dissatisfaction with the church before.

Is really isn't hard to make the connection.

It looks like same s#*^ , just a different day.

committed

The issue of changing churches became relevant because you brought up the fact that after your WW's previous two(?) affairs, you changed churches. You brought up the pattern, and how it played into continuing your WW's behavior, not us.

We are only trying to be responsible friends and hold you accountable for things you mentioned at the very beginning. Honestly, what you are saying now sounds like what you warned us your pattern was at the beginning. We're just reminding you of that, because you sound a bit "foggy" now. We could be wrong, we aren't inside your head, but we wouldn't be very good friends if we didn't point out to you what you may be ignoring.

I've been in church all of my life. In fact, my husband and I have just decided to leave the church where we've been for the past five years for some of the same reasons. Not wanting to cause discension (sp?) in the church, we told no one until we were ready to make the break, and then we only said we felt it was time for a change.

Anywho, the fact that THEY contacted you first, makes all the difference in the world in my opinion. AND the fact that you were upfront with the pastor AND the fact that he was already aware of your marital situation is very good news.

I've been involved in the music ministry for most of life so I understand how all that works. I think it's awesome that you've been given a new opportunity to minister (with pay!) and that your pastor is already alert to your situation. What that tells me is that you AND your wife (hopefully) will still be held accountable (by your new pastor) if you decide to reconcile.

Why NOT put it behind you where only KEY people in the new church are aware? It may make the healing a little easier either way, for your children, for you, and for your wife if she returns.

Thank you again for your words of wisdom Princess. It would seem that some think she should wear a "scarlet letter" were she to return.

You described perfectly what has happened.

No SECRETS...No HIDING of ANYTHING.

These two comments concern me. While I agree that her accountability is to God FIRST, she indeed should be accountable to her church and to her husband. This is very Biblical.

I do agree that this is Biblical. Unfortunately, she currently has no church. Not excusing WW IN ANY WAY for her actions, but her pastor of ten years, nor ANYONE else from our previous church have made ANY attempt to contact her according to M. While not really a part of my decision to leave, I have to admit that I am a little disappointed in that knowledge. After all, the shepherd left the ninety and nine to find the one. I would have thought that SOMEONE would have sought her out when they knew she most needed ministering to. Apparently, she was judged and forgotten,...so long as I was still present doing what I had always done. Again, NOT part of the decision...but, very disappointing!

I completely agree that she should get right with WHATEVER church she (or possibly "we") end up in. Again, there are a lot of nuances here that some are missing. Assumptions can many times lead you to incorrect conclusions!

As to accountability to me. I agree that is necessary at a later time. Right now, her FIRST obligation is to return to God. I can not deal with her until that occurs and there is true repentence.

Aw3, if that's what you say happened, I believe you. I am not saying your WW should wear a scarlet letter or that you should never forgive her. You gotta admit it follows the pattern you yourself warned us about at the very beginning, and I just think I would be remiss to not caution you about that.

You know what I would like to see happen is for you and your FWW to build a happy marriage and home for those three kids of yours. If I caution against your welcoming her back too soon, it's just based on what you've described as your pattern, and concern that it not be repeated.

You know all that. And you know the details of your situation, more than can be typed in here. I pointed out something that may be in your blind spot, that's all. If you are aware and dealing accordingly, that's great!

I agree, it's very disappointing that no one from that church tried reaching out to her. And FWIW I was brought up Baptist and can identify with the feelings you've expressed. (When my 1st H left me to shack up with a drug-dealing bartender, ppl from my church wanted to lecture me on how I could never re-marry. That was their vision of comfort and ministry.)

Just an observation, but she hasn't exactly been spiritually edified (right phrase?) by some of the other "spiritual leaders" she's associated with. It may be that a complete change is best. Maybe God is leading you elsewhere for that reason.


I'm glad to hear you say this. Not that you have to justify anything to me, just that we care, and we try to caution each other when we see one of us possibly making a mistake.

I agree! This is really a pet peeve of mine. My dad was a "pastor" in every sense of the word. Granted he pastored a small church (about 250 people) but he would have NEVER let one of the congregation just disappear and fall away without checking on them.

IMHO a person should not become a "pastor" without committing to be a shepard to his congregation. That doesn't necessarily mean that the pastor has to physically be the ONE that does this, especially in a mega church, but he should train up people and delegate. I'm not Church of Christ, but when my father-in-law died I was overwhelmed and very impressed by the way the church pitched in and took care of my mother-in-law during his illness and after his death.

It's all about one-anothering one-another with the pastor as the leader.

Enough of that... if only the church were perfect.

Jayne, Thank you for always being kind with your words and offering constructive criticism and words of warning.

I do think there is some misconception about the former church changes. Not sure how that happened, but here are the details again.

WW's 1st affair was when we were first married (she was 20...not that it matters). It was with our pastor at that time's son. Obviously, we HAD to change churches at that time!

It just so happened that we went from a Southern to an Independent Baptist church nearby but in a neighboring state. It was really not intentional that she be sheltered form emberassment, it just worked out that way. Since the "new" church was VERY spiritual and WW was VERY interested in getting involved there, we BOTH jumped in with both feet! Unfortunately, it was (and is) VERY legalistic and traditional. I'm not sure we ever really "fit in" with that type of doctrine but, for 10 years, we certainly tried. We became involved with the music and the youth and fell in love with them. We have really only remained for their sakes. Now, many of the original ones are seniors in HS or in college and beyond, so I feel as though my work there is done. I am truly looking forward to the change, WW or not!

FWIW, my church DID NOT judge me at all due to the actions of WW. But, after all, I was still there every time the doors opened and doing the same jobs I had done before she left. It would seem that the "staff" there was content with that.

While MANY friends there have been extremely supportive, I can tell you that the pastor has not even contacted ME since the infamous "exposure" phone call he made to WW's employer. Even then, I think it was just to see if I was mad and if I was going to return and keep doing my "job." I truly am disappointed with how this was handled on that level.

Again, thanks for your words of warning. I assure you, I will admit when anyone is correct in their assumptions, but I despise when I am judged based on false perceptions.

Hello ABw/3

How are things going with you? How are the kids?

Here's an update for 'ya!!!

Got a call yesterday from M saying that WW DESPERATELY needed to speak with me in person. Of course, I refused. WW called EVERY phone in my house numerous times and, eventually, I did answer!

She begged to come by and "talk" in person. I explained that this was her only chance to talk to me (over the phone!)...go for it!

Among other things, she explained how OM was NOT who she thought she was and how she NEVER wanted to speak to him again! But...she explained...I'm going to have to..."I'm PREGNANT!"

It would seem that she thought I was going to say that it's okay and that she could just come back home and we would raise her illegitimate child...but, that's NOT the case.

I'M DONE...NO MORE...IT'S OVER!!!

The adoption is looking great, the birth mother "officially" relinquished (with her attorney present this time) and everything should be finalized on Sept. 2nd.

I did tell WW that the baby would NEVER be coming back (no sense in her PLAYING momma anymore) and that I would not force the other two to visit ever again.

She conceeded that I could file on grounds of adultery (no further proof needed!) and that the D could be final in 90 days. I told her that I expected FULL legal and physical custody of the kids and that they would be allowed to visit ONLY when they asked to! She even said she would pay for it!

My plans are to visit my attorney this week (waiting on appt time), explain what's happening, and get WW's a*! in ASAP to sign whatever's necessary.

OMG. I did not see that coming, bet you didn't either, huh. What a lesson for your kids. I know most won't agree, but my heart broke for her (and you and the kids) when I read that. I guess this is your line in the sand though and it's understandable. Really sad.

I'm so sorry about all this.

I am also glad that you knew your boundries and have stuck with them.

Your poor kids (shaking my head).

I am SO glad they have YOU.

I am so sorry! This is certainly not good news.

Do you think she really expected you to move her back in after this?

Do you think she is really finsihed with OM, or was that another lie?

Do your children know she is pregnant?

Is she willing to give you complete custody of your children?

And - this last question is rhetorical - do WW not EVER use birth control? I am amazed at all the "accidental" pregnancies, and have to wonder if they are really accidental.

Wait, it just hit me. Do I remember right that WW claimed this was just an EA??

I'm sorry, this really upsets me. Sometimes it is truly depressing to read the stories here. So much needless heartbreak!

ab, I am so sorry. I'll ditto that your kids are so lucky they have you. Can you take the kids on a little vacation or something? {{{ab}}}

I'm so sorry, ab.

so sorry.