TL,<BR>Venting is good, but it is best when it is done in a positive manner. I am not siding with Mia but from her post she sounded really remorseful for her part. She is not your H. If your H is not trying to rebuild your marriage then you should try that much harder to be the example of what you want him to be. <P>I know this seems like an insurmountable task but it can be done. I am doing everything that is pleasant to my W, the betrayer. I see her getting closer in little ways that were there in the beginning. She doesn't realize that she is doing it because she is trying to cntrol the situation. She does not understand that God is in control and that she hasn't truly given her life over to Him. Once she does give her life to Him she will be able to find peace in the midst of the storm. The pain won't go away until Jesus comes again and we have new bodies that won't decay.<P>MONDO HUG!!! I truly feel your rage because I am beginning to get over mine. I had never experienced rage until about 6 months ago when affair # 8 started.<P>God be with you and your family. I am continuing to pray for you.<P>------------------<BR>God Bless,<BR>Rob<P><BR>

Tired lady....If you are in that much pain..you have got to take action. I don't know your situation, if you have kids, if you're in counseling, etc, but it sounds like you need a break. Even if it's just for a day or two, go visit a friend, do something to help regain your perspective on this whole thing. Your entire life, breath and being has been over taken by this. When you are in that position, your perspective isn't clear, and you can't think rationally. CUT YOURSELF SOME SLACK ! ! Don't try to rush the healing...continue to work towards that goal, or course, but if you try to do too much too fast, you end up right where you are. Love yourself, take care of yourself...help yourself get you mind to a place where it can start to feel comfort and heal.

Tired Lady<P>You are making ME tired! If you read the post that I wrote today on 2Sad's thread, you will see that OM's wife did the same thing to me. She started harassing me after I had ended it - three months after it was over. She continued for five months. IT WAS OVER!! I never contacted him EVER during that entire time. It wasn't easy for me or him, but I stuck to my guns. FINALLY after five months of putting up with her, I contacted him. She ended up e-mailing me and asked me to call her. When I did, she read me the riot act, every name in the book, accused me of still being in love with him and sending him that email to get him back. NOT TRUE. I hadn't spoken, emailed, phoned, nothing from July to February - yet she refused to believe it. What is a person supposed to do?<P>I agree that I messed up big time, just like Mia. But everybody screws up. I believe Mia at this point. I think you were wrong to do that.

Tired Lady<P>You are making ME tired! If you read the post that I wrote today on 2Sad's thread, you will see that OM's wife did the same thing to me. She started harassing me after I had ended it - three months after it was over. She continued for five months. IT WAS OVER!! I never contacted him EVER during that entire time. It wasn't easy for me or him, but I stuck to my guns. FINALLY after five months of putting up with her, I contacted him. She ended up e-mailing me and asked me to call her. When I did, she read me the riot act, every name in the book, accused me of still being in love with him and sending him that email to get him back. NOT TRUE. I hadn't spoken, emailed, phoned, nothing from July to February - yet she refused to believe it. What is a person supposed to do?<P>I agree that I messed up big time, just like Mia. But everybody screws up. I believe Mia at this point. I think you were wrong to do that.

new beginning or anyone else - It struck me when you said you'd "have a nervous breakdown" if the betrayed W contacted you and you hated getting an email from her. Well this is exactly the effect I want to have on the ow - I want her to know and feel the pain and destruction she has caused. Instead she struts around like f---ing princess and remains on our payroll. Anyway, new beginning, your post has made me think it would be a good thing for me to contact ow. Somehow I believe I cannot move forward in this healing and rebuilding journey until I at least do that. It would be best if she were just out of our lives but that is not going to happen.

simone,<P>I've been betrayed, and I understand your pain and frustration. All I'm saying is that not all betraying woman are f*cking princesses strutting their stuff around... and in fact, I am so NOT like that. My affair is long over, and in fact was over as soon as I slept with him once. I ruined 20 yrs. of marriage with a 3 mo. affair. IT WAS A MISTAKE AND I AM PAYING FOR IT, BELIEVE ME.<P>I'm in a LOT of pain, and I'm sure that makes you happy. <P>If my post makes you want to contact the OW, I'm sorry. <P>------------------<BR>~Sheryl<P>Marriage: the most important contract you'll ever enter into, and the most sacred.<P><BR>

Well, thank you all for your candidness with your responses. I, however, feel like Simone. I want Mia to have a nervous breakdown. Yes it sounds like I'm an unfeeling, insensitive person, and maybe at this point I am. If Mia were to be choking on a piece of meat and I was the only one to help with the hiemlich manuver, I'd walk away. Cold? Yes. But sorry folks, in answer to Maya's question about forgiveness - No, Maya, I will NEVER forgive her for her affair with my husband.

Tired Lady...<P>I was betrayed back in Jan/Feb. I DID call that OW, right in front of my H. Before I called her, I thought long & hard about what I would tell her. I didn't give her a chance to even talk and I called her exactly what I thought of her.<P>I don't have any regrets and I have that little satisfaction of letting her know what I thought of her whoredom. I could care less how she felt after I called her. I will never forgive her for her intrusion into my marriage. Why should I? She knew exactly what she was doing and still consciously did it. She deserves to be told exactly what she is!<P>BTW...my H & I are recovering nicely.<P>p.s. I have a feeling that many on this MB site wouldn't agree with what I did, but I did it for ME, and no one else.

TL, I'm right with you on that boat I'm afraid. I would like nothing more than to hurt the OW, and have to constantly restrain myself from doing so.<P>But it doesn't help. <P>And about forgiving, I don't think you have to forgive Mia. That doesn't mean you have to hold a grudge either, and let it hurt you. Just write her off as the scum she is and don't let her rent space in your head anymore. It's what I'm trying to do...to negate the OW's existence so I don't even have to THINK about her anymore. No forgiveness, no grudge, no NOTHING.<P>It's hard though, and I'm still at it.<P>Anyway, don't beat yourself up for what you did. You did what you had to do, and don't let anyone tell you you did wrong if you felt you had to make that call. What's done is done, and no amount of recrimination is going to change it. Just move on and don't feel guilty. It's counterproductive <P>

No Trust - Thank you for validating my actions. <P>It's a bit confusing to read how some people can actually understand things from Mia's sorry point of view. I still have never gotten the answer from my H about what exactly he got from her. Must be something pretty special for him to feel like he must defend her at every nasty comment I make about her.<P>

I never should have come here...<P>you wouldn't save a fellow human being... you'd watch her die, and enjoy her suffering. That is the saddest thing I've ever heard. <P>I have been in your shoes, my H betrayed me- twice- and I can tell you that I WOULD save the OW - both of them - because they are HUMAN BEINGS.<P>My God... I'm not Hitler, I'm a sinner saved by grace. Thank God I can find some forgiveness in God's eyes.<P>I'm sorry I intruded in your thread.<P>------------------<BR>~Sheryl<P>Marriage: the most important contract you'll ever enter into, and the most sacred.<P><BR><p>[This message has been edited by new_beginning (edited October 15, 1999).]

NB - I'm a far cry from Hitler! Geezzz.... I am a very bitter scorned woman who wants her life back the way it used to be. And I know it will never be that way.

I wrote a post in regards to your not giving up on your marriage(I know you were just venting... frustration sets in and I can understand that), but didn’t post. Saw some other stuff you wrote, and wrote a VERY angry post to you TL... counted to 10 and deleted it. Then I saw this, and wished I hadn’t.<P> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>It's a bit confusing to read how some people can actually understand things from Mia's sorry point of view.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>I know, cause I <B>lived</B> it. I’m a good person who made some really bad mistakes. I’m <B>HUMAN,</B> and so is Mia. From what I can see, she truly <B>IS</B> remorseful. If that is so, nothing you can do or say will EVER make her feel as bad as she makes herself feel.<P> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Must be something pretty special for him to feel like he must defend her at every nasty comment I make about her.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>I’ll come right out and say something... despite what she did, she’s a better person than you are. We all make mistakes, but you are a <B>LIVING</B> mistake. You are a vindictive, bitter woman, and your husband deserves better than you.<P>

Thanks for the reply WhoDat. Obviously my husband thought deserved better too. I keep forgetting Mia (the adulteress) is the saint in all of this.

WhoDat<P>My mom said if you can't say something nice, don't say anything at all.<P>Shame on you.

TL,<BR>Are you a Christian? Just curious.<P>------------------<BR>God Bless,<BR>Rob<P><BR>

Everyone....<P>TL is here to vent, so let her vent. She is in a lot of pain. All of you here have been in pain and are still living in it. Coming to Marriage Builders is her outlet. <BR>Sometimes we react in ways others don't approve of. Every person and couple is different. I don't think it is fair to generalize that what is good for one person, is good for all.<P>I don't think it is fair to come to the conclusion that her H doesn't deserve to be with her because she is a bad person. How can anyone say that about another? We only know each other from what we Post and Reply....We don't really know who a person is unless we personally know them.<P>TL...I can understand what you did and why you did it, because I did the same thing. But there did come a time when I stopped focusing on the OW and started working on marital recovery. Once in awhile, those terrible triggers pop in my head and I become angry. I do tell my H and he is understanding about it.<P>I think that's what helps me move on. I wish you luck with your H. It's going to be a long, tough road...but I know you can do it!<BR><p>[This message has been edited by NoTrust (edited October 15, 1999).]

Prof Org - I was brought up in a Christian home but do not attend church or anything like that.

Rob, I know you mean well, but TL's bitterness is not because she's not a Christian, it's because she can't get past what's happened. You don't have to be a Christian to forgive; you don't have to be a Christian to derive strength from within yourself.<P>TL isn't ready to let go of the rage. Perhaps faith would make it easier for her, but it's not something you can turn on and off.<P>TL, no one is saying you're not justified in feeling the way you do. But if you want to keep your marriage (and perhaps you don't; only you can decide), you are going to have to learn to LET GO OF THE ANGER. Let go of the past and focus on the future. Listen to the people here who are enduring the spouse's withdrawal from the OP. They can help you. <BR>Look, you might not be up to going through that process. And that's OK too. Then file for divorce and be done with it. But then don't say you worked on your marriage. Admit that you didn't want to, that you didn't feel up to it. But be honest with yourself.<P>No, your life won't ever be the same as it used to. No one's is. You have a shot at making a new one, one that's better, one where this won't happen again. But you have to navigate a minefield in order to get there, and there are no guarantees that you will. If you can deal with that, do it. If you can't, I for one, won't judge you.<P>People, everyone has a different tolerance for this stuff. I think it's unfair for anyone to get on TL's case for how she feels, even if she is expressing unconstructive feelings. She's ranting here so that she DOESN'T rant at her H (TL, I hope that's true).<P>TL, Mia is at best a person who made a mistake and genuinely wants to make amends. I don't blame you not trusting her. She could just be a master manipulator. But you have to reduce her importance in your life. If she was a factor, your H would be out of the house and with her. He's not. He's home. <P>Your H made a mistake. A bad one. He's paying a price, and unfortunately, so are you. It's not fair. Not at all. You have been wronged, and it's up to you to right it, and that's not how you were taught it should be. But there we are.<P>TL, if you can hang on, use this time to be nice to yourself. Your love bank is empty too, and your H can't put anything in it right now. So you have to nurture yourself for a while. You have to be nice to TL. And this sort of anger isn't being nice to TL.<P>I pay $80 an hour for what I've just told you for free.

Sheryl:<P>Don’t be down on yourself. Tired Lady is to be pitied. Not for her husband’s affair, but rather for how she is dealing with it. She’d rather hang on to hate than ever take a chance to love again.<P>How pathetic.<BR>