I do too. I came to the conclusion that it wasn't fair to anyone involved--including myself--to have the legal system set and enforce boundaries when I hadn't already done my part.

I'll admit that it was tempting to just let him have as much rope as he needed to hang himself but that would have been just as manipulative and controlling as him--maybe moreso--because I had already learned that it is not uncommon for people who are abused to pick up characteristics of their abuser, which is not something I wanted for myself in recovery.

I accepted responsibility for tolerating the behavior in the past, clearly stated what behavior I would no longer tolerate, and informed him what action I would now take for those behaviors. And then I kept to my word.

From your first post:
That's the warning you gave and what you will do if your ex crosses that line. What do you (and your son) get out of involving the legal system before you've had the opportunity to follow through on your word? What does your ex get out of it? (It can be both positive and negative things.)

From your first post:
It appears that even "rational" conversations are not always safe so why not limit conversations to the phone instead of in person so that you (and your son) are safe?

From your first post:
It appears that restating your position still does not make her "get it" and might even escalate the situation, so why continue doing it? Why continue having discussions other than child-related discussions at all? What do you (and your son) get out of it? What does your ex get out of it?

That sounds like "teaching her a lesson" to me. It can also take the form of "I'll show her/him". That was a difficult concept for me to understand but once I accepted that I was responsible for learning my own lessons instead of trying to control what he would or would not learn, I started making significant progress in my recovery--especially in the area of resentment.

I'm going to stop now because I need to be careful of going too far down memory lane, kwim?

Take care

BK asks a very good and very relevant question, since your son is the "innocent bystander" in all of this, who is affected by what either of his parents does, or doesn't do.

Certainly this is a tough decision for you, and one that you perhaps need to take to the Lord for some direction. You probably already have done that, but if you are reaching a real "decision point," it would be helpful to seek God's help, especially with respect to the sort of "WWJD" question.

Whatever you choose to do, you will also be "modeling" for your son, which is why I think BK asked a good question since it is rare that our decisions only affect ourselves alone.

Praying for God's wisdom and direction as you struggle with this decision.


P.S. There is a very good litle pamphlet called "When Anger Burns", by Tim Jackson, part of the RBC "Discovery Series". It might be of some use for your ex-wife. If you'd like a copy I can tell you were you can get one (your church might already have a copy) or I could type it in and email it to you.

I think this is a great idea. Maybe you should also tell your son that you've given her this choice so he will see dad is NOT tolerant of abuse and WILL take a stand, but at the same time, showing some compassion for his mom, by giving her a choice. If she makes the wrong choice, then it's on her and hopefully your son will recognize that.

report filed first thing this morning.
my son and I sat down with my IC this morning and discussed things...that went very well.
The ex has already agreed to go meet with a director at a local abuse shelter and will work with her (I know her very well) to get the help she needs. Any more outburst will result in charges being brought.

Thanks to all who have posted their advice and for your help. I appreciate the time oyu took to reach out to me.

Was working with someone who you know the only option you gave your ex? Or did she have several referrals to choose from and she chose to see someone you know?

What do you (and your son) gain or lose by your ex seeing someone you know? What does your ex gain or lose?

What would you (and your son) gain or lose by your ex seeing someone you didn't already know? What would your ex gain or lose?

Although there are confidentiality rules, it is common knowledge that there can be quite a bit of whispering "off the record" especially with law enforcement personnel (or ex-personnel). If that had anything to do with why you chose this director (not saying it did, just asking if), I encourage you to reconsider and talk to your IC about it before coming to a decision.

I know from experience that these types of questions are hard to ask of oneself but doing so can aid significantly in the recovery process.

Take care

I did talk to the IC about it. He is 100% on board with this plan and helped formulate it.

I see no advantage to he working with someone I do not know. What she gains or loses is not really a concern of mine at this point.

Working with this person means it is someone I trust and know has my best interest at heart. There will be NO confidentiality...she has already agreed to this. The ex does not get to set any of the rules here.

She was just "interviewed" by the state police from my area (she lives only 15-20 minutes from here but is in a different state). There is little doubt in her mind as to what will happen if she doesn't follow this through.

Thanks for your thoughts.

she "loves me" and wants to give me nothing but happiness. Plus she wants to put our family back together.
She hasn't been involved with her "john" in a few years now.


I guess that would vary. I never really did a Plan B.



She wants to kick her asss.
She's always been like this though...every time the ex has seen me get close to someone, she suddenly "can't live without me." It really is pathetic.



Thanks...those posters really had me shaking my head. It seems they just don't get it.


the funny thing is...while being rude to her might have been called for...I was really polite and actually felt bad for her in a way...she has trashed her life. And she suddenly just lost it. She had been trying to pull out all the stops to get close to me...I think it is finally sinking in that it will never work. She is frustrated at herself and take it out on me.



Thanks for your support and I hope you are doing well.

MEDC

medc,

I thought I posted this reply, but I don't see it on here so I may have had a computer glitch.



This is your answer. As much as you don't want to do it, you know that if this occurs again, you HAVE to take action. Otherwise, she will never be accountable for her actions and have no consequences.

You know your situation best and you have the experience and background to know what to do. It's hard when it hits home, but I think that your post shows that you have been processing this and know that your next step is to actually have her arrested. I even think that part of that closure was putting it here in writing.

I sure hope she doesn't act out again too. It's sad for all of you.

Good luck.

How very sad, but even more sad is that the child appears to be making a decision about his Mom needing to be arrested.


Why is a child put in that position?

He is on the fence with HIS feelings about having her put in jail?

There is something inherently wrong with that.

He doesn't have a dog in this fight.

This is between two ADULTS.

How awful for him.

committed

You know, I happen to agree with this and BA109s' post.

Why are you discussing your dating life with someone you supposedly disdain as you do.

Why is your son subjected to giving his input on his parents marital (or ex marital)(drama, drama, drama) disputes.

You said MEDC that your son would be broken hearted if his mom was arrested, and so should he be.

This is wrong on so many levels.

I would rather cut my own arm off than have my DD have to be party to a decision to have her father arrested.

This is about your boundaries, MEDC. They are in serious need of evaluation and implementation.

Discussing your dating life with your ex sounds self serving to me. Like keeping her hanging on, on some level.

Remember we all play a part in all of our own relationships and how they play out.

Beware the victim role.

And I mean this in all sincerety.

I love m DD more than life itself, so I do what I can to further her relationship with her dad. And for us, that meant severing any R on a personal level between him and I. For reasons you have clearly demonstrated here. I loved that man more than I can ever say, but I value his R with our DD even more.


Take care, MEDC.

Yes, he is on the fence about his feelings about that. Perfectly normal. What SHOULD he be saying???? Throw her in jail.
He KNOWS that assault is a crime and while he is NOT making the decision about it...of course he would have mixed feelings about that. What is so strange about that????


Have you missed something here???? His mom chose to act out like this in front of him...she put him in the fight, sadly.

There is something wrong with your statement that he shouldn't have feelings about this. Of course he would. I would hate to have parents that didn't take my feelings seriously. He already has his mom who was willing to injure him by acting out in front of him....he doesn't need another parent acting like his feelings do not matter.

Perhaps you are having a hard time with the written word as well. I did NOT want to discuss this with her. She knows I date...and SHE interjected some unwanted conversation about wanting to spend time with me. I am very comfortable with my boundaries...and trust me...if I were your ex I COULD violate your boundaries anytime I choose to do so. How you respond to that violation is entirely in your control.


I did not choose to have him witness her attacking me...how dare you. IF your ex husband freaked out for no reason and you needed to respond to that...I only hope your daughter wouldn't be present. I would have done anything for him to not witness that. But when she attacked me and I said I would have her arrested if she didn't stop...of course he would have an opinion on that.

All I can say is thank God for my IC and people both on and off this site that know which end is up.

IF I had initiated the act...I would agree.
IF I had asked my son if she should be arrested and laid that on him, I would agree.

Neither of those things happened.
If/when your ex comes over and belts you one day...I will make sure to tell you that your boundaries need honing. I won't pay attention to the facts...I will speculate and run my mouth.

anything self serving about the above post???? It was the same answer I always give and it is thoroughly appropriate. IF she doesn't accept it, that is her problem. What is it about that statement that you see as keeping her hanging on????

I would love to see the answer to that!

her apology letter...my son's name and salutations removed.

NOTHING...he should not be placed in this position.

"So, Son...how do you feel....think we should have your Mom put in jail"?

Why was the question even posed to him?

Adults don't do that kind of thing.

If he came to you with some type of comment you should have eased his concerns right there by letting him know that he didn't need to worry about that. It was a decision that would be made by the ADULT.



I have missed NOTHING. His PARENTS chose to put him in this fight. He can just easily be removed from all this crap with a little forethought.

I know many parents that have to remove themself from the other parent.

You don't have to be interact when she picks up your son or drops him back off. He can walk out to her car alone, or he can get out of her car and walk into the house where you are.

If she has done this multiple times (5) you need to get a clue and change what YOU are doing.



Of course he has feelings...he shouldn't be asked to help decide whether or not his Mom should go to jail. That is what I meant about you saying that he is "on the fence".

committed

Well, I guess that's a start. Sounds like a lawyer wrote it.

Medc, I don't know your situation well. From what I've read recently, it sounds as if your son is 10 or older. I personally think when a child is that old, sometimes you need to talk to them about the actions you are considering. Getting their input isn't bad so long as they know they have limited influence and no authority/control. Sounds like that might be your situation.

Also, for what it's worth, I recognize your ex must have done something atrocious to lose her legal rights. Even when a parent has full physical custody, they are rarely awarded full legal custody.

Just saw this in your response to weaver.




Then what was the comment "on the fence" about?

I am struggling with having her arrested at this point. My son is on the fence about it and feels that his mom has really crossed a line this time.

You are struggling with the decision, and he is on the fence. It would lead a person to think that he has been placed in the decision making on this issue.

Who placed him on that fence?


committed

he's 12 (very bright as well...starts high school this year as a 12 year old...eeek!) and we have a wonderful relationship. I DO talk to him about his feelings about things. In this case, I most likely would not have IF his mom had not involved him. He does not get burdened with the decision making end of things...but does have opportunity to express his feelings.

As for her letter...it's just the way she writes...very much in control...she can be the exact opposite in person. Go figure.

How he FEELS about it. Not what we should DO(as if that would be HIS call). Feelings vs. actions.

It means exactly what it says....




As it turns out...most here were able to read what was actually written rather than speculate. First BA telling me I was lying...and then a lot of assumptions.




Mickey Mouse. How can you even ask that question after reading this thread?

My son has a real sense of justice. If he sees someone abuse an animal...he knows where they should be. If he sees someone abuse a person...he knows the same thing. SINCE HIS MOM chose to act this way in front of him, he now has mixed FEELINGS (sitting on the fence) as to his mom being arrested.

That question was not posed to him.

What WAS asked of him so that you can stop with your speculating...

"If dad feels that calling the police is the best thing here...are you going to be okay with that?"


Once again you ran with assumptions and they are making you look ridiculous.