I have had 2 txt from Mr LIL. the first asking me to write the NC letter, the 2nd saying he can see he is an addict.
I ahve yet to respond.
I would like to tell him to start a thread her and get advice from the vets.
i do not want him home yet. i do not want my heart broekn a 3rd time.

Please advise

I think U should respond to him.

IMO, this is between U and your husband.

OR..consult with the Harleys.

THAT was the FIRST CALL that I made....

Steve Harley told me to respond SUCCINCTLY and BRIEFLY..

"Get rid of the OW"...

I suggest telling HIM to write the NC LETTER..

Well, you have always loved him through all of this. So it is good news.

And he seems to realize that he is addicted to the OW. He must know in his heart that he is making a HUGE mistake if he continues with her. I hated to see the trainwreck about to happen because your hubby seemed like a good guy.

He is asking about a nc letter which is the first step.

I would tell him that you WANT to recover your marriage, but what would be different from last time?

text him the Harley phone number

Call toll-free 1 (888) 639-1639



Tell him: "Let me know when you've had 2 sessions with this counseling center. Until then - I wish you well"

Congratulations, Lil! I also think that the no contact letter is a start...at least he is willing to do that. I also agree with the other posters that he should have a talk with Mr. Harley. That would be good for BOTH of you.

I'm praying for you.

((((((Lil))))))

I txt him and told him to join mb, post and ask for advice, is it over with her?

he replied he has told her there will be no contact ever, he will do the Mb thing and will come on mb as soon as he can get online.

at a guess he is on his way to FIL's

Good advice. See, the problem now is that he said he would have no contact with her before, and he broke that promise. So it makes it very difficult to trust him now.

Do they still work together? I forgot whether they do or not. If so, that job has to end.

I've really been praying for him that he doesn't mess up his life by getting more involved with the OW. It is a deadend street, and I was really afraid she would hook him by getting PG. She has enough of her own problems that she needs to look at and work on, without dragging some nice guy into the mix.

Here is what the Harley's say about ending the affair -

Once an affair is first revealed, whether it's discovered or admitted, the victimized spouse is usually in a state of shock. The first reaction is usually panic, but it's quickly followed by anger. Divorce and sometimes even murder are contemplated. But after some time passes (usually about three weeks), most couples decide that they will try to pull together and save their marriage.

The one having an affair is in no position to bargain, but he or she usually tries anyway. The bargaining effort usually boils down to somehow keeping the lover in the loop. You'd think that the unfaithful spouse would be so aware of his or her weaknesses, and so aware of the pain inflicted, that every effort would be made to avoid further contact with the lover as an act of thoughtfulness to the stunned spouse. But instead, the unfaithful spouse argues that the relationship was "only sexual" or was "emotional but not sexual" or some other peculiar description to prove that continued contact with the lover would be okay.

Most victimized spouses intuitively understand that all contact with a lover must end for life. Permanent separation not only helps prevent a renewal of the affair, but it is also a crucial gesture of consideration to someone who has been through hell. What victimized spouse would ever want to know that his or her spouse is seeing or communicating with a former lover at work or in some other activity?

In spite of career sacrifices, friendships, and issues relating to children's schooling, I am adamant in recommending that there be no contact with a former lover for life. For many, that means a move to another state. But to do otherwise fails to recognize the nature of addiction and its cure.

Look at M.S.'s husband. Here he is, thousands of miles from his lover, and yet he still feels compelled to call her. Can you imagine the trouble M.S. would have had separating them if they had not moved? Their move was the best thing that could have happened to their marriage because it not only revealed the affair, but it also set up the conditions that would make ending it possible -- total separation.

We don't know if R.J. still sees his lover, but he says he has broken off all contact. In many cases where a person is still in town, that's hard to prove. But one thing's for sure, if he ever does see his lover, it will put him in a state of perpetual withdrawal from his addiction, and make the resolution of his marriage essentially impossible. In fact, one of the reasons he is not recovering after three months of separation may be that he is not being truthful about the separation.

How should an unfaithful spouse tell his lover that their relationship is over? If left to their own devices, many would take a Caribbean cruise to say their final good-byes. Obviously, that will not do. In fact, I recommend that the final good-bye be in the form of a letter, and not in person or even by telephone.

My advice is to write a final letter in a way that the victimized spouse would agree to send it. It should begin with a statement of how selfish it was to cause those they loved so much pain, and while marital reconciliation cannot completely repay the offense, it's the right thing to do. A statement should be made about how much the unfaithful spouse cares about his spouse and family, and for their protection, has decided to completely end the relationship with the lover. He or she has promised never to see or communicate with the lover again in life, and asks the lover to respect that promise. Nothing should be said about how much the lover will be missed. After the letter is written, the victimized spouse should read and approve it before it is sent.

And here is what the Harley's say about withdrawal. Thought I would post it because it seems to be where your hubby struggled.

How to Get Through Withdrawal

In R.J.'s case, his feelings for his wife are as bad as they have ever been. In the case of M.S.'s husband, he is suffering so much that he can no longer make love to his wife, something that had always come very easily to him in the past. What is happening to these men?

They are experiencing symptoms of withdrawal from the addiction they have to their lovers.

As soon as a victimized spouse decides to stay married and struggle through reconciliation, he or she usually sets out to meet whatever needs the lover had been meeting. If it was sex, the spouse offers more and better sex. If it was affection, it's more affection. Both M.S. and R.J.'s wife were willing to do whatever it took to regain their wayward spouses' love.

But it didn't work for either of them. That's because both of their husbands were in withdrawal. They were both addicted to their lovers and separation from them caused them to suffer from depression. That, in turn, made it almost impossible for their spouses to meet their emotional needs. So all of that love and care that was being extended to them was being wasted. Until they would recover from withdrawal, the efforts of their wives to please them will be very disappointing.

Withdrawal is the emotional reaction to the loss of something that gives great pleasure. It's similar to the feelings an alcoholic has when he makes a commitment never to drink again. It's also similar to the grief that comes from the loss of a loved one. A lover is like alcohol and like a loved one. Not only do unfaithful spouses miss what it was their lovers did, meeting important emotional needs, but they also miss the person they had come to love.

Our most common emotions are anger, anxiety and depression. Symptoms of withdrawal usually include all of these in a very intense form. I usually suggest that anti-depressant medication be used to help alleviate these symptoms. While the most intense symptoms of withdrawal usually last only about three weeks, in some cases they can linger for six months or longer before they start to fade.

It is extremely likely that a commitment to remain separated from a lover will be broken unless extreme measures are taken to avoid it. That's because the emotional reaction of withdrawal is so painful. Honesty is an extremely important element in reconciliation, and it should be understood that if the unfaithful spouse ever sees or communicates with the lover, he or she should immediately tell the spouse that it happened. They should then agree on a plan that would prevent a recurrence of contact in the future. But as soon as any contact is made, it throws the unfaithful spouse back to the beginning of withdrawal, and the time it takes to overcome the feelings of grief begins all over again.

There's a sense in which M.S.'s husband was in withdrawal even before M.S. discovered Learn More!

"Surviving an Affair"
the affair. As soon as the move was made, he became depressed, and what M.S. noticed the most was his lack of interest in sex. Depression will do that to you (and so will anti-depressant medication -- one of it's only side effects is a loss of sex drive).

If M.S.'s husband were to avoid talking to his lover for three weeks, it's likely that his sex drive would start to return, since the worst symptoms of withdrawal would probably have ended. He has a long history of sexual interest in his wife, and I guarantee that he will eventually do just fine in bed.

The problem that R.J. may soon face is that his wife's cheerful attitude will wear thin. There's no telling how much longer she can try to please him without an approving response from him. Sometimes I tell spouses to just avoid each other until the withdrawal stage passes because all the effort to be kind and thoughtful is easily wasted until they start feeling better.

It's the stage of recovery after withdrawal that gives spouses the best opportunity to learn to meet each other's most important emotional needs and overcome Love Busters. Spouses should save their most tolerant mood for that stage, where they could both be receptive to each other's care. And that will be the subject of next week's column: Learning to meet each other's needs after an affair.

Lil -

I am keeping my fingers crossed for you. I pray the Mr. Lil comes here. That would be such a good sign.

Lil, FWIW I think your WH sounds like a good guy too. I think when he came home last time to "make things work" he didn't really know what that looked like. I think he would be very receptive to MB and I would be very happy to talk to him, kiwi to kiwi. I think he might appreciate someone who has been there (as a WS) and understands New Zealanders.

I can understand why you're so wary but this sounds different to me.

Her HOPEFULLY FORMER WH may turn out to be a good guy. But there is NO SUCH THING as a "good guy/gal" WS. That is impossible.

Until otherwise proven, he is still WH to me.

he has txt to say he will do whatever it takes to fix our relationship

Thank you jen, I do appreiciate it. I do not know what name he will post under.
When/if he comes I will stay away from his thread.

That's true MEDC.

I'm happy to help, Lil, and it is a very good idea to keep off his threads.

I hope he shows up.

lil, I'm happy to hear about this at-least-step in the right direction!

I am worried though, like believer said, BTDT. Yes, get *him* to write the NCL and let you read over it, edit and/or approve it, and see it being mailed.

What were the other conditions you listed in your PBL?

Here's a thought, just a thought: how about keeping him out of the house and insisting on a very restricted sort of dating? I'm thinking of protecting your kids from being disappointed if he moves back into their lives again only to leave again.

But if someone else disagrees, take their advice. I'm only online briefly, that's just my first instinct.

My prayers are with you!

True MEDC. He is still a WS, but I have high hopes for him. I think he just got entrapped with the damsel in distress OW that he worked with. LilDoggie is a strong and capable woman and I think the Mr. felt needed by the OW.

Yes, LilDoggie, stay off of his thread. Really you shouldn't even read it. I'm sure he will say some hurtful things and you will want to respond. But if he posts, he has to be able to be truthful.

Same.
This will be my last post on this thread. WH has already found me on MB a couple of times, and I do not think he will aprreiciate seeing the title of this thread. please let it die down, post on my "dark lildoggie" thread if you have futher advice for me.
before i do leave this one tho, some back ground info on the sitch.....

WH and OW worked together over the holiday period, at easter OW moved up north to be with her kids, WH moved south to care for FIL. I started plan A. FIL died 14th May. WH, our girls and I went to rarotonga for a holiday 25 may, back to NZ 2 june. WH asked to come home 6th june, came back 10th june,no NC letter ever sent. 3 weeks false recovery due to WH making contact with OW via facebook. WH went to FIL's twice to "mow lawns and do paper work" used these times to escalate contact with OW. WH went to England for 'holiday' 30th june after giving me his apsswords. i discovered via passwords he had contact july 6. Plan B letter send 7th july.

well, if he is such a weak man that he cannot appreciate a strong and capable woman....why take him back? He didn't get caught up(or entrapped) in anything...he made choices to hurt his wife and family with lies and infidelity.

I think Mrs. Lil should consider taking him back if she wants too...but, until he changes his ways...he is really a terrible person doing terrible things. BUT, he can change.

so what? I mean, why give a hoot if he appreciates you getting help/support. It really isn't any of his business IMO. I will respect your wishes to let it lay...but I really don't get it at all.