And let me say THANK YOU to MelodyLane. I at first could not / would not believe what she was saying. But she persisted and got through my thick skull what was going on. And now I read about the pain she has experienced. So here is a wonderful example of a person who has taken that pain and used it to help others. I suspect she will never know how much.

I am here to testify on how she has helped me. I used to cringe when I saw here reply to one of my pleas for direction. She was the plaster to fit the sore. You are doing a good thing here MelodyLane. I appreciate how you reached out to me during the most difficult time in my life. Keep up the good work.

God Bless

Thanks MEDC. I appreciate that you took the time to understand how that post affected me. I may be a 'newbie' here but that does not negate my input. It seems everyone judges your life experience based on your sign up date! That just pisses me off royally. I'm 2 years into a recovery that would make most men crawl and hide under a rock. I've kept my vows and paid a price no former wayward could ever comprehend. To have one condemn me as useless here tells me something of their heart.

Sometimes I don't understand some people here. If I saw someone getting raped my first instinct would be to crack the skull of the rapist, not stand next to him and talk him out of it. God help the wayward if I found out their name. Their spouse would get a call in seconds.

Again, thanks MEDC.

I agree 100%.


and you're welcome.

Thank you so much for your kind words, bcboy. And thank you for listening!

You would be a very good man for doing that IAM...Not only would you be helping to bring truth to the life of the victim of the wayward, but you could also very well be giving LIFE to the wayward...Exposure is a wonderful thing...

See, I believe what the Bible says about there being no unrepentant adulterers in Heaven, and I know that I owe my life to those who helped save me from myself...That includes Mr. W, my mom, The Harleys and so many people here - BSs and FWSs alike...

Someone earlier in this thread, (it may have been you IAM), suggested that BSs only post to BSs and WSs only post to WSs, but I must say that I will be eternally grateful to EVERYONE that posted to me, but most especially those dear BSs that helped me "get it" in a way that I'm sure no others could have...

And you are right IAM, there is no way that I could fully comprehend what it's like to be a BS - Mr. W cheated on me many times prior to marriage, but I understand that isn't the same...I have given as much effort as possible towards empathy...I cry many times in reading the stories here...Mr. W allowed me to read his journal from the time that I was wayward - I feel that really helped me to, at least partially, grasp just what I had done to him, my understanding that has been very beneficial to our recovery...

Anyway IAM, just thought I'd share...I wish you and your wife all the best in continuing recovery...

Mrs. W

I hate waywards. I hate them in real life and I hate them here.

I read WS threads to help understand what happened in my own M and to help me deal with my WstbxH and his tantrums.

I post to WS's in the hopes of helping them out of the fog, not for their benefit but for that of their BS. I would sure get a lot of satisfaction knocking them down with a 2x4, and I don't hesitate to if after a few posts they still refuse to see daylight. But for the sake of their BS, who I feel a strong connection with regardless of if they ever post here or not, I try to help.

I find it therapeutic, even though my own M will never be saved. Pain doesn't vanish simply because you make a decision.

It is important to understand how an affair works, I will agree with that much, but I see no need in understanding how a wayward mind works. I can't believe that I am going to for the first time probably ever, disagree with ole 2long. All I need to know about something that doesn't work is that it doesn't work. If I want to change my life I need to understand what people who have successful lives do to become successful. Not how unsuccessful people get that way.

But had I been married to someone I loved and who was once a good person, than I suppose I would have had to understood in order to want to try and rebuild with them. You would have to in order to have faith that whatever it was could be undone.

Pep,


This father loved both his sons very much, and the obedient son was able through his fathers example and love to love the wayward brother as his father did, even though it wasn't fair.

I attribute this to a father and brothers love, not to forgiveness. Because if you truly love someone, as a parent does his child, there would be nothing to forgive, love simply is, it is not dependent on anothers actions.

And I will never understand how in the Bible it states that God loves the lost sheep more than the rest of His sheep. Why? I don't really want an answer to that, just stating one of the things that never really rang true for me. Amazing Grace used to be one of my favorite hymms, but now I think it is over romanticized when someone turns from being lost and finally finds their way home. It is far better in my opinion to never have been lost in the first place. So again one needs to study the road that leads to success, not the road that leads to destruction and then make a uturn and go find the right road.

Just my opinion and one that is ever changing at that.

See, I think you are saying that one should not understand the WS mind in order to give it CREDENCE? Is that what you are saying?

I do agree with that.

On the other hand, I do see a need for understanding the wayward mind for the purpose of SELF PROTECTION. I very much DO understand the wayward mind and how deceitful and cruel and selfish it is. I think is important for a BS to understand it so they can protect themselves and so they can call the WS on their bullcrap.

Most BS' who come here cannot FATHOM what they are up against. Some refuse to believe it and as a result, leave themselves in the path of danger. We have had some very gullible BS' over the years. Some who been here for years tolerating abuse.

A few years back there was a thread where a few WW's pretty much posted exclusively to each other. It was a hot mess. They treated each other like victims - which is not unusual after a wayward gets caught. In their eyes, it was the perfect thread - they "validated" each other's feelings which was the most important goal for them, as opposed to seeking truth and taking steps to recover their marriages. (it turned out that two of the women posting was actually ONE woman posing as two or more posters .... but that's another story and NOT the point I want to make). The point I want to make is that waywards who are early in the process of recovering their marriage are not likely to get far into recovery without someone with more experience to push/coax them away from their "feelings" and consider the process.

And, if two or more recently betrayed spouses post exclusively to each other - they too will get bogged down with OP bashing and encourage each other to make a ton of emotional decisions which put their marriage deeper in the mud.

The process is the gold we mine here. The process is valid for WS and BS alike. The process works best under ideal situations

- longer marriage as opposed to brand new marriage
- history of many "good years"
-no previous adultery
-no other addictive behaviors
-no history of actual abuse
-no OC to deal with
-the affair lasted less than 3 years
-mental illness is not at play

Having said that, there have been recovered marriages that have one or more of the above list. My own for instance. My husband was a drinking alcoholic at D day. Kimmy's marriage has recovered 2 OC bumps in the road. etc.

The process can be taught. The way to effectively teach the process varies with the sort of ears the listener has. The WS or the BS can be equally vulnerable to emotional outbursts.

I've learned that if I take the time to assess a person's strengths - it gives me a starting point for teaching the process. That's why I ask questions before I get myself involved more than a few quick posts. I know that learning a person's strengths does not mean analyzing a person's background to death.

It is especially important not to dive too deeply into old issues during a crisis.


"Your house house is on fire - tell me about your relationship with your parents."

Doing this also gives the WS or BS an excuse to not apply the process - "I was abused as a child and I have intimacy issues." "Who cares! Your house is engulfed in flames - grab a hose and squirt!"

So - my point is to learn the process that MB offers - and to find a way to express it to others in need.

And guess what - the process is a great equalizer - the process is respectful - the process is empowering - actually working the process and sticking with it when tempted to veer off into emotional quicksand is how marriages get recoverd.

And isn't that the point?

Pep

Great post Pep. *applause from E.*

I am the FWW... and quite frankly I glean more from talking to BS than I do other FWWs. I don't want validation-- and I know that most other FWWs are going thru what I am-- we put ourselves here. Sometimes I look at other FWS threads to see what worked for them in particular situations-- but never, ever to commiserate.

I don't even know if I'd post anymore if I couldn't post to BSs. We all know "our" side of the tracks well. Its learning the other side of the tracks that will help in recovery...

E.

A perfect example of the blind leading the blind......into the ditch. :eek:

And one more thought:

There is freedom here to post advice based solely and completely on one's personal opinion, which ignores the MB process.

I don't remember one single person who actually applied the process in their own life, and then reverting back to ignoring the process when handing out advice to others.

Once you've used the process - you pass it along because it helped you - even if your marriage did not make it - it helped you recover.

Pep

I agree wholeheartedly with eeyoree. If I were limited to communicating with BS's only, I'd stop posting. I would like to think that I could just hash out problems with fellow BS's, but I'm not naive enough to think that we wouldn't just end up WS bashing after a while.

I get a lot of information from communicating with FW's.

Not because I was once a WW or a BW I try to just give my 2 cents on what I went thru on both sides.

Pepperband, and JL were very helpful when I first came here.

I admire how everyone responds *in the good way* to reach out to both sides. Thats what this site is about. Helping a M recover not to degrade, not to accuse. And yeah somethings what is said ppl wont like. Thats there problem. If you cant take the heat then either you are to far out to reach, or you just dont want to hear it. Well guess what if you cant take it then dont give it out there to get responses too.

I love reading JL's post because yeah hes blunt to a point but makes clear points just like Melody does too. Medc is a straight talker and will lay it out there to open eyes up.

Everyone here has been hurt in one shape way or form. Isnt this site suppose to be a support group and full of resources to 'help'?

Everyone has there own writting techniques. If you do not like a situation you read then guess what move on, dont write to them and let them go and someone will come along and help them.

If it wasnt for MB my DH and I would probally be in our old ways. Fighting and bringing up addictions, both of our A's, etc.. We wouldnt be happy at all. Reading Dr Harleys articles and reading what you all post we have used here at home has made the recovery alot easier.

Thank you to the vets that have been around for a bit and are still helping those thru the healing process.

Shoot, if I remember correctly they talked about their OM and how much they missed them...how they were such a perfect match....how they got needs met by the OM...ad nauseum.

I thought I had stumbled into a forum on another site...if you know what I mean.

They routinely walked down memory lane and I would think "how is this even helping with their marriages?"

It is good that someone calls that kind of posting out.

committed

At least a couple of the WW's on that disgusting thread were in active affairs at the time. That thread was not about recovery, but about lowering the bar to make the unacceptable acceptable. "Validation," my hiney. I gave a couple of those gals "validation" with my Texas 2x4.

Oi. How did the mods let that get by? Geez, I've seen far less destructive threads get locked down and/or moved or deleted.

I'm guessing the mod-police weren't in full force back then? It just seems that even if you only had ONE mod, that kinda thread if it persisted for more than a day, would get tossed!

And BTW-- the thought of OM right now makes me want to puke. Honestly, I AM GLAD there's NC. Quite frankly, if I saw him I might puke on his shoes. Just the mere thought of him right now is upsetting my stomach. So anyone that can sit there and reminisce about how great OM is-- is still foggy. Period. NC is a great "awakener" if you do it right-- and I don't even have to TRY to maintain NC anymore-- I WANT TO. And not just for my marriage. Because I quite frankly, HATE HIM. Even if my M went belly up, I'm pretty sure he'd either have a black eye, be missing a b@ll, or be wearing my puke if I ran into him....

E.

The better way, I think, is to shove the process at them at every opportunity - they hated me for not being sensitive to their feelings.

I ignored their feelings while trying to help their marriage - and once you sense that a persons feelings and emotions-run-amok are running the show - it's time to push the process harder - whilst wearing an asbestos suit. Venom will be spat. I've had my shots - venom doesn't worry me.

Pep

But the opposite of love is not hate, but indifference...you know that, right?

Given time, NC will accomplish indifference for you...it's not something you can work at, it will just come...

Mrs. W

I am going to call a spade a spade, a lot of you are justifying reasons for being rude and nasty. Sure some people respond to that type of treatment, but when someone doesn't then you need a different tone. The notion of accept it or get out helps marriages how? Because tell you what if someone does not like your presentation style your message gets lost in the noise. Like it or not the "veterans" here are representing the MB principles and basically selling the ideas to people like me a WS. In business its NEVER the job of the customer to understand the ideas beginning presented it is always the job of the salesman to find a way to successfully sell the idea.

I am sure there are lots of WS's that come here look around and leave because of the tone of this site. You may not like WS's but we do need help like anyone else. Given the fact we maybe in withdrawal, fog, denial etc... selling the idea of staying with the M can be difficult at best.

Everyone here has valid opinions and ideas, just not to every audience. Pick and choose who is accepting of your presentation method since that gets the MB principles across and saves marriages which is supposed to be the point right.