It's been infrequent and rather mediocre. We tried to have romantic meals, odd nights away, candles, baths. Sometimes sex would happen but only once or not at all. Not that he didn't want to.

It didn't feel like 'making love' for me. I didn't feel in love - it was not coming from a deep connected place within in me. You know, maybe I'm just crap at it.

Hi

Yes, I do feel his desire for me. He does hold his desire back for me. I cannot begin to tell you how bad that makes me feel. Yes, he does feel that if he tries to show me love he will be rejected. Why should he expect any different. How does a guy hold in there all these years? I think maybe the belief that I will sort myself out one day?

Do I need to be on another discussion forum?

Seabird, I'm not sure but I think the fog can continue for years, and always remain a threat to intimacy, if not properly dealt with - for instance, if it was just swept under the rug, or with the thought that it's in the past, and you should just get over it and move on.

When, did you guys go through a full recovery from the affair? Did you send a NC letter, and work to heal the damage to your M and your H? Do you think he's more passive as a result of your A, maybe in fear that you will leave? Could this passivity be backfiring?

If the OM actively pursued you, and your H is more passive (respectful), could that be a contributing factor? Do you prefer the man to pursue you and take a more active role?

Are you attracted to someone whose strength you respect?

I was attracted to that someones strength but soon learned it was nothing to be respected. That person who was confident, cocky, didn't care about what people thought of him. Charming blah blah blah. He is a lawyer, ruthless, doesn't care but wants to be liked by everyone. It was flattering to have his full attention and overpowering. I was supremely stupid. I realized eventually and worked hard on getting away from him and it took some time. Writing a NC letter would have been met with hilarity. When I would ask for him to not contact me and even if I had a weak moment - please don't reply, he would respond by saying that I was being "juvenile and why couldn't I just have fun. "Why was I being a drama queen". He wouldn't let it get on a real level. So, I just stopped talking and he stopped talking.

My H and I have talked a lot about the A. We spent almost 3 months apart. I lived with a girlfriend. I honestly don't know if he has dealt with it completely. He says it is in the past now. He has worked on trusting me again. We saw a counselor but I really don't know where all the pain and hurt has gone in him and how he dealt with it.

Yes, I would like a less passive man but that's who he is so....

Although Jayne241, I know for a fact that if I was ever to have an affair again, he would be gone. Nothing passive about that.

NO NO NO! That is who you have trained him to be. He is afraid to be anything else. Afraid he will be rejected. Which is painful. So he no longer tries to be aggressive.

This is where honesty comes in. You tell him what you want. Even if you think he can't be it. Even if you think he will lose respect for you if you admit it. You ask him to try to be what you need him to be.

And then you praise the heck out of him when he tries. Even if he is awkward and unskilled. Because he is trying. And that praise will feel like success to him. And he will become more confident. And more skilled. And then his attempts to be sexually aggressive will be more integrated.

It will take time. And practice. And trial and error to find what you like and don't like. Which means there will be failure. And you need to be playful and gracious when he fails.

Or you can leave him. And go find another man who already is confident. But not married. Which means he probably gained at least some of his confidence at the expense of women who were mislead as to his intentions. Is that who you want to reward. Another jerk like your affair partner? Instead of the man who has given you his life and raised children with you and patiently waited for you? Argh! Sorry for being so harsh. Some of what you write is triggering for me. Shouldn't take it out on you.

Yes, maybe your H is a passive man. And I understand many women find that unattractive. But are you 100% sure that he can't learn to be less passive if you give him permission and encouragement to be less passive?

Even if it might be embarrassing for you, wouldn't it be worth it? Surely it doesn't matter what the OM thinks. Would your H appreciate the gesture?


Could he have stuffed the hurt and pain, especially since he tends to be passive? Is he more passive after the A?

What do you mean, he has worked on trusting you again? This doesn't sound very MB. Generally, the betrayed spouse is considered justified in not trusting, and it is up to the wayward spouse to rebuild trust, and to take extreme actions to help the betrayed spouse heal. Did you make a lot of effort to do these things?

Is Admiration one of his top ENs? If you admired him and built up his self-confidence, do you think he'd be more active, more aggressive (in a good way) pursuing you? And thus more attractive to you?

I think I hear you saying you continue to reject him sexually, is this true? I would imagine he could feel pretty beat-down and demoralized, if his wife had an affair and then continued to reject him sexually. And the more demoralized he feels, the more passive he becomes, and the less you are attracted to him... a vicious spiral downward. And so now he doesn't even attempt to initiate SF, is this correct?

OTOH if you start giving him Words of Admiration, showing him Affection and Admiration, in my experience you WILL start to have more feelings of admiration toward him; and as he feels more like you like him, his self-confidence will improve, and he will be even more attractive to you.

Would you consider doing a phone counseling session with the Harleys?

hold, looks like we posted at exactly the same time, with similar messages! I agree with exactly what hold is saying. How could your poor H be anything other than passive, with all the rejection.

Two assignments for you:

(1) Find a counselor for you and your H to go to. Together or separate, preferably separate. He needs to deal with the A, and you need to deal with your FOO issues, and to be able to admit that sex is ok, not a sin.

(2) Go to the bookstore and buy this book: 52 Invitations to Grrreat Sex. Don't buy a used copy, cos you need it intact. Promise me you will buy it. Share it with your H, look at it together, and put it somewhere that both of you can get to it, cos there are invitations for the woman to the man, and there are invitations for the man to the woman. These are great, amazing! ways for the two of you to explore your SF time, in a healthy, loving way. I can't recommend it highly enough. I think if the two of you try it out together, you will be amazed at how much you will both start to enjoy your bedroom time.

So, praise him, start to 'feign' affection and things will change for me and him.

By the way, he joined a men's group for separated and divorced men and I think he got a lot from that.

I don't mean to imply that HE only had to learn to trust me. Of course I had to earn it and be accountable etc.

So, that's basically the answer.

Sorry it's bitty.... distracted.

when - I don't know if you understand this part yet... You need to look beyond mere tactics. "If you do X, then Y will happen."

You need to understand the reason for why things are the way they are. To understand why his passivity has become reinforced due to your repeated rejection of him along with your lack of openness and honesty re your needs.

I GET it Seabird and others that's it's my fault that he's even more passive and rejected. I GET IT. I feel pretty lambasted. However, I am not going to respond to him out of pity and guilt. I don't want to be with him just out of guilt. Been there done that. He doesn't need or deserve that. I couldn't feel any more bad than I do. I have said sorry so many times to him and said you should leave me to find someone else but he hasn't. I'm very aware of his pain. That's why I am here. That's why I need help or we have to call this marriage to an end.

I have been open and honest about my needs in the last 2/3 years. Is his passivity reinforced because I have shared my needs too?

So, if the general consensus is that if I change my vocabulary towards him, my feelings will change then I will really try it. I will try anything. It's a last ditch attempt.

Holdingontoit

My H was pretty much trained by his parents to not stand up for himself. To pretty much be quiet and not cause a fuss. He brought this to the marriage and I helped him in his work to not let others walk over him. To be confident in not accepting the status quo. To stand up for himself. He was not aggressive. Funnily enough, he accepted the status quo with me. We weren't honest with each other when we could have been from the beginning of our marriage.

So years later, we wonder if we can really change things. It seems it may be possible from what you say.

I must be missing something here. You say you are at the end of your rope.

Yet, you have never been attracted to your husband, this problem is not a new thing. So...why NOW, do you feel you are at the end of your rope and not before NOW?

1. Have you tasted of passionate sex and you want to feel that in your marriage now?

2. Do you NOW care about your husband's feelings regarding his lack of sex?

3. Are you so disgusted with your husband sexually that you are thinking of ending the marriage?

4. Do you feel guilt at the affair and are you dismayed over it to the point of ending your marriage?

5. ARE YOU miserable in this marriage??? If so, why?


WHAT IS THE MAIN REASON YOUR MARRIAGE SEEMS TO BE CRUMBLING NOW AND WHY DO YOU FEEL YOU ARE AT THE END OF YOUR ROPE??? It seems your marriage always did have sexual problems but WHY NOW is all this coming out and pushing you to the end of your rope???? (there is a reason.....you must tell us, please)

We have been beating around the bush for a while now trying to help, I would like to know exactly why now you feel your marriage is suffering. NOW. And why things...what things, are coming to a head in the marriage NOW? Why are you thinking of trying LAST DITCH efforts?

(Your husband seems to have settled down and accepted the affair and has not gone for divorce yet so are YOU the unhappy one in your marriage? )

Only then can we try and help....

YES, I am saying start doing the actions (including the verbal affirmations) and the feelings will (often eventually) follow.

Here's an article here on the MB site, have you seen it yet?

http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi5047_qa.html

Dear All

Thanks for taking the time to listen and share your thoughts and advice with me. It's a roller coaster of feelings of hope then a lot of pain, guilt and despair.

I've never had this kind of input before and it makes me feel so raw. How the heck does someone process all this stuff.

When I mentioned 'FAKE IT TILL YOU MAKE IT" I was not kidding. If you don't think he is picking up on your feelings toward him thnk again. Just like the others have said - YOU! need to instill confidence in him. Do not think this will happen quickly. This will be a slow process - remember YOU trained him. Give him permission to look after his needs in any way he sees fit. Give him permission perhaps even demand of him to use you in any way he sees fit.

You are working from a deficit. You tried to fill that void you feel with an A. You found it was not what you thought it would be. Lesson learned. Oh by the way you ran over your H in the process. Ooops sorry. Now YOU need to win him back. Show him what a great woman you are and you are available to him. You already know he desires you but you are putting up a force field that is keeping him away.

You have got some ideas that just "gotta go" Yes there is a lot of hope for your M. YOU have to change your expectations. Somehow you have the idea that you should experience fireworks every time. Where does that idea come from.

Like the other posters have been telling you loud and clear is you can make this better by trying some new things. The biggest new thing you need to try is your attitude. Behave like the situation is the way you want it and the feelings can then follow. It may be fireworks right away, but for crying out loud you have scared your husband off, so YOU need to welcome him, ENCOURAGE him and as I said in my previous post NEVER, NEVER!!! comment about his performance in a negative way. You tell him he is the most wonderful thing that has ever happened to you and that you really enjoy your time together in bed. And guide him and teach him to pleasure you in the ways you like.

Nuff said
Good luck. You have got a good thing going here. You can get this marriage back on the tracks if YOU work at it.

Stellakat

The type of person that I am is that I bury my feelings. I never really understood them or expressed them much of my whole life. When I did have feelings that felt selfish or ungrateful and I should be better than that, then I would repent and ask God to make me a better person. I don't know if you can understand that.

I always try to do better. Always, always always. In my early years of marriage when I felt those feelings of dissatisfaction and non sexual fulfillment I would blame myself and do better tomorrow. That's how I lived. It's honestly how I was. Then the person who loved me, how could I tell him that I wasn't happy inside when I didn't understand it myself. My H always seemed to just loved me no matter what so I just believed he had got it right. He was just waiting for me to sort myself out. Anti-depressants off and on for a couple of years and counseling. Having children, moving areas, moving jobs. There was always something to distract and blame it on.

23 years of being with someone tells you that giving up without seemingly, to me, no good reason was not even on my radar. I'm not sure you understand that. Call it emotional immaturity, call it what you want - it was who I was.

When I met this guy almost 3 years ago now. I had no clue that would EVER happen to me. I've been told by a therapist that subconsciously it was probably what I wanted (psycho babble?). For the first time in my life I felt 'sexual chemistry'. So then I thought, why didn't I even have that with my H.

The truth of the mess of our relationship - we are not truly intimate. It is a sad, sad mess. We don't MAKE LOVE. I haven't felt that I have ever made love to my H. This is because of me because apparently he has always felt it for me. What the heck was wrong with me? Where was I all those years? This is something I have only realized recently!

I feel the guilt of my affair but feel I have been given a final chance. However, I felt hopeless because I wasn't getting help or answers and still, after all the dross, nothing had changed only made worse.

I am sad, sad, sad. Tired and sad about my marriage after all these years. I look at my H and think he would be better off with someone else. There is a huge elephant in the room which we are not talking about and are unable to deal with. Maybe it is only now that I really care about my H's feelings regarding his lack of sex and you know what, maybe it is only now that I really care about my own feelings too regarding the lack of sex.

Can it get any worse? Why now? Why NOT? I could speculate about the timing till the cows came home. I WISH we had come to this point years ago but didn't. It's as simple as that.

That's what I've got - I have nothing to hide.

Okay bcboy5440

I hear what you and others have said. I am prepared to get on and try it. Perhaps it is time to stop regurgitating(?) my story and start doing?

I need to sleep.

Goodnight and thanks