Hi When,
One thought that I want to share is that I hope you chose each other when you decided to marry. If not, then an undercurrent of default has been running for many years in your marriage. It's like being the kid who is not really picked to be on a team, but he just kind of goes with one of the teams when all of the other kids have already been chosen. Many guys know that feeling. When my STBXW and I were going through the motions of MC, I remember asking her why she married me. For once in 15 years, she responded openly and honestly and I quote: "because no one else asked me to marry them." If your DH has not felt chosen by you, please understand how this has affected him and your thoughts and behavior for many years.

Here's what I don't get.

You mentioned that you communicated well. I figured that meant you had non-sexual intimacy.

There is no connection/making love because there probably isn't any non-sexual intimacy. And likely, there will be no love making until you get to a better level of non-sexual intimacy.

Do you share hopes/dreams/failures/the dark parts about yourself with your husband? Or do you talk about the budget, etc?

While not exactly your situation, my husband and I have been trying to recover our marriage. We've been intimate for over a decade, and it wasn't until the past 6 months that we made love for the first time, and now we're connecting/making love regularly. And you know what, it's enough. We don't have to role play, fantasize, keep it fresh by doing a different position a day.

It can be fixed. Not by role playing, giving hand jobs and what not. If you follow the other MB stuff, you will build non-sexual intimacy in your marriage. If you can figure out how to share yourself and ask him to do the same in a safe environment, it will get better.

Have you read "The 7 levels of Intimacy." That book really spoke to me and inspired me.

I still don't understand, though, how you could kiss someone you weren't attracted to.

Jayne241

Thanks for the link to the Marriage Builders article. There are a lot of layers to it and clearly a lot of work to be done on my part.

should I just start working on this stuff myself now or should I involve my H? In some ways I want to start working on it quietly so I don't drag him through my process. On the other hand, it is about our marriage. For start offs, just working on The Policy of Joint Agreement - takes two.

I have a reaction though too which I wonder if anyone can HELP me on. I am apprehensive about working on things and giving him hope which in turns makes him 'home in on me more' which makes me want to step away.

Thanks mumoftwo for the book suggestion.

Yes, I see what you are saying Jungian.

I remember my wedding morning. I was calm about my decision to marry my H. I was a little nervous about all those people but not a giggly bride to be in love. I was okay and at peace. It felt no different to the way our relationship had always been.

I don't think you have to POJA things that are about your own self-improvement, or ways you want to be a better wife. These are all things that he would like, if you succeed, right? Then I like the idea of you just trying quietly, and not getting his hopes up. Sort of a nice surprise that you are trying to do for him.

Something like this may take some false starts. And you may feel the need to move slow. If he isn't expecting anything, then you can move as slow as you need to. Once you are secure in your efforts, if he hasn't noticed yet then you may want to share with him what you're trying to do.

I'm glad you're willing to work on this!

My head is a mess of thoughts and I'm not sure if I have it right.

I have been wading through the questionnaires, articles etc on MB. I realized that I don't know what my H's emotional needs are. I know he needs affection and sexual fulfillment but I am unable to jump into those right away. I have started to mention the things that I really like about him - not ridiculously so. For example whilst out at a playground with my youngest and his friend yesterday, I sent H a text message letting him know what we were doing (this is very usual). Then I sent another saying "I love that you have a big heart". He sent one back saying thanks he really appreciated it and sometimes it made him vulnerable. I ended it there.

Apart from that, I don't know what else he needs. He needs SEX but I can't go there.

I'm not really sure what I am doing or where this is going. Bear with me while I think aloud.

I know that I can encourage him, build his confidence in many areas. Keep a good home for him and the children. I appreciate and am grateful for his taking care of us. Being respectful with finances etc. However, what about that huge area of sex. I know that is what he is looking for and wants.

Why did I have an affair again? For a different kind of personality and looking for sexual fulfillment.

So, my H provides everything for me apart from not being the exciting person that turns me on and then not having any sexual fulfillment.

So, I think this is the question, do I have to change my thinking of what exciting is? Or, as has been suggested - perhaps H needs to work on being more of a personality than just being happy to be with me? Also, I should help encourage this by praising the things I would like to see more often; confidence, charm, go getter attitude etc. In turn, I will change and he will too? He will become more attractive to me and it has nothing to do with him being a home provider? Then we may find love again and, in turn, sexual fulfillment?

Or am I deluding myself and my problem goes much deeper than this? Should I just go back to therapy now?

Ok, I have several ideas, take what you can and if they don't fit, that's ok.

First, you sending that text was great! IMHO starting small is good. If it is too over-the-top, it is unnatural, seems forced, and isn't honest or believable. Trust your instincts according to what will seem honest and truthful. Say things that are true. The act of saying these things may seem unnatural at first, do it anyway - but the things you say need to be things you can say with honesty and sincerity.

One exercise I've read about is, each morning, to write down three things you like about your spouse. Try to mix it up and not say the same things every day. This exercise trains your brain to think of the positive. You can also use the things you write to help you come up with ideas of affirmations you can give him.

Start doing these things, even if you aren't yet ready to meet the SF need. Start where you can; start training your brain to look for the positive things you like about him.


Let me answer the last question first, and get it out of the way: you are the one who is here, you are the one I'm talking to, and you only have power over yourself. So no, I do not think the answer to your question is that he needs to work on changing his personality to something you will like better. From your point of view, you can't make him change; and from his point of view, who's to say that he doesn't think *you* should change?

I haven't been reading all the posts, if there's some reason that he needs to change (like abuse) then I missed it. But as far as I know, what you need to concentrate on is ways that you would like to improve your own thoughts and actions, the only things you have power over.

So back to the first question: do you have to change your thinking of what exciting is? No, you don't *have* to do *anything* - but I suggest that you may *want* to change some patterns of how you think about your H, your marriage, your goals in life, etc. Since you are here, I assume you *do* want to improve your situation, and I assume you want to do so by trying to improve your marriage; therefore, I propose that the way to achieve what you desire, is by changing some thought patterns.

Something a friend told me, when I was questioning whether or not to marry H: she said, that before she married her H, she dated someone who was really exciting and for whom she felt a wild and passionate love for. But that sort of love does not last, and actually can't be sustained on an everyday basis and you really wouldn't want to, anyway. Like someplace that's nice to visit, but you wouldn't want to live there. The love she felt for her H was more calm, fewer highs and lows - but it was better for real life, long term, growing-old-together type of love that you really want to build a life and home and family with.

Those nice, stable, dependable, "boring" (but not really!) guys, let me tell you from personal experience - if you ever have a life-threatening illness and need someone caring, honest, dependable, calm, you'll be glad you chose wisely a partner for the long-haul and not an exciting roller-coaster flash-in-the-pan type.

Read the articles on lildoggie's thread that some of us posted about the chemicals involved in falling in love. That hormonal, chemical, high canNOT be sustained. If you are going for the exciting relationship, you'll have to trade in every few years for a new model. Even if you don't, then he will - cus after all, you chose someone who is attracted to the thrill and excitement.

To sum up: yes IMHO what you WANT to do is to change your thought patterns, to train your brain to look for and to appreciate the things about your H that are valuable to long-term happiness.

Jayne241

Thank you.

This morning I wrote down 3 things that I liked about my H. It is a positive start for me. I need to do this to begin to break down the negative cycle of thoughts that go through my head and the hopelessness I feel each morning.

Yes, I will just focus on working on myself. I have to think small steps that are real. Just real, everyday.

I am reminded again, by what you said about "those nice, dependable, boring (but not really!) guys", that I have one of those guys. Yes, I do. Always there ready to look after us. I had hip surgery and he was a rock. Very much wanted me to lean on him (I'm pretty independent and stiff upper lip) and be dependent. So, if I could just get the rest of it together........ for both of us to have SF would make it an amazing relationship.

I'm going to look for lildoggie's posts. I assume they are here somewhere on Emotional Needs.

Thanks again.

lildoggie's posts are on the GQII (General Questions II) board. I think it's called "A Dark Lildoggie" or something.

Also, a really really great program for improving your outlook and life, and gaining a more positive outlook and re-training your brain to have more productive thought patters, is Tools To Life. I don't know if it's against the TOS to post another website - try googling Tools To Life Devlin Steele and you should find it. Let me know if you need help. It's free, doesn't cost a cent and they aren't selling anything. If you go there, drop me a line, I have the same username there.

Glad to see you are still working on your marriage. Just from a guys point of view here. You are not sure what your husbands needs are. Well I can almost guarantee you that sex is high on the list.

You had an affair because you did not get the "fireworks" with your H. Well you will never get fireworks if you keep witholding.

Did you get anything from the suggestion "Fake it till you make it?" That was the by line from a course I took on trying to alter thought processes.

Sounds like you are looking for permission to place the responsibilty on your husband. Unfortunately we cannot control our spouses. It would be much more convenient if we could but that is not gonna fly. As one of my friends describes relationships "it is more like fishing" you have to use the right bait, and be patient. You cannot control the fish, or your husband. You can only control YOU and YOUR behaviour.

As some of the posters have suggested. Are you in counselling for your family of origin issues regarding sex? This is a pretty important issue for you to address. When did you make the appointment?

You are lucky and you may not even realize it. Your husband still desires you. That is a good thing. You would have much bigger problems if that were not the case.

Can you let us know what your action list is in order of priority to help restore your marriage?

Hi bcboy

Yes, I hear your suggestion about faking it until you make it. I'm a bit stuck on faking wanting and having sex with my H. He would see right through me. I guess he's either going to appreciate it or think I don't want her unreal, sad attempts. However, I have started to change my thinking about my H. I have shown affection, hugs and touches out of the usual back home from a hard day's work routine etc. I have sent him a few messages saying positive loving things at random moments. It has already resulted in me feeling as though this whole marriage could have a chance. I know I have to do the work. He is already happier and wanting to hug, hold, touch me more. I am managing to handle his responses as I feel good about causing them. Big for me as I usually want to keep him at a distance.

In the meantime, I have contacted my therapist to arrange sessions and have an appointment in 3 days. This I am not looking forward to. I tire of regurgitating my FOO issues. So, in truth, I feel fed up about that. Plus it costs $150 a pop!

My H has his work to do. I have never looked to him to do all the changing and not me. I have always thought all the issues were mine. It's only been in the last couple of years when seeing a marriage counselor has it been suggested that perhaps he needs to do some changing in order to fit my idea of the type of guy attracts me. I have always found this view difficult (if not right). I not sure you can just go around changing people's personalities. In response to that I'm told that if people want it badly enough, they can change. Guess that applies to me too!

So my priorities are:

* Changing my thought patterns and habits about my H each day.

* Give at least one unexpected hug, touch each day.

* See the therapist to work on FOO issues.

Are these okay? Am I missing something glaring? Am I on the right track?

I'm giving it what I've got but I do have those daily nagging thoughts of 'this is never going to change'. I'm not surprised but it's tricky to handle.

Wow, I am really impressed. You're doing the hard work. The only other thing I can think to do, and it really works, is affirmations. Every morning, wake up and think 3 good things about your H. He always gets the grass mowed. He's always nice to my mom. He's very patient. whatever, every day repeat out loud 3 things to yourself that you like about him. It really helps.

I'm going to give it my all. What else can I do. These suggestions sound so simplistic but I'll try anything. Yes, Jayne241 suggested writing down 3 positive things about my H each morning. I've got to admit, it feels better than it did a week ago or a year ago and, for that at least, I am thankful.

You guys, this does sound a bit easy....... it will work won't it?

Well, think about the athletes, who tell of training by envisioning their success. They literally win because they SEE themselves winning, crossing the finish line. The mind is half the battle.

Just one thing more... This:


This might either come as a relief or add to your frustration, but you can't/won't ever change him. He has to want to do it himself. The idea being he loves you enough to work to fill your needs.

This whole thing isn't just on your shoulders. All you have to do here is to help him understand. Communication is key and it's imperative that he truly gets it. It won't work if he just does things that appeal to you. Those things need to become part of his nature. He can make those changes.

It's okay for you to want things from him. It's okay for you to acknowledge your preferences and needs. They are valid and legitimate.

But he has to know them and you can't just expect him to figure it out on his own.

Catperson

Yes, for me there is a strong battle of the mind. I know I need to harness my thinking. Will stay with the training!!

Seabird

Thanks for helping me to see things from my H's point of view. I've been around him for so long it's different to view him differently. Also, I don't understand men that well either. I will try to stay honest and open. I know I am very fortunate to have someone who wants to stay married to me and do what he can to make it work. That's why I don't want to throw away what I feel is this last chance.

HOOORRRRAAAAYYYYY for you. Well done. Take a bow. Good work.

Change is not easy. Change will not see immediate rewards. Is this a magic wand that will make it all better, and will you have all the right feelings toward your husband by next week?
NO!

Will you provide a platform for you to communicate your needs to him by showing him you care and are trying?
Yes

From what I understand about relationships they build sloooowwwllly, and are torn apart quickly. That is what the Love Bank is all about. Building up deposits so when we screw up, and if you are human you will screw up. I know I do regularly.

You already say he is responding. So you can gain some encouragement from that. The opposite of love is not hate it is indifference. So with him responding you are starting to make deposits. And even if you don't feel 100% about the sex part that is OK. If you can give 25% then go for it I am sure he will appreciate it. Depending on the man, but many of the guys I talk to NEED it. Sometimes it is fireworks and sometimes it just takes the edge off things

So keep up the good work and keep on "FAKE IT TILL YOU MAKE IT". Your doing a good job and who knows one day it can start to pay dividends. Have you ever heard of the concept of PAY IT FORWARD? See the movie some time. Ask your H to watch with you. It is heart warming.

And you CAN harness your thinking, after all it is your mind. Practice thought stopping. When a negative thought starts to creep in tell you mind to stop thinking about it and replace it with something you are thankful for. The Bible give some pretty good advice and it works. In everything give thanks... HMMMM I wonder why we are instructed to do that? Could it be a loving God might just understand the struggle we have with our free will?

God Bless

Sounds like you have been this route before. Therapy is good, but they are limited to providing you with change options. If you have been in therapy before have you implemented the suggestions or plan they worked on with you.

I agree there is no point going for more if you have not implemented what you already know. So make sure before you go that you know what you want out of the session so you can be strategic with your efforts.

You sound intelligent and I sense you can attain what you want to. The question is how badly do you WANT to?

Have you identified and made a plan to eliminate the Love Busters. Have you read up on the Basic Concepts? There's a questionnaire here for that if you don't know.

Have you identified you two's top ENs, and plan 15 hours UA time a week to meet the top 4 - Affection, SF, RC, and conversation. I don't think it's about "faking it." How would you feel about finding the honest stuff to focus on and take the time to experience and enjoy. Do you like the way your H smells and his skin feels under your fingers when he gets out of the shower? Do you enjoy sharing kisses with him after he's brushedhis teeth?

Have you read the Willingness to Desire articles yet? I think it's an attitude thing, too, feeling secure that your efforts are taken in love, not judgement. No one wants to feel like they're putting on a show that they are going to be judged for. Are you willing to discuss this with him, about how you are nervous about his reaction and want reassurance?