Happy, happy birthday Mrs W.

I got up in the middle of the night and read your and Mr G's posts to me (on my phone so I couldn't reply). Yes, you both have it summed up completely. Mrs W, after reading your post, I went back to bed a much, much happier person. The lady in the mirror. It was like being given a wonderful gift. Thank you and thank you Mr G.

Aphelion, you are not my H. As if I'm so stupid that I don't know my adultery affected our marriage forever. I also know that we have moved passed it and are looking forward to a wonderful old age together. My H is a very special man, you don't meet many like him in life. It is a family joke, long before my A, that only my H would put up with me. My DD even said to me the other day that she can't tell what is loopy menopause and what is just me being my loopy self. As to my adultery being benefical in any way to anybody. I wish it had never, never happened.

And, from what I learned from Mrs W in the middle of the night last night, whether you have me on ignore or whatever you think of me, just doesn't matter.

Not everyone can like me - the people who matter (my husband and family) do. And I like me.

I'll let Jen speak for herself here, but since you and I have the dubious distinction of both having been dealt VLTAs, I'd like 2 offer my own view of this point of yours. Maybe it'll be of some use 2 others who come along here after we're gone.

I still think about my W's affair, nearly every day. I realized this a 2ple of months ago after I quit drinking and found myself able 2 ponder my own detachment process over the past few years with an accordingly-clearer head (I didn't drink THAT much, but my general feeling of well-being has definitely increased since stopped).

I realized that I've been thinking about the affair more lately, not because contact continues (some attempts at professional contact has continued on my W's part - no details, sorry, but he had control of something of hers that she needed back - such that my W is realizing what a pathetic pusillanimous dweezlenut Rat Meat truly is, all without my "help!") but rather because our recovery really kicked off after our arguments in March. I don't even know why that was special. Maybe it wasn't. Maybe what was was my quitting drinking when I did, the way I did, and how I've been after I did (she seems to enjoy me more, and is less afraid of talking about M with me than ever before).

And my W is truly more fun 2 be around now. I even find myself regretting that I'm going out of town on business next week, whereas just a month ago I was still enjoying myself immensely when she was out of town teaching for 2.5 weeks.

I don't think the memory of the VLTA should ever go away, but the pain and retaliatory remarks/actions should, and likely will in most cases, even in VLTA aftermaths.

Adultery isn't beneficial 2 anybody, BS or WS. But it sure is character-building. And having characters such as myself built is a good thing - in my view.

Grateful for the education brought on by the affair does not mean I'm grateful for the affair.

-ol' 2long

Hear, hear.
I will NEVER be grateful, happy or positive about the A, but I am amazed at how much better a person I am than I thought I was before. I am alot stronger and capable. I have rights. I am worthy. I am loved.
My H is not a demigod of perfection, he has all the same flaws as everyone else.

We will both be much better people when we get thru this.

PS Jen, I hope Im one of those who matter, cos I like you

Every other day or so for me.

Same here again. But I never did like business travel.

Yet again. There are no A discussions. It is never brought up. I learned not to the hard way a couple of years ago. As to the pain, well, it still hurts. Don’t know why for sure, but probably somewhat because of the former. Loving Detachment cures a multitude of pains though.

You were a character long before the VLTA! Now you have a nice verdigris patina.

I knew all about the misery and stupidity of adultery from the beginning. I went through similar with old college gf. Went through it with W after D-Day 1 of the VLTA. And after the first EA. W knew. W claimed to know and heartily agree. We had hours of discussions about it before we married and after the other D-Days. She lied. I didn’t. So no, I am not grateful for a forced labor / reeducation camp on what I already knew.

With prayers,

I don't usually, either. But this one is a field trip 2 the Big Island!

-ol' 2long

Mars!!!!!!!!!

Look at me, look at me, look at me!!!

Duh, ya think you have a problem?!?!?!


No it's YOUR problem. Did you ever think maybe everyone else is right?

Your arrogance about 'your' thread is telling.


Wrong about the FWW, right about the over-indulged princess. Why don't you try to rectify that?

Feel better iam? Now you've got that off your chest.

Y'know I'd laugh because, seriously, the stuff you're spouting is laughable but, you know something, I actually understand that you are in pain. See, I do have an empathy gene even though I'm an over indulged princess.

I'm not sure about your sitch - I'll look it up. BTW do I know you under another name?

Edited to add: I've looked up your sitch and you've had a very bad time. I still can't quite work out why you feel the need to attack me though but there must be some payoff. Do you feel relieved when you've let it all out, do you feel justified? Is it because I made an insensitive remark to you?

Perhaps if you were not so quick to dismiss the views of others that you see (even if it isn't true) as attacking you....either they are in pain, picking on you, or just plain rude...you might realize that some of the posters are actually telling you what they see in you...not using their pain to attack you. I think Iam is just giving you his/her honest assessment. Your need to continually throw out the words "attack" and "abuse" is really a reflection of how you feel about you...not how someone else views you.

Wow, what a great thread this is turning out to be. Everyone sharing freely. Hardly any edits. Well, except for 2long. LOL, 2long. Still at it, I see.

Big K, apparently we attended different churches growing up. I don't know scripture like you do, but I do remember what I learned in church. At least what my interpretation of what I heard and read was.


'bout dang time, 2long. The best to you both. The next phase of the journey is what it's all about, eh?


Jen!!!!! Everything is always all about me. So how can it be all about you?

Read any good books lately?

I'm currently reading "The Money Game". It's a hard, must be focused read... but I like it.

LOL I give up. I surrender. Maybe it's a cultural thing but in my country that would be called a personal attack.

Hey, Josie, yes, lots of good books.

I think I'll just go and finish making soup for my sick DS. Much safer lol.

Oh crap, I just can't let this go.

Okay, if you are going to build a ship you would need to study what floats, not what sinks.

For instance, if I wanted to build a boat, I would probably go down to the lake to see what floats. I might see the rock laying on the lake bottom, but it wouldn't interest me because it was at the bottom of the lake, hardly a good boat building example, and then I would look at the duck floating at the top of the water. I wouldn't grab the rock and waste my time to see why it sank, I would grab the duck and see why it was floating.

I am not trying to determine why the rock sinks, I am trying to determine why the duck floats.

In other words, if I was trying to determine why some people have a good marriage, why some people are faithful, why some people are successful at life, I would look to the good marriages and the faithful people to see what they are doing to get that way.

That is my whole point about waywards. If they truly want to change their lives, to have good marriages, they will look to those that have accomplished that. They won't be wasting their time with a bunch of other waywards.

It is not so difficult to do. I did it, and I did it by studying those who were successful, not by studying those who weren't.

I'm not an aeronautic engineer. I couldn't care less why things sink or crash to the ground. I want to know what works.

But in a plan to change things, one must keep track of what doesn't work, in order to apply a different course of action. But that's not what I'm talking about.

Whew...

Agree 200%. They know how to screw up a marriage, not recover one. The only reason I think its important to understand a WS is so one can see through their bullcrap. Only for purposes of SELF PRESERVATION, [and amusement ] NOT to figure out how to recover. I didn't look to a falling down drunk to get recovery tips; I looked to successful recovering alcoholics who practiced the program.

A serious question. Do you think FWS's have something to offer. It's why I've always stuck around. I've been thinking (while making my soup) that I sense some resentment that I'm happy and my H is happy. I get the feeling that people are upset that the karma bus didn't hit me.

I thought recovered marriages were what MB was all about. I can honestly say I'm happy. I'm content and I'm happy.

In the early days I was part of a thread of (F)WS's. You know something, none of them went on to recover.

Edited to add I also thought of some great responses to Medc and Iam while I was making my soup but, honestly, I really don't care what they think. Mrs W and Mr G touched me deeply in the middle of the night and that's what matters.

Alrighty Jen, I'm gonna hafta smack ya... Here's why...Would it matter if someone else thought you had something to offer? It matters that YOU think that you have something to offer, and that you offer it with a free heart - and let's not forget that YOU may be helped by your posting - you matter too...See, there will be some people that think that you have nothing to offer, and some that think you do - Both are okay...Both are cool...Neither one of those opinions changes YOU...

Not sure if you missed it or not, but I recently said on some thread here that we were helped by YOU...Now, mind you, it's not something that you will be thrilled about offering, but it was CRUCIAL help to our recovery, and we thank you...When you had your fall from grace Jen, THAT is what convinced me completely of the importance of NC for LIFE...Up until that point Mr. W and I were planning to attend my 20th high school reunion where OM was likely to be...That changed when I watched in horror at what contact wrought in your life...We did not go...Please believe me, I thank you for that lesson...Mr. W thanks you and though she doesn't know it, our dd8 thanks you as well...

Remember, the opinions of others do NOT define you...You and Rob are married and enjoying each other Jen - that matters most...Take what you need here, and leave the rest...

Mrs. W

P.S. I really don't think that people resent you for being in a recovered marriage Jen - I sure don't think they resent Mr. W and I, but what if they did? Would it change your circumstances or mine? Think about it...

RECOVERED FWS's do. They are awesome.


You would have to address to the person in question. Personally, I am always happy to see a good solid recovery and have no resentments.


Not me.

Smack accepted Mrs W. OMG, I said some terrible things to you when I fell from grace. Please accept my apologies.

I really don't know if you really can appreciate what your words meant to me at 2.00am this morning.

Don't give it a second thought...Honestly, I don't remember...

I'm very glad to know that my words touched you in some way...Thank you for telling me...

You know, I have found that helping others...whether that be here or elsewhere really helps me to combat my own tendency towards self-centeredness...(you know, the "all about me" dealio )

My closest friend is a member of AA, coincidentally so is Mel...That is a terrific program, imo...They teach that "in order to keep it, I must give it away"...Being "of service" to others keeps the focus off of self and moves us towards having a "servant's heart" as God wants us to...It helps us to follow the command of "love one another"...I also believe that doing for others helps us with our struggle against the unhealthy desires of the "flesh"...

The flesh craves things that weaken and destroy our spirits...Succumbing to the desires of the flesh are what lead to depression, pain and despair...Very bad things are born of the flesh...

Anyway, to steal a line from JL, "just some thoughts"...

Nite Jen...Big hugs...

Mrs. W

Hmm.

Jen - you and I have done the rounds a few times and been friends even.

I have nothing but respect for WS's who have earned their "F" and I have even been retty protective of some wonderful "FWW's" here.

I think FWS's are awesome. I really do. That is what puzzles me about Aphelions posts on this thread. No wonder his marriage is still unsatisfying. His wife can smell his attitude a mile away.

That's when you start thinking the "birds of a feather" thingie.


To me, recovering a marriage is like climbing Mt. Everest.

Who do you want leading you? Someone who has done it and succeeded?

Or someone who read the book and is gonna wing it?

committed