Exactly, SB. I can wring my hands til the cows come home about the posting styles of others, but it will avail NOTHING because I have NO POWER over other posters. Who CARES if I think someone's posting style sucks? NO ONE.

People post in the manner that suits THEM, not other posters. So griping about is does nothing but take up bandwidth, annoy others and distract attention away from productive activities, like helping newcomers.

Thanks Schoolbus!!

OT/TJ: I got THE GATHERING OF OLD MEN..savoring the chance to begin reading!

Oh, I know WHY. There are some posters here that think they are the "post" police. Some of them actaully think that they will get us all to post as they see fit. Uh, nope...not gonna happen.

There you go again Mel....not feeling like you can express your true feelings!

LOL.

For me, the point to this thread is to come to a better understanding of others on the board as well as myself with regard to posting. Among other things, it helps me to evaluate what and how I will or will not post.

Another point for me was to find out if we are all required to follow the TOS or just some of us....or if the TOS is merely a suggestion instead of a rule.


I agree. As board members, we can express our differing opinions about certain behaviors. Regardless of what each of us thinks is disrespectful behavior, the Moderators determine what is allowed and what isn't....not us. The Moderators also determine who can stay and who must leave....not us.

I don't know if each Moderator acts according to their own views and opinions of what they consider to be disrespectful behavior (or not), or if they are required to enforce an MB-approved definition and list of behaviors. If anyone knows, I would be interested in finding out how that works and what the requirements are to become a Moderator.


These types of threads do help me learn about Marriage Builders and applying the MB concepts in my life. That's why I read them and sometimes post to them. In fact, these types of threads are useful to me in exposing the areas I need to work on. Maybe I'm the only person to ever have had these types of threads be useful in that way.... but different methods reach different people, right?

Kinda like some people think that they are the "thread" police and if a thread has no value to them...they want her shut down.

There is value to these types of threads...to someone...somewhere.

committed

LB, I am glad SOMEONE HERE benefits from these handwringing sessions about disrespectful OTHER posters, because I sure don't. And I have NEVER seen anyone change because of it and never seen it accomplish anything other than annoyance and resentment. I think most posters post in the manner and style that SUITS THEM, not others. Unless they are the kind of person who looks to others for their identity.

I appreciate and greatly VALUE the diversity of styles on this forum and wouldn't dream of suggesting anyone change their style to suit me. That is profoundly disrespectful, if you ask me. If we all posted like little politically correct robotons who danced to the tune of some puppet master, this would be a horrible place that would benefit very few.

I much prefer to RESPECT AND VALUE our differences instead of trying to make others dance to my tune. [a fruitless endeavor]

Lovingboundaries, I accept you how you ARE TODAY and see VALUE in your contributions.

Thank you, that was nice of you to say. Of course, accepting how I am today doesn't mean that you approve of me and the value you see in my contributions might be the kind that spotlights what not to do!

I thought you would appreciate the humor and appreciate the fact that it wouldn't matter to me if that is exactly what you meant...it was still nice of you to say.

That is exactly right! And the answer is that you don't need my approval! Not today and not tomorrow. I don't need your approval and you don't need mine.

mimi,

Glad you got the book! Savory read, that one!
sorry for the slight t/j, all.

To the rest of the thread.....

I just finished a book that is appropriate to MB, and to this thread in particular. It is called Leadership and Self-Deception: Getting out of the Box, by The Arbinger Institute.

Now, this is a very interesting read. When I picked it up I thought I wanted it because "my boss needed it" and I wanted a way to help change my boss's behavior.

Was I wrong.

Way off the mark.

It is a book that really hits home and forces a person in an extremely simplistic way to look inside and from a completely different perspective. While written for the job and work world, it is completely transferrable to homelife, marriage, kids, and friendship.

It takes its concepts from the philosophy framework, but it is completely a VERY easy read. Reminded me in a way of "Who Moved My Cheese?", but the material is directed at PERSONAL CHANGE. Really, at human change in general.

I can, and did, put it to use immediately, and the tone in my home is different - from the moment I finished the book.

Different. Relaxed. Happy - and yes, I can say, I AM HAPPIER.

Coming from a BS? Wow.


Just wow.

I can only imagine what this will do for a WS, too. There are apparently further studies available, as this book is only "Phase 1". I am looking for more.


SB

2long, I don't understand. Are you talking about the Olympic?

On the other point I was trying to make, I think I understand why you needed to understand the thoughts of the wayward, it's because you have always been successful, so you needed to understand the processes of someone who wasn't.

I was of the opposite position. So that may be it.



But on on the other side of the fence, the one where recovery is the topic. When does a FWW stop being a FWW?

Why are they kept in that role? When do people get to become what they really are, sans the past waywardness.

I was disheartened/baffled/pissed off that BS's don't get the F in front of their lables, but now I'm getting frustrated that FWS's are forever and ever on these boards known as FWW's.

This bothers me. If in fact that have returned to their true nature of non waywardness, why are they called upon to act as teachers/advisors to the wayward's? It seems to me that that would keep them in a kind of stuck position. Same with the formerly betrayed.

When do we all become just human beings again? former waywards and former betrayed alike?

It seems creepy to keep everyone in their past, ilking out advise to others who are traveling that same road.

I don't know. There could be a good reason, but I just don't see it right now.

Maybe 2long answered it already in his last post, but I still don't really care for the system.

I'll keep thinking on it. Perhaps others can share their thoughts or same frustrations.

IMHO, the label never leaves them. While they can rise above the behaviors that brought it to them in the first place...and be afforded the same level of respect as others...they DID commit the act...and therefore that is part of their former life....a resume of sorts. A criminal (and I liken waywards to criminals) always has as part of their record an accounting of their past misdeeds... a record. That doesn't mean that they cannot be good members of society and contribute as much if mot more than another...it just is about the accurate accounting of who they are and were.

Kiwi, in response to this -
I'll play. In fact it would be a very good idea for me to play, as my husband and I are having an incredible amount of trouble "synergizing" right now, and I need to really look at my flaws. Done looking at his, need to look at mine.

My pluses:

I love people.

My minuses:

I don't really need people.

Now where do you go with that? This board is so easy for me, because it doesn't require anything from me, really. As far as needing anyone, but my husband does.

My independence is becomming a problem. And it's not that I am so independent that I can't get along, it's that I don't really need anyone. And a husband wants to be needed.

How do you fix that?

But it's part of their former life.

Now Medc, I know you are somewhat of a spiritual person, so you know that it is wrong to live in the past. You know that our responisibility on this earth is to grow.

How can you grow when you are stitched to your past like a string to a kite.

How far can you possibly go with a past mistake hanging on you like a weight.

I think it is wrong.

I think it is also wrong for a criminal who has done his time and repented, to forever be tied to his wrong deed.

We only live once. We only have this one shot, and what is the point of becomming better people if we can't get away from the past?

Do you remember that passage from the Bible that ends with "rejoice in this day, for this day is a gift that God has giveth thee"...

It talks about how it is wrong to dwell in the past or to worry about the future.

Dang, I wish I could remember that passage.

I don't think it has to be a weight. I am forever linked to some things in my past and they've become my sails. A former drug dealer that now uses his past sins to help prevent others from making the same mistakes uses it as a sail and rudder.

How we use who we were in our new lives is entirely up to us. BUT, like the criminal whose record does and should follow him around...the past needs to be a constant reminder of what we can be if we lose our way.

excellent post MEDC.....you summed this up beautifully.....hmmmmm, have you been getting lessons from Mark??????....


not2fun

I've forgiven you about the insensitive remark.

I guess I can stop seeing my IC since I now have you to psychoanalyze me via the Internet?

*edit*

You know, after reading this again I feel the need to add something.

You say you have empathy? You say you read my situation? Then you go and make comments about my feeling 'relieved when I let it out' and 'feeling justified'.

So you know, those are not things that someone who has empathy would say after reading my 'sitch'.

Those are things that a selfish person seeking to get in a poke at a wound would say.

But I guess it made you feel good about you so it's all good.

Thanks N2F.

This said regarding title, “Formally Wayward Spouse”:

What a diverse group we have here.

The ideals overtly summarized in the quoted paragraph above amount to a lifelong sentence from which a formally wayward spouse can never fully emerge. Forever branded with the scarlet mark? As noted, they can however, “be afforded the same level of respect as others,” such a gracious gesture. How they can retain the title of “formally wayward spouse” and be afforded the same level of respect as others is a mystery to us all. Realize of course, they will never really be fully equal, and certainly no hope of ever becoming equal with their betrayed spouse. In the philosophy outlined above the betrayed spouse will ALWAYS be “more” equal. That’s not love.

Such a disheartening and forlorn life to live.

As the poster notes, the past should serve as a constant reminder of what we become if we lose our way, never truer words spoken. The past is indeed our greatest teacher. As the saying goes, “those who forget the past are destined to repeat it.” But the past encompasses a fairly large bucket of experiences. A great many of those past experiences reflect the dangers and consequences of applying labels to our fellow citizens, especially labels that help promote hateful bias. To FOREVER brand a person with the mark of adultery helps to perpetuate a hateful and bitter bias against someone who may deserve nothing of the kind.

I have no doubt that there are a great many folks that will jump on the “once a formally wayward spouse, always a formally wayward spouse” bandwagon. I would ask those folks to consider the possibility that in the best recoveries such labels were lost a long time ago.

Straight talking,

Mr. G