Its me again. I think JL is giving you some very good council. I hope you can find the strength and desire to put these words into action. I pray you find a way.

Good luck I'm rooting for you. From what you have posted I think you are better off than you realize.

JL

A few questions. Help me to understand.

1. My H and I don't really know what LOVE is..... why?

2. I want a taker like my father....... why?

3. Why do you think I equate good sex with being taken? I was a virgin when I married. Then I had sex with someone else 2 years ago who just took and took. No, I wouldn't say it was good sex but I found out what a taker and a user was.

4. I am the taker because I have witheld having sex since xmas? What is it exactly within sex that I have taken?

5. What coping mechanisms are you referring to?

I am grateful that other things our relationship are great as I have described before. Parenting, finances etc. Am I supposed to say they are crap too because our intimacy is crap.

I'm not looking for a good guy or bad guy in the bedroom. I'm not focused on that. I am questioning myself as to why I do not show love to my H in the way that I should. In the way that I have so clearly got wrong since he has done me no harm. What is wrong with my thinking and my feelings about my H that making love TO HIM is such a problem. Maybe I truly don't admire him fully yet. Maybe I didn't want someone who was that passive in life and, at times, seemingly weak. My heart doesn't sing. It's safe but it doesn't sing. So, I'm beginning from the beginning again. Trying to cultivate new thinking about my H. Trying to deposit in the LB so I can begin to change my feelings and in turn give to him. That's the right thing to do isn't it? Or am I going to fall flat on my face because I'm too screwed up and I can't see it?

Also, if I am such a taker and so selfish - will I, by showing my H love by building him up and having sex, eliminate being a taker and being selfish about sex?

Okay, I wrote that and I'm confused....

Maybe I need to stand back from this and take a breath. I'm having difficulty hearing and staying positive. I

Think of how thrilling it was to date, talk with, kiss and bang the other lover. For an entire year long affair! (as you stated in your first post) In that year you MUST have done lots of new stuff in bed. You simply MUST have!

Just once, use the same thrilling passion and relate with, kiss, talk with and jump in bed with and wildly bang your husband that same way. Just for an experiment. Even just one time.

Bring the wild loving passion which you felt for the other man, back to your own marriage, and your own husband. Bang him, your own husband, like there is no tomorrow, see what it feels like to do this. You may learn some things.

And if you want to see an explosion of excitement tell your husband you would like to experiment in bed and learn to give him a BJ and to help you and guide you. He would probably go nutz. With happiness...

I have a hard time you did not ever give your illicit lover a BJ if you were having sex with him for an entire year.

JL makes really good points (so does Stella). What JL is telling you is that there is a psychology, a human nature, to your problem. For instance, choosing a man to replace your father. This is EXTREMELY common, more common than not, in fact. We create our expectations of men from our fathers. Then we go out and seek to get either a replica of him or someone completely different. If your dad was a Taker, that means you learned to let him take. You grew up believing you needed to marry a Taker because that's what men are. (it's what you learned from him)

Now because your H loves you so much, he has determined not to push you into having sex if you don't want it. He thinks he's being loving by doing that, but he needs to find his own balance and work to get what he needs from you. You think he's not being the Taker he's supposed to be (since you learned growing up that men are Takers), therefore he turns you off.

It also sounds like you may have gotten someone so much like your father that you can't differentiate your feelings for your dad from your feelings for your H. In other words, you love him the way a person would love a parent, and one would never consider having sex with a parent.

Those are things you can deal with in therapy. Probably a really good idea. I think you have the best chance of success if you go to therapy together, learn more about each other.

Now, you have become a Taker in this one situation by WITHHOLDING sex from your H. Any expert you read will tell you that enjoying sex together is one of the most important aspects of a marriage, and NOT having sex is a sure ruin to a marriage, not to mention abusive and extremely selfish. That's where you can work on it together.

whenifever,

What do you think I mean?

Look, your H is showing you love the only way he can. He has remained married to you despite your affair, and YET. You think he is weak, you think he is mild, you think he is passive. Do you have any idea how much strength and commitment it takes to forgive a spouse that cheats on you? He knows love is devotion, forgiveness, but he doesn't know that for you love is passion, taking, that is what passion really is...taking. He doesn't know that, thus he does not know about love. You want something from your H, you think you are a giver, but you want to take something that is why you need the passion.

I don't know why you do, but look at your statements about OM, about your H, and then you say your father had many affairs. Which man "rang you chimes"? Who is that man like? I don't know why you like a man that would mess with a married woman. That is for you to figure out.
Being a virgin has nothing to do with your expectations and what you need. You left the marriage and took what you wanted with the OM. You may think he used you, but you used him and you enjoyed it. You are in affect comparing your H to the OM. The OM had passion. Of course he did. He didn't give a "flip" what you thought or needed. He took what he wanted, and in giving it to him you took what you wanted.
You are a taker because of your affair. You withholding sex also means you know nothing about love and marriage. You have TAKEN your marbles and gone home, failing to give to your H.

Having an affair is a coping mechanism for addressing things wrong in your life. It is a lousy coping mechanism.
You are grateful!!! You have an affair, and the other things in your marriage are great. Yet you think your H is weak. Amazing! You are not supposed to say your other things are crap because your intimacy is crap. You are supposed to realize that something is very wrong, and start to consider whay you really need. You are in fact looking for something that your H is not, and he is a good guy. You tell me what you are looking for.

I don't know what romance novel you have been reading but in most marriages, even very successful marriages, ones "heart does not sing" very often. What is there is respect, love as in the verb, protection, care, and sharing. Deep sharing!

I have no idea if you are going to fall flat on your face. But, I would suggest you focus on empathy. I would suggest on focusing on the good things about your H. I would suggest you consider that your affair could have easily ended your marriage, and it really was not your call that it did not. You clearly have not done much to rebuild the marriage the way you describe your feelings for your H.

I Know I sound harsh, but you are missing some real key things here, about marriage, about relationships, about what it is to love. And to answer your question, apparently you are not making love to him because you don't love him enough to see what you are doing to him. I would strongly recommend that you read the articles on this site. I would also recommend that you read Surviving an Affair by Harley. Finally, really you two need some counseling.

I think your marriage has a great chance of surviving and prospering IF you change your perspective on life and your H.

Please think about these things.

God Bless,

JL

Stellakat

Yes, there were a few new things. There were things that I would not try. I could tell you the details of what we did but don't want to do that here. There was a bj 'incident' - is all I can call it. I think I was a novelty to him because I had not done much - I don't know. We didn't spend much time talking. When we saw each other we didn't spend that long together. There were texts most days. He is married and has been for the same amount of time as me. He told me he was only faithful in his marriage for the first two years. I haven't really talked about the details of it with anyone.

I would love to have passion in my own marriage.

My H has been away but back today. He travels a fair bit. I realize that I have lots of work to do.

JL

Some the things you say I understand and accept.

Some of them are just bashing and sarcastic. Not sure why you feel that is necessary.

Thanks for answering my questions. Guess I've got some work to do!

Catperson

Thanks

Clearly I have work to do.

I have not wanted to have sex with my H because I know and want it to be different. Particularly since the affair. I know for us it has to change. It has to be about making love for me. I think the making love to my husband has to come before we even reach the bed. I realize I have to start treating and seeing him differently. I know I have a 'diamond' of a relationship if I can get past myself and do the work.

So, this is my plan:

* Continue to work on loving my H by changing the way I see him and bringing that to life in the relationship by loving words and actions.

* Bring back the sex. Just do it!

* Stay with the therapy - it seems I am a crackpot!...lol

* Get some good marriage counseling.

Thanks for helping me see.

Hey, I'm in almost the exact same boat as your husband. I'm currently working with my wife and seeing some results. The best advice I can give you is to be completely honest with him. If there is something that he can do differently.....tell him. No matter how much it hurts, the barrier can't be overcome until confronted and then resolution measures are taken. And thank you....I believe this thread provided some insight for me also.

If you don't feel comfortable talking to him about it just yet, what about writing him a letter, discussing what we've said here, about how you want him to romance you, you want both of you to experiment more so that your SF time is more...just more. Give him the letter and let him think about it. Maybe even include a later meeting time, a la 'can we sit down Sunday night and talk about this?' The best thing you need in your M is honesty.

I wasn't try to bash you. I was answering your questions. It seems odd to me that you don't see you having an affair as being a taker.

Whatever you do, I strongly suggest you consider taking a new look at what you were thinking and saying to yourself to justify what you did. I would also suggest that you redefine what you mean by a strong man.

The OM was a weak willed, lying, cheater. In my book that is not admirable or strong, and some how HIS character flaws seemed like passion to you. Interesting!

Reread and rethink, there is something wrong with your perspective.

God Bless,

JL

Hi fenderbender

I'm really glad you have got something from this thread.

Thank you for what you said. You know, it is SO helpful to have a male perspective too and, particularly, someone who is in my H's position. Yes, I will be honest with him. I have been told this before and I WILL do it.

Well, Catperson, bcboy, Stellakat

I have already had an 'eventful' weekend so far!!

I'm taking your advice and running with it! My H and I finally had sex Saturday AND Sunday (today!). This sounds corny but it was somewhat different. I was different. I was conscious of wanting to give to him and give to him because I wanted to show him love. He was more than enthusiastic, overly keen and very happy. It made me see with whole new eyes how much it was that he just wanted to give to me... yep! Even after all this time, he was just ready to give. He was so happy.

I realized, like a bat had been swung to my head, that this is what you'd been saying. It is about giving to each other. I'm not saying all 'ills' are cured but I was understanding and being 'present' in the midst of it all but in a completely different way.

I was, however, bombarded with a few horrible thoughts of the past and realized I needed to talk about them in counseling and with my H. I want him to know where we are at at all times.

I just wanted to share steps with you. I know it is only the beginning but IT IS beginning. I'm not giving up.

Hi Whenifever,

This is the first time I've read over your post. I agree with fenderbender. Be honest with your hubby. If romance is something you are needing, then you have to let your hubby know. It may feel awkward at first, but if you give him a long list of things that come to mind when you think about enjoying sex--he'll have firepower to start your engine too. I agree with looking at it from a giving standpoint - I've had to use that in the past. But when things started being done for me that created romantic times, it didn't take nearly as much effort.

Even though my marriage didn't make it, it wasn't due to sex. It was due to my x's independent behavior. That was enough to kill anything positive that got built. But like I said, those romantic evenings out, time away from responsibilities, flowers, all the mushy stuff can just add icing to the cake.

Don't know if anyone posted on that before, i just started reading part way through. But maybe give it a shot??

Good Luck!!
RMW

Sounds like a good direction you are in here!

On The Lighter Side----


THE HUSBAND STORE

A store that sells new husbands has opened in London, where a woman may
go to choose a husband. Among the instructions at the entrance is a
description of how the store operates:

You may visit this store ONLY ONCE! There are six floors and the value
of the products increase as the shopper ascends the flights. The
shopper may choose any item from a particular floor, or may choose to
go up to the next floor, but you cannot go back down except to exit the
building!

So, a woman goes to the Husband Store to find a husband. On the first
floor the sign on the door reads:

Floor 1 - These men Have Jobs.

She is intrigued, but continues to the second floor, where the sign
reads:

Floor 2 - These men Have Jobs and Love Kids.

'That's nice,' she thinks, 'but I want more.'

So she continues upward. The third floor sign reads:

Floor 3 - These men Have Jobs, Love Kids, and are Extremely Good
Looking.

'Wow,' she thinks, but feels compelled to keep going.

She goes to the fourth floor and the sign reads:

Floor 4 - These men Have Jobs, Love Kids, are Drop-dead Good Looking
and Help With Housework.


'Oh, mercy me!' she exclaims, 'I can hardly stand it!'

Still, she goes to the fifth floor and the sign reads:

Floor
5 - These men Have Jobs, Love Kids, are Drop-dead Gorgeous, Help
with Housework, and Have a Strong Romantic Streak.

She is so tempted to stay, but she goes to the sixth floor, where the
sign reads:

Floor 6 - You are visitor 31,456,012 to this floor. There are no men on
this floor. This floor exists solely as proof that women are impossible
to please. Thank you for shopping at the Husband Store.

More On The Lighter Side----


To avoid gender bias charges,

the store's owner opened a New Wives store just across the street.

The first floor has wives that love sex.

The second floor has wives that love sex and have money
and like beer and football.

The third, fourth, fifth and sixth floors have never been visited.

I'm so glad. It really is all about attitude.

Whenifever,

Congratulations, I think you have taken the first step toward making your marriage something you will fully enjoy.

God Bless,

JL