Any vets here to help me out? I'm really having a hard time right now, feel the need to contact WW and sit down with her.....

Turtlehead, you say this awhile back but now you say that I shouldn't read too much into them????

Did you ever expose to the OMW?

She is the only person that can force the OM to drop your WW if he is unwilling to D his W.

You keep from finding excuses for contacting her.

Road,
I'm pretty sure I've mentioned this before but anyways, the OM is divorced and has been for a year or so.... no exposure there.

Well your WW moved out and is plan B'ing except when needed to settle matters about leaving you.

At this point you can only do a 100% plan B your self. With no exceptions. All contact through a 3rd party.

Do you know if OM has kids with his XW?

yes, OM has 2 children about 3 and 4 yrs. old

I may be in the minority with this one, and I'm sure the vets will correct me if I'm wrong. I think that his XW would be very interested that her kids' father is having an affair with a married woman. Could be a good leverage point. Just a thought.

A bunch of my friends say that I should meet with her one last time, maybe over this weekend. Invite her out to the house, go for a long walk, 1.5hrs is the walks we started to take just before she left and talk...

-Discuss what happened, where did we go wrong, how she is feeling now, and where she wants to go with this.
- she says she's been questioning our relationship for yrs, what are the underlying issues, what could we work on?
- she says she's been trying for 2 yrs, how where you trying and why didn't I see it?
-I'm looking for the truth, there is no reason to hide anymore. There have been too many lies lately, Is it the truth that you still don't know how you will feel in 3-4 months but right now you feel it's over?
-why did you not come forward with your feelings long before all of this happened and give it a chance for counseling/long discussions/dates like you said you wanted/etc?
-Tell her that I can't take this pain any longer, it hurts too much knowing that she is with someone else, that I've been making changes and want to work on this marriage but you have given me nothing to work with.
-have you really decided in your heart that you no longer love me?

I know I probably will not get answers. But I was thinking this might give her one last chance to open up and see where it goes...I probably won't like the answers though.

Good idea or not?
I will be strong, hold my ground, when talking to her. No breaking down and pleading with her to come home. If she says it's done then I will have to believe her and tell her I will have the sep papers drawn up in the next couple weeks.

After this should Plan B be put into effect? Or just Plan B right away?

Still confused on this direction

Heavens, your M is far from over.
Do you have the D papers in your hand with the judge's signature?
Do you even have a date for a D hearing?
Has she even filed for D?
Has she even filed for Sep?

Calm yourself, this is far from over.
I said the fact that she keeps your emails shows that she's confused. That means your Plan A is having an impact. But DON'T get your hopes up and think "she's coming home soon" because she keeps them, and DON'T despair and think "It's all over now" if she deletes them. She's flakey. Her actions show confusion, nothing more. Confusion is good.

Expose to EVERYONE you can in one big assault. Siblings, cousins, her friends, her HR department (if they work together), people at church if you go... EVERYONE you can think of.

Keep up your good plan A until you have a solid Plan B letter in place. I haven't seen even a rough draft yet, so don't get too excited about jumping into plan B

DO NOT talk to her about the relationship and where it went wrong. Your friends are wrong, wrong, wrong. Keep up with your Plan A. Be interesting. Be upbeat. Be attractive. Relationship talk is NOT what she wants to hear and it will send her running in the other direction.

Your homework for the weekend:
1 - EXPOSE (remember you're asking them to support you and W, not to pick sides)
2 - Draft a Plan B letter and post it here
3 - If you interact with WW, PLAN A.

You can do this. Just take a deep breath, enhance your calm, and slow down. It is a long slow process. I have high hopes for your M.

Now go do your homework!

UPDATE:
Just wanted to throw this out there and see what you guys think.
This has to do with her Facebook page... and a couple emails in it.

As mentioned it looks like she changed her "Married" status to "Separated" but only left it up for about a day then ended up getting a bunch of emails from people that were concerned so she just took her status off completely.

Here are a couple emails that she has actually responded to, there are a few others but she hasn't responded back to them.

This was to a mutual friend we have but I hadn't told him anything yet...

# 1 Friend (male): "Hope everything is ok and that all is well. What happened anyhow?'
WW: "I'm doing ok and all is well as it could be right now on my half. I really don't know what to say about anything. Moved to the city, living with a friend of mine in XXXX......"

This one is to some guy friend that I've never met but I think he's some guy she knew from high school...

#2 Friend (male) "So whats the story with you relationship status?? I know you'd moved out awhile back, but haven't caught you on here forever. Very sad about that BTW"
WW: "God I make one change and everyone needs to know. I'm not on here very often because I don't have the internet in my apartment. Yes, I live in XXXX. I don't really know what to tell people other than that. Not alot of people know, I'm not proud of it. I wish it didn't have to be this way. But it does and is."

Can anyone read into this a bit for me? How can I approach her knowing what I know?

From how you describe her behavior, and from the fact that the affair has been on for about 4 months, she is very likely still very much in the fog, inebriated by her infatuation. Yet, you expect her to know her own feelings, to be honest and to be considerate of you. Frankly, your wasting your time (at least for now).

You cannot force her out of her infatuation. If there is a chance for reconciliation and recovery, you will have to wait until the infatuation runs its course and she sobers up and comes out of the fog.

You basically have one of two paths to follow if you want to take advantage of any chance of saving the M - Plan A or Plan B. If you choose plan A, you must remain strong and confident. If you find that is too hard, and no one would blame you if you did, then Plan B would be the appropriate path.

But, even if she says it is done, at this point you don't have to believe her. I would say go to Plan B, and take care of business, both legally and financially, to keep yourself protected. But, that doesn't mean you have to sell the house, or whatever else she demands, if that is not in your interest at present.

good luck

My WW has made no demands since the beginning. Not one. She always said that she only wanted her stuff that is truely hers. She's never asked me to sell that house and is happy that if this falls apart to divorce that she wants me to keep it(if I can afford it), she's asked for none of the appliances, couches, bed, furniture, except for an extra set of coffee/end tables and a set of lamps.
We have two cats, one is hers that she has had for 7yrs and mine that she bought for me 3 yrs ago. I know that she misses those cats dearly but we agreed that we can't split them and her being in an apartment means no pets. I did tell her she could visit them whenever, BUT that was before I confronted her on the PA and then I've told her she has no rights to visit...not a peep out of her....

Seems like I still get a bit of mixed messages on Plan A and B and which one I should stay in...
Honestly I can go both ways, whichever will give me the best chance to keep my marriage alive. I'm strong enough to do Plan A or B just not sure which. I'm going to write up my Plan B letter this weekend and post it up here...

Like said before, looks like she is plan B me?? It has been suggested I go to Plan B because of this.

Should I just Plan B and get my lawyer to draw up separation papers that way all legal issues are delt with now....maybe this would wake her up??? Everyone has said she is cake-eating. I've only been groveling at her feet, pleading with her to come back. I FEEL I NEED to MAKE A STAND and show her HAVE A BACKBONE...
I know it's been said NOT to do the sep myself, make her do it but I feel that she either can't/won't becuase that will hurt her so much and also that she doesn't want to hurt me??? BUT then why would she go onto her Facebook page last weekend and change her relationship status from Married to Seperated? As soon as people questioned her she took her status off completely and now it's blank. She knows I would find out, she has a bunch of my close friends on there that were instantly notifed of her status change.

If you want to still save your marriage then do not file for a D. Instead file for a legal separation. Dividing assests and protecting you financially while you plan B WW.

oxThat's exactly what I was going to do, separation papers. See how she reacts.

UPDATE:
Checked her email again...I know I should probably stop that.

Anyways, Once again she kept my pleasant email about me feeling bad about her being sick and wanting to bring her chicken noodle soup etc.
WW also kept the email I sent later that day which was just the forward of the house appraisal.

YET SHE HAS NOT EMAILED ME A NICE EMAIL SINCE MAY....SHOULD I BOTHER TO KEEP EMAILING HER???

Would you please quit trying to make sense out of what she says and does? She is TOTALLY irrational now. Seriously, trying to predict the future of your M based on what she says and does, or trying to figure out what you should do based on what she says... well, that's like putting your life savings on a roulette number because your pet earthworm turned east instead of north.

It's up to you to be strong, stable, and steadfast. You're the lighthouse and she's the floundering ship. The lighthouse doesn't react to the ship. The ship drifts here and there, sometimes it looks good, sometimes it looks bad. But the lighthouse stands firm and constant. That is your job. To stand firm and constant and quit reacting to every little thing she does.

Never listen to her words.
Only watch her actions.

Her actions show she is confused. That means your Plan A is working. She's not sure what she wants, and OM isn't meeting all her ENs.

She is cake-eating BIG time. I think a Plan B is probably a good idea now that you've done a strong Plan A. When you were considering Plan B before, you had waffled a lot and sent her mixed messages. If you had done a plan B back then, she might have thought you were done and wanted out. She might have filed for D thinking she'd ruined everything and there was no hope of reconciliation.

Now you've done a good strong Plan A, she knows you love her. A Plan B will force her to look at the situation she's created. OM wont' be able to meet all her ENs. The A will eventually end. She's not head over heels about OM. She's not taking him everywhere with her and bragging about him to her friends and family. She's just very confused. You have a great chance at recovering your M.

Plan B is effective if done correctly, but if done poorly it will just allow her to continue cake eating and give her a sense of power and entitlement. A poor Plan B can strengthen the A because she doesn't have to worry about consequences of her A; she knows you're waiting in the wings and she doesn't feel guilty every time you're nice to her. You do not want that.

You must be ready to do a very strong Plan B. NO CONTACT. That means not snooping in her email, not checking her facebook, not asking friends how she's doing. Are you really up to that? Think very hard about this.

Regarding the separation papers, only file them if you need them to protect yourself financially. Otherwise, don't take a step or make a peep about ending the M in any way.

You're SO RIGHT Turtlehead! I'm trying to tell the future based on little evidence that I can scrape up! I'm driving myself crazy trying to read into what she says/does...

I NEED to be that lighthouse. Stand strong. Very true.

I'm not sure if my Plan A has been strong enough. You say it is?
It's only been a few light-hearted emails lately...I always hear everyone in Plan A gets together with WS publicly for fun and entertainment, talk on the phone (not about relationship), where they can spend quality time together so when Plan B hits, it hits much harder....I haven't been able to do that. Isn't that needed?

As for the seperation papers, they are ONLY needed right now to protect one thing. The value I would need to pay W when the divorce is final as I want to keep the house. We agreed to have the house appraised as it stands when she left. It will be added to the sep papers that she is entitled to 1/2 the equity in the house based on the appraisal value and nothing more as I continue to invest more money and time into completing the renovations and therefore increasing the value of the house. We both felt that was fair at the time BUT until those sep papers are signed off by W I take the risk that she will go back on her word and if renos are complete my payout to her will be MUCH larger!
I'm trying to protect myself (financially in future), and want to finish the renos now in case WW wants to come home in next few months, the renos being inclomplete for over a year now has REALLY bothered her. I want her to come back to a house that's comfortable and inviting.
I CAN take the risk and start on the renos now.... mostly everything is at house, purchased, just need to do the work...

If WW moves out and won't date. Then you can't. But those are not the only way to plan A. However time to plan B.

Only you know if you've done a good Plan A. Your emails are *great*.

Affection is an EN that's darned near impossible to meet if you aren't seeing WW in the flesh - and even then it's very, very difficult to meet because waywards frequently stiffen up and don't want to be touched.

You might figure out a way to have a chat or send her an email that mentions affection without sounding needy. Something like "I look forward to the day we can spend Saturday mornings snuggled up under the covers listening to a summer thunderstorm again, like we used to do. I cherish times like that."

Of course you'd pick an affectionate activity (not sex! that's different from affection!) that's appropriate to your history.

You might also let her know that you're doing the renovations on the house. This would be a very good thing to mention, because it's something that bothered her for a long time and she's probably built it up in her mind now until it's a monstrous shortcoming of yours. You could say "Ripped out the sink and toilet in the guest bath last night. What a mess! But I can see how the improvements are going to make it spectacular." Or mention some smaller project that's already showing good results: "You were right, that old color in the kitchen was too much. I've painted it a pale yellow and it's so light and open. You'll love it!"

Talk to your lawyer about whether you need the separation papers in place to protect your investments in the house. If he says you do need something in writing then follow his advice.

Wish I could take credit for the lighthouse analogy, but it's one that's been around these boards for a long time. It's strikingly appropriate, don't you think?

I've seen it said here that Plan B is good for getting a cake eater off the fence. Remember, though - you're 100% in Plan A until you decide on Plan B. Then it's done *only* with a carefully drafted letter and you go 100% DARK. So for now... Plan A, and be the lighthouse!!