HTM,
I think one thing that makes us awkward is I am very short, 5.3", OW is more average size 5.6 or there abouts, so sometimes H seems to 'miss' when when he's coming in for a kiss LOL.
Im sure it'll come right again.

thanks HTM..

I am thinking you may be right with that, as I know she has had a lot to deal with in a short period of time. I know she want me to just get over it.

I do meet a friend once weekly, but honestly it has turned into a non-sharing time in that regard because he just does not seem to listen at that time. So I guess for now I will come here to share some of those things, but I am also very aware that there are many BS here.

Also I like the ideas for connecting, I relate to songs so much, and she knew and I gave her the list of all the song OW and I shared. I have started related songs back to my wife, we have about five now. My favorite is "Learning how to Bend" by Gary Allen. That's what I feel like I am doing. I just feel like it will be a while for intimacy to be what she wants, and that feeds her insecurity.

I like the country/rock song called "Till We Ain't Strangers Anymore" by Bon Jovi and LeAnn Rimes.

Maybe you could make a mix cd for W of songs for the two of you. There are lots of great inspirational songs...especially country if that's your thing.

HTM

Here you go:

Till We Ain't Strangers Anymore

and

I'd Rather

Wow, just brushing up on the details, and your OW was HOW many years younger?

N2L8:

Nice Start.

I advised you about talking to your BS when you were thinking about OW. You may or may NOT want her to know why you called. But just call. ANd talk to her. About the weather, your kids, washing the car, walking the dog or something like that.

My BS KNEW at that time about the A, and it was one of our ways to get back in touch with each other. I talked w/OW alot prior to Dday. At Dday, she had planned two weeks off of work anyway, and that helped ALOT. She was home, I could be home, and we did alot of talking.

Thoughts will occur to you about OW, "the Black Hummer" Some of these things you can talk to your BS about. But she has to let you know what she is comfortable with. Your triggers should be known to her as well. That allows you to work as a team to avoid/overcome them. Also, work with your BS to discover HER triggers. They will come fast and hurt alot for her at first, and from completley unexpected directions. WOrk with her. Say your sorry, listen to WHY she is triggered and find ways to minimize her pain. i.e., never stare at a black hummer, or drive a new route to work because you don't pass by the restaurant she knows trhe two of your went too.

Discussing her triggers, and you being honest with her about your actions during the A will result in her pain and more potential triggers. Reveal it all. As soon as possible. Otherwise, it is the death by a thousand cuts, extended over the length of time you make her wait. And what YOU think is unimportant may may serious implications for her. But she had the right to know. IT IS HER CALL. If she only wants to know A. B. C., then give it to here. If she asks for D. E. F, later, give her that. Even if she stops at B, be prepared to go to F. Its her call.

Hang in there. Your doing the RIGHT things now.

LG

Yes, a very important book to read. If your wife is interested, I would recommend it for her as well. But either way, this should be your next book.




I would recommend HN/HN after you read SAA. And then, fill out the questionnaires that are on this site. You can print them off of this site.

Let us know when you are reading HN/HN, and we can give you some feedback.





It's good that you've changed your cell number and closed your other accounts.

You must tell your employer the truth as to why you need your email and work number changed. This is part of repentance and protecting your wife. It's not as hard as you think it is. It actually is an ego-deflating process that brings you closer to God instead of apart.

You mentioned in another post that you were concerned that your employer would have to pay to have your number and email changed. I would suggest that when discussing why they need changed, that you offer to pay for any charges associated with the changes. It's really that simple.






When reading SAA, you will see the importance of a NC letter. This letter is not just for OW or for you, it is for your wife. It is an action you take to demonstrate that you are backing up your words. It is a MUST DO. I would recommend that you write this letter immediately, post it here so we can help you with wording, then ask your wife to read it and let you know if she would like anything changed. Once she approves it, SHE mails it out to OW, so that SHE knows it was sent and knows what it said.

I strongly agree about the NC letter. I didn't understand the importance of it at the beginning. I even tried to help persuade people here that it wasn't necessary for my H to write it. I finally decided that enough people were telling me it was needed, that he should do it. It was a HUGE turning point for ME as a BS because it wasn't just for OW...it showed me that H was willing to commit to writing what he intended.

Very important.

HTM

just want to say a quick thanks for the advice. I belive TST had suggested I read the 4 principles and it stood out to me that we are not spendning enough time together, so that is what we did all yesterday. Movie shopping, maybe not the best to have quality time per se but it worked for us at this point. Also I know it sounds strange, well at least to me, after all this time that it would finally don on me through this that I have to take action, and at the moment I don't know who posted to remind me of that.

Next steps:

1. write a response in case o/w tries contact so I am prepared
2. write n/c letter
3. talk to work about ph change and e-mail change (in the meantime of that change, let calls go to voice mail, and forward any e-mails to my wife un-opened.
3. call harleys for phone appt
4. read SAA

well, today is our aniversary officially 23yrs. so I will get back to this tomorrow. And get to spending our day together.

Not2L8,

I wanted to try to help a little bit, especially on apologizing to your daughter.

I just read a great book that has me on a completely new path in my life.

I want you to think for just a minute about what you would say to your daughter, IF she were sitting in front of you. If she were open to hear whatever it was you truly wanted to say, and needed to say. If you were to pour your heart out to her, and you were completely honest about what you had to say and do.

Those words would include:

How stupid you had been
How you had betrayed your wife
How selfish you had been
How you had betrayed your children
How you had not focused on the pain of others, and instead had only focused on what you alone had wanted
How much of a liar you became
How much trust you had destroyed
How wrong the entire affair had been
And somehow, you know that the OW was NOT worth this

And how now, looking back, that you know the entire thing could never be erased or taken away, and that you owe an apology to everyone - an apology so big that perhaps it cannot be given, but that you are offering what you can, in hopes that you can be given the chance to begin to make amends.

Yet, somehow, even though these acts betray the very foundation of what love is, that you do love her and want to spend the rest of your life trying to show her that. And that you are working on getting help for yourself to change, grow, and learn to do just that.

Maybe that is what your apology should have in it.

Since she won't talk to you, write a letter. Incorporate those ideas into the letter. If you cover it all, it should go pretty far to start the process for you.

SB

Congratulations on 23 years! That's an accomplishment worth celebrating.

It sounds like you are starting to see things with your own eyes...something that I find many WH have trouble doing. They know that things must change, but they don't see WHAT.

Great list. Great work.

My suggestion to you...give yourself a deadline for these items. Let your W know what you are going to do and when you plan to do it. Then DO it just the way you say. This will not only help your W see that you are working on recovery, but it also will help rebuild trust because you are doing what you say.

HTM

Well given the advice here, below is my first attempt at the NC letter. Input on it is welcome.

Dear O/W


I know we have previously discussed and agreed to having no further contact, this letter is to confirm that. What I did was a selfish act and a complete betrayal of my wife and family. I owe it to them to honor the oath I took 23yrs ago. As that is my focus and desire, I am letting you know I will never contact you, and would ask that you never contact me.

Thanks,

SB- thanks for the input. You have no idea how much you have helped in our situation already. Your ability to communicate how to communicate has gotten us to where we are. I used much of your advice to another poster on how to come clean in everything. So thanks so much. Also I had sent my wife a post you had posted in regards to body language, and I know she is applying them and it helps a great deal.

This area with my daughter is on my mind frequently. Naturally I agree with your approach and will begin working on that. What would you suggest as a way of getting it to her after I write it. If I e-mail she could easily delete it without reading, of course I guess that is her choice. Do you have any suggestions on how or even if I should address anything as to how she is handling it. Let me explain a bit.

First I have told her prior that I understand what she is doing, I kind of think of it as a plan b on her part. As a matter of fact I have defended her to the entire family, as even the extended family on both sides don't understand why she is taking this approach. That being said she has always been pretty close to her mom, but does not at all understand why her mom is choosing to stay with me. That is leading to issues for the two of them, as well as the other two kids resenting thier sister. I am at a loss as to is there anything I can or should say to any of them, and of course how to say it. So if there is anything you could share about that it would be greatly appreciated.

htm- thanks for the input on putting dates to it. Definately easier to list them then to say by when. But I certainly can see the importance of doing that.

N2L8,

I am quoting exactly what was said to ME when I posted my NC Letter. Your letter is as weak as my first attempt was.


I added your name inside the quote.


I hope this helps you. It is the most important step you will take in helping your marriage recover and helping your wife to heal.

I agree with tst...while your letter was a good first attempt, it is not strong enough. Here's another example (my H wrote this one), although in light of the one tst shows, I am thinking my H missed the grievous mark:

OW,

I love and respect my wife and children. I want to protect my marriage and rebuild my relationship with my wife. I will never communicate with you again nor accept any communications from you. What I have done is hurtful to my wife and everyone involved. No one deserves this kind of hurt. There is no need to go point counter-point, the affair is over.

H

Just another example, although like I said above, I think my H may not have made it as strong as it could have been (but we were new at it and I didn't share it here before we sent it).

HTM

TST & HTM thanks.

I can see where the first attempt was pretty weak. Here is my second attempt.

O/W I know we have previously agreed to N/C. This is to confirm that. My relationship with you was a horrendous act of selfishness, and has caused my wife and family great pain that they did not deserve. Although I cannot undo this, I am choosing to do what is right, and am going to work at becoming the husband and father they deserve. Out of respect for my wife and family our relationship must end. I will not contact you any further and would ask that you would do the same.

Sincerely,


I like the template you sent TST but I also like to put it in my own words and still get the point accross. I hope this attempt does that better. Please provide any feedback on it.

I got the SAA book, and just started reading it so I was able to go to pg 58 and read it.

Also have appointment with Harley's on Thursday eve.

Thanks again for taking your time to help me/us through this

These are some changes that I think still need made.

Remember, you can not ask OW to do anything, you firmly tell her what you expect.


Not2L8, Please remember, this is mainly a letter for your wife.
The point you need to get across is that you love your wife and family.
You will be giving the final draft of this letter to your wife for her to read, approve, and mail.
This is a step that demonstrates your committment to your wife. It is also an action step that will help your wife begin to heal from the wake of destruction you have created.

I'm glad you're willing to let us see your work and give you feedback.

That's fantastic!

Jennifer helped my wife and me tremendously.

I agree with tst about who the letter is for. My H knew that before I did...and wrote it with that in mind. I have a photocopy that I read regularly. It really is important that you make it a statement of your commitment to your W.

I think your second try is much better. I might tweak it a little to make it more of an expectation and not a question (as tst said), but other than that it sounds great.

Something you may also want to do is bounce it off of your W. She may have opinions to share with you about it as well. As long as she understands that YOU are writing it, she may be helpful in guiding what needs to be said (for her).

HTM