Correct.

Not every person subscribes to a religious theology that suggest that premarital sex is wrong. Adultery is an assault on a spouse by the very person that is sworn to protect them forever.

Premarital sex is a choice between two people to engage in a mutually enjoyable act (for those that are so inclined).

Adultery should be a crime. Premarital sex should always be a choice for those not bound by religious convictions.

I agree that adultery should be a crime.

But that doesn't negate the fact that fornication is also a serious sin; whether one "subscribes" to that belief is irrelevant.

I am not a fan of moral relativism, and that's what this is.

And I am not a fan of placing my morality on every other person. Not everyone is a Christian.

eta...and since premarital sex is NOT a UNIVERSAL standard for morality, I do not see it as moral relativism. If a Christian wants to argue why THEY should be able to have premarital sex, I would agree with the use of this term.

MEDC, I understand what you are saying; I truly do. I consider you to be a man who lives morally. But I disagree that fornication is not wrong for some people.

There are some societies (tribes) in which it is perfectly acceptable for married men to have sex with young teens or pre-teens to initiate them into womanhood. I consider that completely wrong, whether they do or not.

You consider it completely wrong because of your religion, ergo, you would not partake in this. To do so would be immoral because it goes against your beliefs.

They do not consider it wrong, therefore, they are not acting immorally.

Any deeper than this acknowledgement of differences and it becomes judgement, which is not our place regardless of what religious background you come from. It should be enough to know that these differences exist and that when it comes to choosing a partner for yourself, you would prefer one with similar enoughbeliefs to you that you do not find yourself thinking that actions they take are immoral.

agreed

Might I respectfully say, that sounds like a very foggy statement which could lead right down a slippery slope.

I'm glad I believe in moral absolutes.

OK, I'm off to work; have a great weekend everyone!

btw...despite their beliefs, I think this should be ended since children are involved.

Thanks. Now I understand you a lot better.

me too...but I don't think premarital sex is one of them.

murder
rape
stealing


those are some absolutes imho.

How is it foggy and how can it lead down a slippery slope? I know what my beliefs are and they are no less absolute that yours. But I can acknowledge that others have different beliefs than mine. While they may do things I would consider immoral for myself, there are things I do that are considered immoral by others. For example, in some cultures, the fact that I listen to music and don't hide my face in public is immoral. As long as they don't accuse me of being immoral, and I don't try to coerce them in to doing these things, we can coexist.

Hi All,

This is a very interesting discussion. Unfortunately, I don't have much time today to join in. But, thought I would lob this gernade (sp) into the discussion and then run.

My father often to explained to me his view of human nature. He said "Son, the two great motivators in life are fear and greed. If you run into someone that shows neither trait stay away from them they are dangerous."

Now perhaps he was being a little pessimistic, but over my lifetime, I have come to think he is right. Our moral code, whatever it is, is an attempt to address those motivators and turn them to "good" use. We all fear certain things, on here the logical number 1 thing would be having a spouse cheat. We all want many things beside just money, a faithful W/H we can depend on and that loves us is probably high on the list.

Civilization and moral codes are about balancing these things to minimize harm and offer protection. For example if I am a MORAL person, I will not have an affair with someone elses W even if I don't believe in the sanctity (sp) of marriage. Why? Because it would harm one or both of the members of the marriage. Yet I cannot deny the "greed" element in what motivates me. To do that would be to ignore a powerful motivator. Hence I have always taken precautions to never put myself in situations where I would be tempted to fail my marriage vows. If I am on a diet I don't buy cookies.

I think people are intrinsically good. I think people are motivated by fear and greed. That means good people can and do fail. However, if properly motivated (internally or externally) good people return to being good. I am not so naive to think that ALL people are intrinsically good. I would bet MEDC has met a few that are just plain evil. I sure have.

But, my sense that people are intrinsically good, is what motivates and challenges me when a WS comes here. They would not come here if deep down they weren't good and looking for a way out, even if they cannot see it, or think (consciously) that there is no way. The challenge is to help them find their way.

Interestingly, most do find their way. They become what they intrinsically always were...good. But, one should never under estimate the two great motivators. That is my thinking.

I look forward to your thoughts.

God Bless,

JL

This statement jumped out at me! Yes, I know I'm using it (sorta)out of context, but I could not let it go by without mentioning why it jumped out at me.

I said the above quote while I was actively wayward.(GAG) I would hate to see the 2x4's if I were to use those words to defend any of my actions here on the MB site. There would be splinters flying everywhere.

BTW, where is it written that we are not to make judgements about people, places and things. We all must judge everyday. People made judgements about me while I was actively wayward and people make judgements about me in recovery. I have no problem with others looking at my actions and holding me accountable. That IS judging.
You cannot set a standard unless you are willing to judge.
A Moral Relativist may use the standard "Good vs Bad"
A Religious person may use the standard "Righteous vs Evil"
One still must judge to place anything within those boundaries.

My thoughts are, it is our place to judge regardless of what religious background we come from. Or else we prescribe to the standard that there are no standards.

OK, OK, I'm going back to work now!

JustLearning,

You're very insightful. May I ask what your story is?

Maybe when you tell us yours!!!

HRUH?

I thought it was God's place to judge, not ours.

Charlotte

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Tst, I think we all know the answer to that one, especially since your statement was totally ignored (SOP).

BA,

I ask this in all sincerity. What is it that has kept you coming back to a board that has obviously not welcomed your presence? I can't imagine that you have that much free time that you would decide to use it to harass others.

Have you had the chance to see any of Randy Pausch's work? Specifically his Time Management and Last Lectures??? If not, they might help you deal with the obvious obsession you have with this board.

Time is a very precious commodity.