If she's not pushing to sell the house, and you're still wanting to save the marriage, why are you getting an appraisal and putting it up for sale?

From the few states I am familiar with, marital assets and not divided until a final divorce. In a sep agreement, typically, support and visitation are established (apparently not issues in your case), and the parties may waive any marital claim on the property acquired by the other party after the agreement. If you both agree and have the house sold, and then she emerges from the fog and is willing to reconcile, where does that leave the two of you, still living in separate residences?

I could be wrong, galoot, but I think he is no longer considering selling the home.

However, he *is* about to put a ton of money and sweat equity into it in the form of renovations and he doesn't want her having access to half of that time and money he's about to invest, IF she decides to split.

Alone, correct me if I'm wrong.

Alone, what did you finally decide to do about this? Expose, or not? Personally I think you should. It's not a happy task, and I didn't do it for fear of upsetting my WH - but in retrospect I sure wish I had exposed. Yes, there will be fireworks -- but it's a very powerful tool and hastens the end of the A.

You say she's probably hidden everything from her family, but they won't contact you. She may have told them terrible untrue things, that you were mistreating her, or that you were in an A yourself -- who knows? I think you should go to their homes and expose in person, especially to her parents and if she's close to her sisters, expose to them as well.

If they live too far away to drive, send a certified letter exposing all.

Remember, the point of exposure is not to point fingers or to get her family to take "your side". It's to enlist their support of both you and WW in rebuilding your M and ending the A.

Turtlehead's right on the money Galoot.

I'm not selling the house or putting it up for sale. The appraisal idea was brought up by father-in-law in the early stages of WW moving out and living with them for a month.

He said it would only be fair to both of us that we have an appraisal to value the house when WW moved out. That way I can continue renos and IF we do get divorced WW would only be entitled to the value from when she left.

I NEED to finish up the unfinished renos. It's a single story house and I've torn the main bath completely out, only have a make-shift one in the basement that was temp BUT now it's taken over a year and the main bath is still only lumber!
WW will not come home if it stays this way. I think it has really driven her nuts along with other projects that aren't done.
If I Plan B now I will NOT be able to contact her and let her know how the renos are going, how great it looks. All walls in our house are white since the day we moved in 4 yrs. ago!! I'm going to start painting the bedrooms etc and want her to know about that too. It's part of my 180 plan to show her I'm not going to be a lazy SOB who says something and never does it.

I would like to stay in Plan A for a few more weeks while I do this work and send a few more emails...even though she is plan B'ing me. I think that will show her that I'm still here and haven't given up. After that it will be time for Plan B. Started on my letter will post soon for your review.

This sound reasonable?

I have talked to her parents via email the first week WW left to stay with them. They told me then that they care for me very much and want things to work out BUT they feel that they need to stay out of our marriage and let us work it out on our own. That's what their parents did to them and they have been married for ~30yrs. That's why they won't talk to me...
I talked to father-in-law on the phone the day after I confronted WW and told him our situation was VERY serious and this could be over in days. That my W has hurt me by doing the worst thing possible to me, BUT never said it to him outright that she is in a PA. He was concerned, admitted that they had no idea it was that bad. He said, "I know your trying" and said he'd try talking to her in the next day or so.
I don't think my WW has said anything bad. She's probably giving them ( the whole family) the same story she gave me... I'm not happy at home, I question my love for H, I feel I need to be on my own to figure out what's best for me....
As for her sisters I never talked to them much except at family gatherings. We get along great just don't have much in common to talk about. They are close to WW.

I want to expose to them but I feel that they will think I'm only doing it now because I want to hurt everyone...I need some help on how to say it...

"As you may be aware, W and I have been having some problems in our marriage recently. It pains me greatly to tell you that she is having an affair with OM. Despite the immense hurt, I do dearly love WW. I'm taking steps to rectify my shortcomings and I hope one day we can rebuild our marriage better than it was before. I ask your support of WW and myself as we navigate this extremely difficult time."


Is OM married? Try to expose on his side, too. His wife, his parents, whoever you can find to expose to. Also, if they work together, expose to the HR department where they work. Companies don't generally like abuse of time and resources for the purpose of promoting an illicit affair.

You know what? You sure are a lot more focused than when you first started posting here. Kudos to you. It's hard to focus when your world has been ripped out from under you.

You must expose the PA to WW's parents.

Ok Road and Turtlehead,
I am starting to feel the strength to do this, tell them about the PA. Thanks so much for sticking by me! Thanks Turtlehead for the words of advice on how to explain it to them, that should be perfect!

I've been praying, studying everything I can read, and trying to 180 myself from my past faults. I'm starting to understand that if PA goes untold that her parents will be there to support her not knowing the whole truth. I know she'll get mad. She'll tell me to back off, let her be and it's over.


I'm sorry to be thinking this but it has stuck with me these last few months and I just can't get it out of my head...maybe if I write it down you can help me with it...

Why am I scared/have a funny feeling that she is truely over our marriage? That she IS moving on and this OM is just someone to hold onto while she goes through this???? I don't know how to explain it. It's like she was giving me signs a 4-5 months ago to see her drifting away, unhappy, didn't talk much, didn't hide the fact that she was talking to OM on the phone, and instant messaging, told me she was hanging at his place in the beginning. Told me that she wasn't happy at home, that it's too comfortable and that we never do anything and she's sick of it. She told me that we both need to change and that she was scared (before she moved out to her apartment) that I was going to end it or start the separation. Now she seems like she made the decision that she is tired of our marriage and doesn't want to try. From what I read in posts pretty much 99% of the affairs where WS is confronted they say:
"I'm so sorry, it will never happen again!"
"I don't know what I was thinking"
"I do love you, let's work on this"
"Please forgive me"
Lie through their teeth that it isn't happening becuase they are so scared to admit it!

Yet, my WW, told me in 3 questions to her. Didn't cry, didn't plead with me, didn't say sorry, didn't even look like she felt bad though her face seemed like there was a lot of thought going on. She is still hanging around with OM constantly and staying the night like nothing happend, like she doesn't have a care in the world for how this PA might make me feel.....


Yet, still no papers from her, and the comments (these said right after I confronted her PA):
"I don't know how I'll feel in a few more months"
"It's not a relationship, OM is just nice to me"

This to me doesn't seem like a standard affair. Doesn't the WS usually fall for the OM/OW??? That they feel in love? That there is a lust/ excitement? I know this could be fog talk too but am having a hard time believing it whne it doesn't seem like WW has very strong feelings for OM yet will not come home or talk to me?

Who knows what goes on in the mind of a wayward.

Honestly? It sounds to me like she was doing everything but hitting you over the head with an iron skillet, but you weren't hearing her. I don't think she wants the A, I think she wants the M but got worn out telling you her concerns and you not hearing her.

That is, if she really was sending out warning signs 4-5 months ago and the A hadn't yet started.

Now she's probably half addicted to OM and half not trusting that your changes and improvements are permanent.

It's going to take steady commitment on your part to bring her around. Most waywards think their spouse only changes "on the surface" or "just until he lures me back". They think their BS will just revert to the old comfortable ways. They don't trust that the changes and improvements are for real, or that they're permanent. They're so used to being unhappy, and miserable, and unheard, that they don't trust this time is different.

Here's a tricky thing - waywards all rewrite marital history. They don't do it on purpose, but their "feelings" are telling them how happy they are now, and how miserable they were. Their memory truly gets distorted. They remember the bad things much larger than life. They forget the good things. You can safely discard just about every complaint your WS has lodged since she met OM.

BUT... did she complain BEFORE she met OM? If so, those complaints are now bits of gold because they tell you exactly what changes to make. If she complained about the renovations never getting done, or about living in a construction zone all the time - well then, that's something to work on now and to live by in the future, always and forever.

Don't kill yourself trying to fix all her "complaints" since she met OM because they're most likely fabricated or way out of proportion. Any complaints that she had BEFORE OM, well, sit up and take notice of those. They are extremely useful bits of information and you'd do well to take them to heart.

One thing about exposure... I didn't do it because I didn't know about MB back then, and I feared my husband's wrath. Now that I understand it better, I realize that the more wrath, the better. The anger just means you're bursting her private little bubble, and that she has to look at her ugly choice of behavior for what it really is. So don't be afraid of the post-exposure temper tantrum. Embrace it, for it means progress is being made!

Exactly!!! She even said to me, "Didn't you see the signs?"
I told her "No, I was totaly blind because I had so much trust in you and NEVER thought that you would leave. I didn't realize how serious everything was. Sometimes you need to hit me over the head with a frying pan."

So with that said, I agree with you, she probably doesn't want the affair, that's probably why she says it's not a relationship, that she doesn't know how she'll feel in a few more months etc. Everyone on here says don't believe that it wasnt a PA before she left. Yet I can't convince myself of that, the things she has said and the emails of her stopping his advancements while she was at home tell me that it was only an EN until she left. Then I think she started to convince herself that all hope is lost???

Anyways, with this information do my tacticts stay the same? How can I make sure she understands that I'm making changes that will stick and not go back to the same old? Should I start giving her some links to things I've been reading? Email her with my progress? Keep Plan A'ing for longer because I think that she wants to see my changes and doesn't want me to give up on her?

Thanks so much Turtlehead, I finally feel a bit more understood as to my situation!!

Turtlehead, Road, and others...
I don't see much help from my WWs family members if I expose. This is the week that I HAVE TO FIGHT! It's gone too long that I haven't done something, 2 weeks since I found out about the PA. Is it a good idea to approach the OM, some here have said don't unless you have to and expose to others that will influence OM but I have no one.

My thoughts:
I want to confront the OM, I can not find anyone I can expose him to. I was thinking of sending him an email (yes have his email address and phone # but WW is always there) and telling him to call me. Not sure what to write in the email. Remember, he knows who I am!

Thinking I want to either say, "OM, it's BH, I have waited too long and this needs to be delt with now. I would like you to call me ASAP to discuss your intentions with my WW and would like to tell you that I want to save my marriage." Call me @ #, I will be waiting for your call."

Or something like this, " OM, it's BH, I have already confronted my WW and she has told me of the PA and I know that she is spending most, if not all of her nights with you. I think we need to discuss your intensions with my WW knowing that I want to save my marriage. Call me @ # when you recieve this email. I will be speaking to her parents of marrital issues in the very near future."

What are you going to tell OM stop banging my WW?
You will only appear weak to OM. There is not much you can do to OM that will not get you into jail or sued.

You need to expose to WW parent's and her siblings. If OM and WW work togehter then you can expose at work.

I'm tired of writing this: Why be afraid to expose WW? What is WW going to do if you expose her? Bang the OM? No how foolish of me to suggest that. WW is already banging the OM.

Great strategy of yours to delay expsoing WW. How long are you going to wait? Till WW gets an STD to bring home? Or till the OM knocks up your WW? Or till WW gets STD and knocked up?

It's 4:30am, and look at me. I never have a full nights sleep because I always have her running through my mind. She's fence sitting and I can't take her banging some other guy while I wait around.
I know my mood continually changes, I'm sorry. I know you all know whats best becuase you've been there before and I need to listen up.

Expose to her parents and sisters, and maybe the GF that she moved in with. I also have email contact for a friend of hers that she looks up to. An old boss that she looks up to.

I don't have anything to loose, this is not marriage, this doesn't make me happy.

Alone,

Don't give up hope necessarily. Just because she readily admitted her A doesn't mean she' given up on the marriage. I discovered my FWW's PA the day after it began. When her whereabouts were a mystery for 3 hours one Friday evening, and then 5 hours the following Saturday afternoon, I questioned her Saturday evening as to where she was. After about 3 times asking, she said, "OK, you want to know where I was? You pushed me. I was fu&#162king R__ for the past 5 hours." She readily told me what and how they did it in bed. On Easter Sunday night, after telling me it wouldn't work out between us, she just stared while I cried, paced the floor, paced the porch, screamed, "Why, why why?". All she could say was I needed to get over it. When she later decided she wasn't going to leave me, but was going to eat cake, she told me what her schedule would be, which days she'd sleep with R__, and which with me. How considerate. You're right - agony is knowing that your WW is banging some other guy that very minute.

But, nevertheless, all was not lost. The PA ended at the end of April, and her phone calls with him gradually diminished (several false NC's). She appears to be sticking to it, and she has even suggested renewing our wedding vows.

So, don't give up on the marriage until either you or a judge say its over.


A WS can and will hide their feelings for OP from you. When my WW switched to cake eating, she would say things like, "I'll always care for you." and never mention her feelings for OM. Only once did she say the classic line, "I love you but I'm not in love with you." However, as we began reconciling, she would tell me how, back during the height of the A, she couldn't stop thinking of OM, and how she would put on music and just dance around the room, she was so euphoric over OM.

So, don't necessarily give up hope. She still appears inebriated from the infatuation. You're doing great.

BTW, Sorry about my miscomprehension over your plans for your house.

No offense, but you sound like her father. My daugher (age 25), after learning of A, called OM and said essentially the same thing. OM said that they both feel they are kindred spirits from a prior life and were destined to reunite in this one. PU. I would bet your WW's OM would have a similar line.


This is supposed to get him to reconsider? You're confusing him with someone who might care. Don't warn or discuss, just fight the fight - expose! It's your main weapon, along with Plan A.

Very valid, I'll be honest with you, I'M SCARED AS H#LL!!!

Your tactics stay exactly the same:
Plan A
EXPOSE <--- how many times do we have to type this?
Write Plan B letter and post it here
Talk to your lawyer re: protecting your investment in the house


You may never need the Plan B letter but it's good to get it worked out. If you suddenly find yourself unable to cope with the situation - and sometimes the breaking point jumps up and slaps you down with little warning - it's nice to have your ducks all in a row.

You absolutely do NOT want to give her links or share any literature with her right now. She absolutely does NOT want to be educated right now and trying to educate her is going to feel to her like you're being controlling, suffocating, blameful, and a host of other bad bad things.

Don't tell her of your progress. Talk is cheap. Talk is easy. SHOW her the changes in you. Mention what renovation work you've accomplished in an email. Be constant. Do not falter. Only time can convince her that your changes are for real and not some cheap trick to lure her back to her miserable marriage.

You said she asked "Didn't you see the signs?" -- if she gave you any hints that things were wrong then USE THOSE as a guideline to changes you can be making in yourself. But as I mentioned before, only pay attention to the things mentioned well before the A; after the A started she probably complained about every minute detail, such as how you brushed your teeth or the way you look when you sleep. So whatever she said after the A started is just nonsense and not worth your energy.

So, who are you going to expose to, and when, and how?

Galoot,

You say the PA ended at the end of April, I noticed your sign up as mid-April. What was your WW's timeline? Was there an EA before, did she move out or stay at home this whole time? How did you know the PA was done???

Mine is now 3 months strong and as the weeks go by she seems to be getting stronger and stronger in her decision to leave me. She's giving me no chances to show her any changes.

She's telling lots of her GFs how MUCH happier she is, she's excited to do these social things (but doesn't mention OM). She's saying, "Life is so great! So much fun am I having now, work is great, I've signed up for school....BUT when anyone asks about OUR relationship, she'll say one of two things, "I don't know what to say/tell you" or, only to two of her GFs "I've left BS"

This is getting pretty ridiculous.

Your WW has been gone for over 2 months ... you've got 10 pages of whining going on here ... and you STILL haven't done SQUAT to help your situation.

Confronting OM is a GREAT idea for a strong BH, but that's not you apparently ... you would rather sit on the sidelines and wring your hands while OM bangs, and bangs, and bangs your W.

I'm sorry, but I can't relate to this kind of weakness at ALL.

Is there ANYTHING that you would be WILLING to do to help your situation???

Since it doesn't appear that there is ... exactly why are you here wasting everyone's time???

Here's what I'm thinking for Exposure. Do it first thing next week as I will be out of town Thurs-Sun this week. Why do I have such a problem with this???

Here's who I will contact:

Email to the GF she is living with (though I think she's allowing this to go on with OM because she's invited THEM to the cabin etc.)
Email to her old boss that I think she really looks up to (she has been going for lunch with her and emails a bit).

Call her sisters and parents and tell them on the phone.

I would like to talk to her two best friends that I always speak of here BUT one is again not contacting me and the other is still miles away and hasn't had any contact with WW. They both know of the PA yet neither one wants to approach her.....

Since I haven't seen her for almost 3 weeks in person and haven't got an email back from her I was going to text her and ask her for coffee. All she can remember is me being a big baby and pleading for her to come home...this WILL NOT be that way. It will be calm, I'll show her I'm strong, I'm not sure what to talk to her about though?

What should be said and not said,

I know we shouldn't talk about divorce/sep but I need to know her thoughts on the appraisal if she is ok with it. This way I can get the sep papers drawn up.
Would bringing her a recent picture of the cats to keep be ok? It also shows in the pic the new bed spread I bought, that she would like.(Remember, she's wanted a new one for over a year now!!) Sneaky proof of positive changes?
I need to bring up the property tax with her that is due in a couple months. Need to know what she would be will to pay for. Should be 1/2 but I'm ok with 1/2 of the months she lived here.
I'll be out at the cabin building a new deck until Sun. Would it be stupid of me to mention an invite for her to come out for the day on the weekend? She'll say No for sure. It's a 2hr drive each way.

Just some ideas, what'd you think?