Tonight we have a meeting with our MC. I think I am going to lay it all out there. I can't handle anymore of WW crap. She has told me all the normal WW crap. The last month and a half she has just been real mean and short with me whenever I say anything. She spends all of her time, either with her friends or on the phone with them.

Tonight I am going to ask WW again if she wants to work on our M. She has said she does want to in the past, she just doesn't put the time in with me. If she wants to work on our M then her friends are going to have to take a back seat.

She will not go for this and that is my problem. What do I do after she says that she won't put her friends after our M.

Or is this just part of the withdrawal period?

I really feel like I can’t do it anymore and I need to take a stand.

I am going to ask my WW if she wants to commit to work on our M tonight. If she says she doesn't know if she can commit right now then I will say I can't force her to want to but I will never quit trying. If she is committed to working on it, I feel we need to do some things to give this a real try.

1. While we are working on our marriage we both need to be number one in each others lives. Friends have to take a back seat to our marriage.

2. We need to schedule one night a week for a Date. The other nights of the week need to be spent together. Suggestions: TV, movies, puzzles, games, working out, talking, sitting on the deck having a drink and talking. Anything that gets us together for 1 on 1 time. TV and movies are not the best 1 on 1 time for us growing back together, but would still be time spent with each other.

3. We need to have family time everyday. This can be going for walks, to the park, playing games or anything the girls want. But all four of us need to spend time together for some time.

4. Overall we need to have fun with each other and not be pressured to "feel something that isn't there". This is her big problem she just doesn't "feel the Passion" that she wants.

Well I made the mistake of asking her why she doesn't want to work on our M anymore.

This is her response.

I don't get anything out of this relationship, I'm not happy, I'm just empty inside.... I don't know if I will look back and regret it, all I know is I have been trying, you can say I haven't but I have. Also how am I suppose to try when I have to force it. I shouldn't have to force myself to want to do stuff with you.... I'm not gonna talk anymore, It just makes me feel like [censored] when I say these things to you, I know there not nice but you just keep pushing.....

Please help.

Is this withdrawals or is my M done?

I haven't responded to the above.

Noname,

So sorry you are going through this.

A few posts back it looked like your WW was in WD but it sounds very much like she is back in contact.

Just a thought but...it sounds like your WW's friend who is friends with OM may be a third party communicator or perhaps even connecting the two through a three way call...

Who have you exposed to? Have you ever contacted OM yourself?

After D-day one WW was using her friends phone to contact OM. I found this out after D-day 2. Supposedly WW friend is no longer in contact with OM friend, but I don't really belive that.

I have exposed to her closets friends, both of our parents and siblings, one of her aunts and her grandma.

I contacted OM one night and this was when I found out they were still in contact. I have thought about calling him again here that past couple weeks. The only thing is I fear I will make him contact her if he isn't now.

Is OM married? GF? How about exposing to his parents?

You sound like you are getting weary of this and I don't blame you. Just want to make sure you covered all your Plan A bases before you prepare to move to Plan B.

I don't know if you've read it but MC is basically useless while she is still in contact.

We spent from the end of Feb until the middle of June before NC was in place the second time. So I spent 4 months thinking she was working on our M, but realize it was all pretty much a waste of time now. So really I am only 2 months into this now.

OM is not married and does not have a girlfriend. I don't know who his parents are or what his last name is. He lives in another state, all I have is his cell phone number.

I just really don't know what to do anymore. I want to work on my marriage but when she doesn't give any sort of response it gets hard to just keep giving.

If you have the cell no, you can go to intelius.com and pay for a report (I think it was like 14.95 when I did it) and it will give you OMs name.

You can then go to intelius.com and do a people search on OM, with his name and state. It is free and in the results will give you name of relatives. I believe I have seen zabasearch here recommended as well.

Yes, I hear ya. When my WH was fogged out, I had very litte tolerance for it. I barely made it through a few weeks of Plan A with contact. I think I have read that men are able to tolerate it a little longer. How long have you been in Plan A?

Once you snoop and you confirm there has been C, you may want to think about getting your Plan B ducks in a row, before she destroys your desire to R...

Hang in there.

I found out about OM in Nov of 2007. She said they were just friends and she always told him that I may find out and she would not be able to call him anymore. She told me they were done. I wish I could have that time back. I believed what she told me and moved on. I continued to ask her about him up until June when I finally called. In the end that is when NC started June 6th.

I have to do some real snooping because everything she is saying now is what she was saying back in Jan through May. I am almost convinced there is someone else, I just haven't found it yet. If I find out there is someone else I don’t know what step I would take next. Hopefully I can figure this out in the next couple of days.

How about a voice activated recorder in the home?

I have seen those suggested here. She was using her work phone last time and that is really the only way for me to monitor that one. I just have to get one.

It's so hard. I never thought I would be lied to over and over by my wife. I still can't believe I'm here.

I think the recorder will give you some good information so that you know where to go from here.

Pre-A my H didn't really lie to me. I was stunned at the amount of lies and manipulation that took place during his EA. I wouldn't have ever guessed he was capable of it.

Nothing, nothing was able to change until NC was in place. Even when he was in WD, his willingness to work on the M was noticeable...that's why I'd be willing to bet she is still in contact.

Plan A can really do a number on you so try to take care of yourself and I would begin reading up on Plan B.

Have you considered calling the Harleys?

I have thought about calling them since everyone on here says they are so good. My only concern is WW won't give it a chance. Her mom was the one who bought us Love Buster's. I read it shortly after we got it but WW hasn't given it a chance. Early on in this mess I had no idea where we were heading and just reading that helped me understand what her feelings were. Then after HNHN and Surviving an Affair, I have been able to take her crap better that I ever thought. It has also given me hope.

I have also used this site to look for a MB counselor in my area. I don't get any results when I put Minnesota in the search. I know the Harley's are from here, I would think there would be some in the area. Maybe someone can help with that.

Posting on these boards does actaully help me confront this in a better mood at night when I get home.

Call them if you can afford it. I have heard they can sometime get thru to the foggy... And if your WW refuses to counsel with them, I would even go ahead and do it on your own.

I would definitely do the recorder thing pronto. I would also go ahead and do research on OM. How do you know for 100% certain that he isn't M?

Hang in there!

Noname2, I heard pretty much the same things from my FWW about a year or so ago, about her feeling empty inside, about not being happy, about trying (though you see no real evidence of this happening), about having to "force herself" to do things, about me "pushing", etc.

I'm pretty sure that there's no OM in the picture, so I think it's something else at work.

Tell me, does she express herself in that way mostly after you bring up any R or M talk? I realised that in my case and I re-examined the way that I was talking about these things with her. What I saw as "discussing", she saw as "lecturing", and "teaching", and it only made her feel worse, not better. So, I backed off of the M-talk, and concentrated more on listening, not talking. In fact, if you find yourself doing more of the talking rather than the listening when communicating with your FWW, that's a good sign that something positive is NOT going on.

How are we now? Well, she's the one now reading the relationship books, something she definitely avoided doing a year ago, including one called "How Can I Forgive You", by Janis Abrahms. I'm still not quite sure how we got to this point, but I think the realization that she was not going to be permanently subjected to lecturing from an unhappy H might have had something to do with it .

Now, I don't want to give the impression that things are all roses between my FWW and I at the moment - but certainly she appears to be more invested in the M than she was a year ago. So I suggest reviewing your actions to see if your FWW's response may just be a reaction to how you are interacting with her.

ManInMotion,

That is exactly when she says those things to me. I don't feel it, but she always says I'm "lecturing her" or makes a comment about my books. I will try and back off on that.

Your message at least gives me some encouragement.

I am trying my best to avoid conflict and be happy.

We met with our MC tonight. This was probably the worst meeting I have had. I wanted to just leave and say screw it but I stayed, it took a lot at times.

WW told me the same stuff she said in the emails. She doesn't feel anything, everything is forced, I want passion, and all the rest. In the end our MC asked us what we wanted to do. I said I won't ever give up on our M. I suggested setting 1 night a week where we have a date, not at home but we leave for at least a few hours and have some one on one time.

WW agreed to do this. She said that she doesn't feel like she can just walk away from this now so she said that she has to give it more time. So in the end I have one committed night away from home. I also brought up again us turning the tv off and talking, having a drink, doing a puzzle just anything to get one on one time. WW agreed to do that although she doesn't think she will have the time. She keeps saying she needs to relax after the girls are in bed.

Anyways I guess I bought myself more time with WW. I won't ever give up.

I have a key logger installed now. So by tomorrow night I should know if there are any emails to OM. I am really scared to look, I just hope for the best here.

Bingo. FWIW, I'd also consider laying off the MC for awhile too, unless she desires to go and indicates as much. Think of how you acted towards her when you were first starting off in your relationship. Wasn't much M and R talk then, particularly of the depressing type, right? And stop quoting from the books too - yup, I used to do that as well!

This does NOT mean you're giving up the fight NN2 - it just means you're shifting to different tactics, that all, as the current ones don't appear to be working that well. And the way to work out the best strategy that will work is to sit back, observe and note what works best with your FWW, and what works best for both of you.



Oh no, NN2, this isn't about avoiding conflict, but successfully navigating your way through it so your FWW isn't left with ill feelings towards you at the end. Hey - I'm still practicing to do so with MY FWW, so I know how difficult it can be .