It's wonderful that your H is willing to ask for help here. It shows that he recognizes that this may be bigger than the two of you can handle alone and he wants it to succeed.

I know I said it before but I just want to remind you that it is completely unfair that the BS has to bear the biggest burden in the beginning, but you CAN do it. You are fighting for your M. You are fighting for your H.

From reading your H's posts, it seems that your frustration about wanting him to "get over it" already is shared. I don't think that people realize that an A is a choice, but it can take on a life of its own. It becomes an addiction. If you look at your H as someone who is fighting to get clean, it may make more sense. He knows it is the right thing to do, he knows it is what he wants to do, but that drug was just sooo gooood.

I don't say that to hurt you (I am a BS myself and know the pain). I think it just helps to understand that he isn't "trying" to dwell on the A...he is just going through withdrawals. The most important part of surviving withdrawals is that he have absolutely NO CONTACT with OW. Encourage him to change every contact information that he has...make it hard for her to reach him.

And again, while it seems unfair to have to encourage HIM, I would suggest that he come here when he is feeling particularly vulnerable. If he is sincere, the people here will help him get through it too.

Have you worked on transparency? Something my H did for me was to tell me about ALL passwords and accounts and give me access to EVERYTHING he did. He actually did this before he told me about the A. He said that this was his way of keeping himself honest (knowing that I could check anytime) while he got up the courage to talk with me. Your H needs to realize that the trust is broken and it can only be re-established by sharing EVERYTHING with you. It may help you BOTH with peace of mind...knowing that it is all out in the open.

Keep going. You're doing great.

HTM

hi princessmeggy ~

yes, i feel fortunate that my husband let me in on his little secret of this website. it took him a long time to let me know what it was as he was afraid i would take some of the advice given here, one being to make the A very public...and naturally he didn't want that...

on the other hand..i told my H i was proud of him for registering on this site last night.... i told him it makes me feel that he truly wants our marriage to work and that he is reaching out for help ~ ~ and i thank all of you ahead of time who are going to be part of helping him make it to the other side.

i also told him i hoped the site is gentle enough on him to help him through his 'fog' but tough enough on him to help make the beatings worth wanting to recover our marriage. thank you.

The load is great but i keep telling myself it will be worth it when we get to the other side. i have had and still do sometimes have the same feelings about his withdrawal that you did..how dare he!! but, yes, i remind myself it is an addiction (of which i learned from this website)

i will try to keep my expectations down....take one day at a time and thank God for any baby step we take.

i will continue posting and reading! :-)
thanks again.

lousygolfer....i have taken my beating from you on meeting my H's EN....i fell short.

i'll admit i got caugt up in the busyness of life...being the wife and mom, working part time in the office and pretty much full time at home that i lost sight of what was truly important ~ my huband!

my work was probably the biggest thing that i let get in the way....i told myself 'we need the money'.... i have since changed my working hours here at home... i do not work here at home past 5:00 now... i can now see how much time i put into my work instead of my family....i neglected them all. :-(

since i made the change in my work schedule i don't miss all the long hours i put in to try to get caught up.... i would much rather spend time with my husband and family....which is what i should have been doing in the first place.... my bad...

as far as a few things to do NOW....i do all of the stuff you mentioned and then some. he seems to be a little bit more receptive. :-)

i mentioned in a different post that i was going to move his clothes into our closet and then also clean out the garage so he could get his truck in. i did both and he was especially surprised at the garage (it was a lot of work). he hasn't said anything about moving his clothes but i think he's beginning to realize that i meant what i said about him being my #1 priority. i want him to be comfortable and have everything he wants/needs.

what he likes about feeling somewhat like the 'guest' is how i have treated him....in a nutshell....i totally dote on him. even though i used to do this, he's afraid it's gonna change (again). i told him i have learned the difference now and that he is my first priority.....and will continue to keep him first place in my life (well, God has to be first, but you know what i mean...).

i know what's important now.... how could i have let that slip... ug.

thanks for your input even if it pierces my heart a little....

How are you doing? Haven't heard from you in a few days.

HTM

hi hicktownmommy ~

thanks for checking on me. i'm ok. we had a good weekend. it was our anniversary yesterday.....23 years.

i actually was on this morning and wrote a post but when i was revieweing it...it was like a novel - - so i deleted it. lol i'll try to condense in this one.

first i want to say i'm grateful for this website and those of you who are reaching out to both my H and me.... it is helping. i have noticed changes in my H since he has posted.

i know this is a difficult time for him (withdrawals and all).....and for me too, but we are taking baby steps together. admittedly my baby steps tend to want to be bigger than he's ready to take yet, but none the less, i am holding on and helping him through this process as best i can (i feel i'm bumping around a lot trying to guess and figure things out). that's where you guys come in with great advice and encouragement.

on saturday we went to a movie and the mall. good time together....just being together.

yesterday i went to church...my H nor my kids go with me anymore....it's important to me...used to be to my H....will be again some day i hope.

my husband got me a card and a cd for our anniversary. (i only got him a card....bummer) i wasn't sure what to do.....it's not really a 'happy' anniversary now is it....course it is cause we're still together. i'm trying to start looking at all the positives. it's too easy to get bogged down with the negative....that comes often enough on it's own. i should have thought a little bit more about what positives we have right now and focus on that...

anyway, the card was nice (i cried)...and the cd (love songs). he cried too. i couldn't help but wonder - - was he crying cause of the mess we're in, or because he really does love me.... or was he crying cause he's still 'letting go' and this was one more step in doing so... he signed the card 'love'.... he's only written those words three times in the past few months (on cards) and i can't even remember the last time i actually heard those words. it's very hard for me to hear him tell the kids and extended family that he loves them but can't say it to me.... is there still resentment or am i just expecting too much too soon.... (and i in no way shape or form would not want him to love everyone else...i'm just feeling left out).

we went to dinner yesterday....it was good and mostly good conversation. the fact that we are even communicating is good and i'm thankful for that.

without writing another novel like i did this morning....the long and the short of the day is that he put his wedding ring back on! ......he knows that's something i have always wanted him to do (even before this)......wear his ring. so, needless to say that made me happy. i didn't even notice he had put it on until we were in wal mart last night....i gasped i was so shocked. (but i don't think he put it on until we went to wal mart....believe me, i'm very observant these days.)

we moved some of the furniture from the apartment back home. there's really not much left to get but a few things. my H is going to talk to the landlord about getting out of his lease sooner....otherwise, we have an apartment until october. ug...

we went to the apartment originally for his house key i had made for him a few months ago (in case the kids forgot theirs when they were with him and i wasn't home). anyway, he put the key on his key ring.

we were intimate while there but it was different....i can't explain it....i don't feel like the wife he's making love to yet..... ug. these days though, i'll take what i can get... lol (is that funny really.....probably not)

he also programmed his truck with the garage door opener so now he can open it himself. i'm thinking one of these days he's gonna actually park in it.... oh well, at least the garage is clean.....

well, today my H seems pretty down.... ug. yesterday we talked about the whole fake it till you make it thing.... seeing him today like he is makes me think he was fakin' it yesterday..... i know he's trying. i'm just afraid he's gonna get ahead of himself and do something he doesn't really want to do and then it flop.....like he could leave.... how long will my lack of trust and feeling unsafe last...... will it ever go away? i pray it does!

i've been exercising...... twice in the last three days. i've put on 10 lbs. in the last two months (i lost 35 total). i know it's important to look good for my husband... so, i need to continue to fit that in my schedule. i don't need his eyes venturing off in a different direction that's for sure...... i need to keep his attention.

so much pressure! to be thin and look good all the time....to meet his needs....to hold myself together.....continue to work and take care of my family...... i'm tired...actually i'm exhausted....

my H actually wants me to quit my job though (the office part anyway). i finally have come to the decision that it's ok.... even though i love my job, my boss and the others that i work with....it's not worth losing my family over. i do dread giving my notice. i told my husband i don't want to give just a two week notice though. he said october'ish or maybe after the first of the year... i'm thinking with losing the house, facing the credit counsel or bankruptcy that 'we need the money'.... but, i'm not going to fall into that trap again.... i'd much rather be at home so i can devote my time and energy into taking care of my man!! (and my kids....and myself for cryin out loud). so we'll see what happens. i really think he was surprised that i said 'ok'... that i would actually quit my job. he knows how much i like it and i've always made excuses for not quitting before. i was missing the 'hint' he was giving me that he really wanted me at home... and i'm certainly realizing that i was being disrespectful to what my husband's desire was....for me to be home more...

well, even though this is a long post, you can trust that it's short compared to what i had typed this morning.....it was twice as long for sure.... lol i was at home today and didn't have a lot of conversation so i didn't get to use up my quota on words for today..... lol

2b,

What are your H's top five ENs? Have you done the EN Questionnaire? I'm curious just because if you haven't been told, you may guess wrong.

It sounds like your H values having you at home. That's great that you are willing to meet that need for him. Domestic Support is my H's #1 EN.

Congrats on 35 pounds! That's an achievement. Don't get too down on the gain...if you lost it before, you can lose it again. I am a WW (WeightWatchers) member and find that works well for me. One of my H's top ENs is Physical Attractiveness too...although the definition is debatable because he says that I can pull it off best when I feel good about myself, not necessarily when I weigh less.

I find some of meeting my Hs ENs is like dating again. It's kind of fun to anticipate his arrival at home...to get dolled up before he gets there and make sure everything looks just so. Yes, it's work, but it's good work. (And this is coming from a self-proclaimed feminist!)

You're doing great. Sounds like H is getting things in place too!

HTM

hey everyone ~
just wanted to let you know that my husband submitted for an appt with Dr. Harley last night. i received an email today and it looks like we will have our first session possibly on thursday of this week.

i feel we are on our way to recovery. my H seems to really be soaking up what you guys are telling him and seemingly wants to do the right thing in every aspect even if it takes him a while to come to grips with whatever the next step is he needs to take.

i will keep on taking care of my man and just take one day at a time. last night he seemed to be in a low mood again but instead of withdrawing from him as he was from me......i went and sat with him and was just close to him (not too close though)... he went to the gym and came back in a better mood..... i just can't wait till he's through this.....

anyway, just wanted to let you know we're getting an appt with Dr. Harley.

Excellent! It really sounds like your H is figuring things out. And it sounds like you are working on the parts that you need to pick up as well.

I am confident you two can make it through this.

HTM

i am beginning to believe that we really will too....

thank you everyone!

2b1

I am by no means here to give you advise as I am only a month ahead interms of timeframe on NC, but I will share with you my own experince if that will help you in anyway.

My Wh's HC was also via phoce call and then followed up with a letter frim him to her. I knew of the phoce call did not know about the letter until a month ago. Since then I have got a copy of the letter from him and it is by no means the standard I love my wife so goodbye letter. However since since the intent of the phone call and the message in the letter was good bye and no contcat and so much time had passed in between, I for one decided that there was no need for a follow up NC letter in my case as a month or so later as it really only meant breaking the NC as lareday establised on late May (I saw the letter 7/14)

Now NC can break one of 2 ways
1)If OW does recontact WH then I will insit on the response being simply the standard NC letter as advocaed by MB . Nothing more nothing less.

2) If DH does recontact OW then I will simply move to plan B while I contemplate the need and feasibilty and impact of Plan D if I am unable or unwillign to restart the recovery clock again.

I see on your WH's thread that he is struggling with the content of this new NC letter the purpose of which is simply to help close the open wound for you. I figured I would post my stich to let you know that inspite of not having a tradition NC letter 3 months after D day I am quite a peace with it and so you can and will get there too.

I also saw my H go thru seve pangs of withdrwal with knots and further pain in my stomach and there were and are days where I wanted to throw in the towel because its too hard. I will say this now that I can see my H lifing out of the "fog" I feel like he might be able to take the right steps to better us and am more positive about the path we will take from here on. So hang in there, do things to find happiness and strenght for yourself and wait out the storm. The calm will follow, listen to the pople who have been thru the storm and out and trust them when they say there is light at the other end. That in of itself is the definition of faith. Belief in the absence of proof.
So have faith that this process works and it can and will work for you too.

hey there WMF ~

thanks for your comments. i'm always open to hearing what someone else has gone through especially when the circumstances are close to what i'm going through. i'm the type that learns from other's mistakes.... wish i had on this one for sure.... we dont' know anyone that has gone through this though... actually, there is a couple that we had met long ago (but didn't really associate with them) that he really disrespected my H when he found out what he did (so he said in a phone call later)..... well, guess what.....he did the same thing!!!! when my husband called him to see if he wanted to get together, the first thing this other guy did was apologize to my H because he said he really had no respect for him and then he turned around and did the same thing....and it was only months after us... they're trying to help each other and my H has referred him to this site as well... he's not very computer savy though..

anyway, i appreciate your comments about the NC letter. i am waiting for my H to begin fighting for me again too instead of 'i'll do it cause it's the right thing to do'...well, that's not choosing me first is it..... i think he's coming into his own though and beginning to actually realize he holds a big key to us gaining a foothold on our recovery process. (i do too, i'm not undermining my part in this at all)

yes, this whole process is difficult and there are times when i just don't know how much longer i can continue (although i don't think i've ever felt like just kicking his cute butt out for good!)... i just want him to get over it already.... i'm learning it's part of the process and it does take time. so, i do not take one day for granted (especially the good ones). i assured him the other evening again that i was right by his side and that i would NOT throw in the towel. we have so much invested in each other and our kids and i'm not willing to just give it all up..... i'm fighting all the way...

we had the reba show on and the song that plays is called 'i'm a survivor'..... i walked over to my H and kissed his forehead (i was behind him) and told him he was a survivor too......he will get through this......we will get through this...

i do have one question about sending the letter though..... did your husband make the phone call to establish the NC or did the OW? in our case, the OW made the call and i'm not sure we need to (at this time) or should send the letter at this point. BUT, i told my H if contact ever was made that that's when the letter needed to be sent for sure.....and that i would mail it... not sure what good that would do really if they establish the contact again...he could very well tell her he just wrote it to appease me, etc... although i do not think for a second that that's what he's doing though.

i've actually asked my H what he plans on saying to OW if she did ever contact him again.... he has always said he doesn't know. he 'hopes' he will be able to tell her to not contact him again but he's not sure 'at this point'. he's beginning to realize the importance of NC ever again... i'm hoping and praying #1 that contact is never made again, but if it ever happens, that my H will be far enough through his withdrawal (or maybe completely....that would be nice) so he is of a much clearer mind about things and that he would have the courage to tell her not to contact him anymore.

at the same time, i am happy to know that it is possible to have a peace about it. and the more i see him 'letting everything go,' the easier it is for me to forget about it too... or at least shove it to the back of my brain.

we have a confirmed phone appt with jennifer chalmers from this site for thursday evening. i have no idea what to expect, but i know it can't hurt from what i've read on this site.....everyone highly recommends it and says it's so worth it. i want to be giving that same advice to someone else some day and be able to say the same thing to them.....'it is so worth it'

i will continue to look for the light at the end of the tunnel.... i know we're inching closer each day.....thanks to this website and all the great people here!! wish we all were on a different site.....well, not a different site, just a different thread topic for sure.

thanks again.....

As my altogether too redneck husband would say, "I can see the light at the end of the tunnel...and it's not a train!"

Just had to share. It popped into my head.

HTM

LOL i do think the train is behind us and we're both gonna work to keep it behind us..

Well in my case WH and OW did not think I would find out so the plan was for him to "not tell me" and continue to tell me that he is unhappy in our relationship be distant and unhappy enough till I said ok we are both sad lets move on and get a D so then he would start a new life with OW. I however suspected an A due t his change in behaviour and confronted him directly and he did not deny it. I dont need to describe the pain of D day to you. I thought it was a ONS not a full blow he was ready to leave me for OW affair. So pain pain pain. In spite of the pain I knew I loved my H and I wanted to continue our relationship ( complete opposite reation of what I had thought I would have had in my previous chillike fantasies of what i would do if some one ever cheated on me).
According to my H he was surprised at the fact that I still wanted him and our R cause he had given up hope that I cared. Anyway As much as I wanted to be in a R with him I was very adament about him choosing either me or her then and there. I Cried and talked for 2 days and nights and at the end of it he said he needed to call OW and tell her that he was going to give his marriage a chance . We had agrred that we would give our R 3 months and then see where we are and neither of us would make a rash decision about D until 3 months.
Now I left the house to go to a yoga class for 2 hrs while DH called and closed the door with OW.
Here is my version of what their conversation went like( partly my fantasy and partly from whet he told me)
1) Shock and surprise that I found out and how their plan of keeping me "unharmed" from pain did not work.
2) Dh telling her that he is not sure what to do and he wants to give his marrige a chance because he never expected that I would still want it.
3) DH trying to ease her pain by telling her how special she is and how lucky he was that she was there to help him when he was felling so lonely and low .
4) DH apologizing to her for causing her pain in now leaving her stranded while he figures this all out.
5) OW angry and sad for him having led her on into thinking that they were going to have a life tohgether and thst he would fight hard to resist "if I were to change" and try to meet his ENs.
6) DH tellign OW about the 3 months letting her know that may be there is hope after 3 months of checking out to see where "I and him" end up.
7) OW tellign WH how wonderful he is to selflessly give up his new soulmate for his horrible wife and how wonderful and great he is to commit to staying for me.
8) they both crying an dconsoling each other that they find themselves in the situation of being unable to be with each other , in another life under differenet circumstances.

After 2 hrs of phone call I thought that was the end or begining of NC. 2 months later I find out that that was not all.

Day after phone call OW emailed WH a somewhat angry and hurt email saying that he did not give her enough time to spill her feelings. How he prioritized me over her and she was upset that he talked to me for 2 days and only gave her 2 hrs to tell her know that she was out. She was saddened that he chose me over her and that he BETRAYED her emotions by promising to be strong and resist me at all costs and did not keep his word to her. Yet she wished him well and thought the time they spent together was special etc etc etc.


In response DH mailed her a letter (along with some personal effects that he had to send back) saying basically he is sorry that he caused her pain. He really felt for her and he felt real pain at their parting but he really wants to give his M a chance but he cant do that with her in the picture. He does not know where he will end up in 3 months but does not want her to wait nor does he expect that she will want to now that he has caused her pain by choosing me right now. He needs to figure things out for himself before he can comit to any relationship.


Like I said before neither are standard healthy MB type goodbyes that would be would healing for me persay. I found the MB site probbably in mid June and initially I was set on getting a NC letter typed up after phone call to be sent out. Then when I discovered the existance of email and letter wanted to copy from H which I eventually got. In additiona of the letter, WH has promised to let me know if theer is any re-initialtion of contcat and I Choose to "trust" him for now.

So now I am at the 3 month marks and it has not escaped me that she might contact him, althought from her email she seemed pretty hurt so she might be lookign for her to contact him and ease her pain and each day that NC remains established I feel more and more positive about our chances.

I dont think it would matter if he made the phone call or she did , All that matters is that I belive that my DH is honoring his own NC and I dont need a stanadrd NC letter from him to start it or belive in its existance.
He is making sure that I understand he is in NC and I am keeping my eyes to the ground to make sure I dont see nay signs of contcat. So the peace for me comes not from the catalyst or how NC was established but rather hat it has been and it continues to be in place. I question him often and look for what ever I need to be satisfied that NC exisits and the point I wanted to get across to you is that even though the MB NC letter is a great way to get NC established, the part that is helful to the recovery process is the establisment and continuation of NC and not the act of the actual printout of that standard letter.

If you think the only way your H can show you that he choses you over OW is by typing this letter then by all means proceed I am not arguing with the power of the letter. In my case brutal honesty and converstaion with my H , the sharing of the actual email and letter (I know it was hard for H to give me those) did the trick in terms of convincing me that H is commited to giving me what ever I needed to close the wound and slowly but surely I realised that I no longer needed an addition NC letter.

2B1,

I'm glad to hear you have an appointment with Jennifer tomorrow. She is wonderful.

The NC letter is a MUST!
Don't accept crumbs from your H in this recovery. You deserve much more.

We too have been working with jennifer for the last 3 weeks and in my case the 1st call call was very dissapointing to me. I am not sure what I expected , I guess I thought it would be more of a IC type in terms of your specific stich and so when I ended the 1st call I did not feel any better than I did before the call. I was lookign for magic bullet of recovery and it was not.
It took a week or so for it to sink in was what she offering me was good solid advise on how to better my relationship and not so much immediate high dosage to chemo to help with the pain of the A.
So in my case for relief of pain of A and advise of what works and what does not I post here on my thead read and re-read what schoobus and jlr and others post to me. Read other theads and learn from others experiences . As far as Jennifer I get great advise and steps and techniques on how to fix our R, but it took me a week after the 1st session to see its benefits for the long run.
May be your case will be different but that was I my experience. We have our next session for Friday and I plan on continuning until I feel that our R has enough tools to stand on its own. Expect her to give you good info, dont expect it to sink in on Thursday or fix anything that day. What I have realised is that the sessions with her are information gathering and unless we take the time and actions to implement them nothing is changed by simply talking to her. So Good luck with your call all and I am confident that she will point you in the beast path to help you and your M.
You are taking all the right steps to help your self and that in of itself is a great measure of your progress.

Hi Wanna.....and others :-)

i'm very behind in my postings. i have read your replies but it's hard for me to keep everything in balance to be able to 'get it all done'...... i seem to be overwhelmed with the amount of time needed to put into my husband/marriage (i knew it would be work), my job, my kids, the house, and everything.... life goes on doesn't it. there aren't enough hours in my days. as it is we don't get to bed much before midnight and my alarm goes off before 6 a.m. but i'm too tired to drag out!.... ug.

our kids will all be back in school over the next three weeks. maybe then there will be some 'normalcy' back in my schedule.... i know i'm not the only that works full time, has a husband they're trying to hang on to, a family to take care of among other things and yet are managing just fine...... any secrets for making it all work without feeling or looking exhausted all the time???

anyway, we had our first session last night with Jennifer. I wasn’t sure what to expect (although took the ‘warning’ of not expecting too much). It actually was good. Overwhelming, but good. Much homework but it’s needed to get to where we want to be. Jennifer is good.

She recommended not reading SSA at this time but suggested Fall in Love, Stay in Love by Harley (of course) ☺ She said SSA is a ‘downer’ book and brings back all the memories and pain…..and boy did it. maybe I need to hear (or read) about it to certainly learn and pound it into my head yet again on how to prevent it from EVER happening again.

The work email and phone was addressed in our session. She gave some suggestions on how to follow through with getting them changed. I’m hoping my H will do this. We meet with Jennifer again on Monday so we’ll see if he does anything before then. wouldn’t that be nice. These two things are really the last two things that make me really uneasy. But I am aware that even if/when these are changed that if you want to get a hold of someone bad enough you can find a way….i’m hoping it will never happen. In the case contact is made again, the NC letter will be sent (should I search to find her address now or should I wait for IF it ever occurs….

Speaking of the NC letter, my H gave me one the other evening. It was good and to the point for sure. I think I would be offended if I got the letter….and that’s what it’s supposed to do I guess. It got the point across…..he will not contact her ever again and she is not to contact him ever again. He said it was a selfish and horrendous act on his part and that I (nor his kids) deserved the pain he has caused any of us and wants to work to be the husband/father we/they deserve. (that’s the gist of it anyway).

One of the comments that Jennifer made was that she would be coaching us to help us fall back in love with each other. While we both agreed, my H agreed by shaking his head up and down as if he were saying most definitely he needs that. While I am happy he wants to fall in love with me again, the reality is I know he doesn’t love me as his wife - - he has told me that before.. ☹ that makes me very sad to think that he thinks I’m such a bad person that he just can’t bring himself to love me again….. I have high hopes for our coaching with Jennifer though.

This type counseling is what we needed long ago, but really, my H may not have been at the point of wanting this type of coaching even a few months ago…. He’s really just recently taken the turn of wanting to make his marriage work. AND, he did tell me in an email the other day that he did not want to throw in the towel… I smiled.

Well, a really long post is the result of not staying on top of the posting that needs to be done. Sorry. Again, I am at least reading, but can’t always take the time at that moment to reply too…. I don’t like to just write off the top of my head…

Thanks to all of you who have recommended MB counseling….i think it’s gonna really help us get on our way. ☺ we’re gonna get ideas/suggestions for spending our 15 hours a week together in our next session (Monday) That will be good.

I really should be journaling through this so as to look back and see the progress…. It’s gonna be good….i am confident of that. ☺

Sorry again for the long post.

just wondering if anyone has ever been able to bill their insurance for the counseling/coaching they've received.... ??

I see you doing and feeling exatly what I do and I just feel the need to point out please dont make the same mistake I did and make it harder for youself. You are looking for a quick fix much like I am. Do not set any expecations in your mind of when H is required to finsh the "homework". I did that early on, very dissapointed. Just focus on doing your part and let him focus on his. If he does not get it does by the next time you speak to Jennifer , let her be the one he is accountable to, not you, eliminating a LB at your end.


Again parallel to my scenrio, I lived thru the "pain " of realising that my H indicated that he needed to fall in love with me again. But as the days went on I beagn to realise that its OK. He may think he feels that way but he is in a "FOG" and being pulled in so many different emotional directions. If I take a deep look inside myself I can see there are many times I want to throw in the towel. Could be read as lack of love for my H could be read as wanting to take the easy way out cause this way is hard.
Dont allow him to define for you if you are good or bad person. Do you feel you are dong all that you can to be a "good mate" so that ANYONE would want to be with you ( PLan A ?). I bet you are. So dont use his "unhealed painfilled widthrwal fog state" to gauge anything about the status of your relationship.
Think Roller coaster, that what I feel like I am on. Sometimes I am insanely happy at the staus of our R and other times I am so sad. Its recking havoc on my physical body.
One of the vets posted here on my thread ( Schoolbus, read all her posrs she is pretty insightful)told me to stop gauging the staus because it changes by the hour, until considerable time has passed and then the needle will settle. So realize that when he nodded his head it just means at that moment his needle is on the low side, but keep your eyes open for his needle pointing to the other extreme mometarity and be prepared for the roller coaster. There is a lot of ups and down to follow, but with Jennifers help and hard work on our ends I am starting to believe that we can and will be able to dig ourselves out of this hole.

wow wannamoveforeward,

what insight! it's amazing how others can see what the underlying message is in a person's thoughts... guess when you're the one in the middle of the mess, you don't see or recognize it......but it's when yu're removed from the situation that it is easier to see.... i didn't think i was expecting much but i guess i am....at least very hopeful that things will change soon.... it's overwhelming to stop and think that we could go on like this for yet a long while still..... gotta stop that. like you said, just worry about myself, not my H, and let jennifer be the one he's accountable to.

got caught up in feeling dejected this morning when i was trying to get something started with my H before he left for work (he was in the shower).....for a very brief second he was gonna allow himself to get excited but then he quickly reminded me that i have a lot of homework to get done today as tomorrow i have to drive my daughter back to college and will be gone all day..... ug. BUT, i put my first session with jennifer into practice and started going over my 'why' list in my mind as to why i continue this road with my H..... it does help...

i am also feeling down today.....not sure why. it didn't help that when i went to make our bed this morning after my H went to work, i noticed his wedding ring laying on the table next to the bed where he lays his wallet and keys..... :-( i must say, i began wondering who he was going to be working with today that he didn't want to see his ring on his finger.... i don't think anyone new, but the doubt is there unfortunately.

i should have come here FIRST (and probably only) but unfortunately i emailed him and asked him if he 'forgot' his ring on purpose today..... he said he forgot until he got to work... why do i believe him when it's laying there with his other stuff that he has to pick up when he's leaving..... i keep reciting those 'why's' in my mind....

well, i DO have much homework for today so i better get started. EN questionnaire, a list of 'i'd love it if' for my top 5 needs, read in Fall in Love, Stay in Love, and probably most importantly get myself in a different frame of mind before my husband gets home from work this afternoon....

thanks again for the insight. i'll keep digging us out as well...will be glad when he can start shoveling too.... (and i know he's making progress....just not as fast as i'd like him to).

i'll check back later...