O.k. I guess I am just a love buster. In my defense though, I can't really go ahead with the "plan" when things are just hitting me right and left. He drank all weekend. I know he talks to her a lot when he's drinking. There were a couple little things where I just can not suck it up and be the loving wife. I'm not good at playing games. I have never been the kindof chick who could do that, and apparently still aren't. It is very hard for me to not take what I am given at face value and deal with the facts. Sports started, so of course...same team. I mostly stayed with my younger DS. I did want to see who my older DS had on his team. I walked down there...standing there talking to a friend, she is in my view and my kids are dancing and playing around everywhere(I didn't take them there, they wanted to be with dad) Her older S was there also and while I'm standing there my husband starts throwing the football with him. You know, My very logical self didn't even get how disrespectful this was until I was getting in bed. I just can't do this anymore. He said what's wrong, and I couldn't hold it in. Again, it's all [censored]...not me screaming and crying and yelling, but I do have to defend myself. I told him not only did I not like that, but how did that look to her. She knows I know, and there he is right in front of me having a catch with her son. Anyway one thing to another, I went into another room, he started packing a bag cause he said he can't sleep in our bed alone. We went back and forth a little. I told him I can't keep begging him to walk away. I asked if they were truly just friends, or how long had it been since they kissed or more...he said yes just friends, and not more and he can't even remember the last time. We can barely make ends meet right now due to the lack of attention our finances have gotten from him, so I told him we needed to just sleep. He said if he had somewhere to go he would go. Then he said today he will just change his phone, and bank account so I can't be checking up on him. He would find somewhere to go. He can't take it anymore...(HE CAN"T) I just said you know what, in 10 months maybe one time, one day you could have lied to me and said you know, I want this marriage and this family so much that I am willing to say goodbye to someone I feel very strongly for...just one day's peace would have been nice. I said that there is such a thing as an emotional affair that he talks to me less and less...I said when you get off the phone, or stop texting do you say "I love you" to each other? He said not always...(which means yes, of course.) We have never had a problem with intamacy...but I told him, I don't think he has touched me in a week (besides hugs) he said that's cause he initiated the last few times and he didn't want to push it, I told him that it is very hard for me to do anything when I don't know what the last conversation was about of whether he had kissed her that night...the what if's I just think we are both done with this, we can't live with this pain or games any longer.

I feel so bad for you. I know how it feels to "not know". I can't believe they could involve the kids innocence so easily. Above ele they should always be able to look back on their childhoos and not feel used or put in the middle. I know they prob do not see it now and I hod your WH cuts it out before they can grow up and look back and attribute meaning to these scenes.

You are not the other woman. This is your house and your family and your bed and your phones. No matter what know that you were the one there for all of these things.

Sink.

Can't you get on board with the MB plans?

Why must you pursue relationship talks? You cannot believe one single answer he gave you -- so why bother? You cannot talk sense into him, he's not capable of absorbing logic now.

He is an ADDICT. And he will continue to be one until YOU make some changes.

Stop putting all the responsibility for action on HIM. If you truly can't take it anymore, pack his stuff, call his parents and send him on his way.

Downsize your life. Houses and cars are just STUFF. Get rid of them if you can't afford them.

yes, I am going to start taking on a full time load now. I will do what I can. I think I am going to get my own cell phone today, and instead of getting the cool one I want, I will get my same phone on my own scaled back plan. Before we were always good...after two years of his fog, we are finally experiencing debt...not good. I am going to take action, because I cant do it any longer. Thank you for all your help. I always feel bad for him and want to spare him more pain, but I can't just be here waiting any longer while he continues this relationship.

you know what I take all your advice to heart, cause I know you are just trying to help, which you don't have to do. I appreciate every minute. It was so unbeleivably hard to be on the same feild looking at this woman and knowing that she and my husband love each other. I never was a jealous person before, cause I never thought I had to worry. Now that I do, I'm not sure I can ever get past this betrayal and move forward with him or anyone else.

O.k. somebody based on what happened last night, how do I respond to this. He called...just wanted to explain that she was just going to drop off her son, and he told her it wouldn't be a good idea to leave him. and that when he played with him just for five minutes that he just felt bad for him cause he had stood there all night just holding his footbal. I have so much to say to that, but I just said nothing...how do I respond to that. (obviously if they weren't taklking about their plan of action for the night, we wouldn't be here.

Do you want this marriage saved or do you want it all just to be over? What do YOU want?

Maybe I don't know anymore. I know that I wanted to be married to him forever and wanted to have a whole family. It just seems like no matter what route I take nothing is changing. This might be my last chance. I know there had to be things wrong for him to go out looking for something he wasn't getting, but aside from being busy with four children, I'm not sure what I wasn't giving. Anyone who knows me thinks I do too much for everybody...maybe that's my curse. I always tried to do my best to be the best I could be. It wasn't good enough for him.

Sink,

I think that you need to go to Plan B. Your H is NOT participating in your recovery. He is still lying to you. He is still in contact with OW. He is blatantly disrespectful to you and your children.

You do not deserve this.

HE is choosing to make your recovery impossible. He is a cake-eater and will be until you stand up and tell him that you will not allow your M to look like this. You are not giving him an ultimatum...you are telling him that you respect yourself and that if he won't protect you and your children, YOU will.

I get that you love him...but he is PLAYING you. He is an adult. He can figure out where to go if you ask him to leave. There needs to be a breaking point for this and I don't think that he will be the one to do it.

Ask him to end ALL contact with OW (including sons). EXPOSE to everyone. Tell him that if he is not willing to do this, then he needs to leave until he can commit to it. If you make it clear that you are not joking...I think he will leave.

At that point, HE can start working on the M and the recovery. If he doesn't do that, then you have your answer. But the way that you are living is not only unhealthy for you and your children, it is unfair to you and your children.

HTM

I feel like it's time. He does know I am a good woman. He has a warm and inviting home. Great boys. I know he knows all this, but he can't let her go. His BF told me to change the locks 4 months ago. I should have listened then. I would have saved myself a lot of pain, and maybe it would have given him a good dose of reality before now.

I cannot imagine how hard this is to do. Make sure that you have your family and friends to support you through this. But make sure that you do this for yourself and your children.

Your H has a choice to make. He needs to make it. It is unfair for him to expect you to live like this. I am sure that he can see what a good woman he has...what a good home he has. But right now there is not enough incentive for him to give OW up.

It is part of nature that there has to be a huge IMBALANCE for change to occur and REBALANCE. You are in the inbalance phase...tip the scale so that your H sees that it cannot stay this way. He needs to realize that he cannot have BOTH.

We will be here to support you.

HTM

Unfortunately you know only too well how difficult all this can be. I have read a lot of your stuff, and I feel for what you are going through also. By the way, I'm glad all these men that are now on their 2nd marriages are so happy and satisfied now that they have lowered themselves to getting off in a room with other guys...nice. Your husband should be thankful that you are saving him from a life of hanging out with a bunch of losers.

Yesterday we were im back and forth and I told him I had tried to save our family and had failed...that we need to get on with our lives. He had said the night before he would get his own banking and cell account. He said the day after he found out I got the record he had the guy fired that released it to me and got the account protected. So when we he was asking if I was saying we were through, I reminded him he had said those things. He came back kind of sh**ty saying he was under the impression he had his own bank account and cell. I waited about a half hour and responded back that he could cancel mine in a couple of days after my new one arrives. (I already have my own bank account) ...no money, but I have my own account. I have a credit card in only my name also...low limit, but I have it. (2)I told him I did that because in a marriage both should have access and that as an adult I certainly deserve to have access to my own accounts. I explained that he needed to not treat me that way and that aside from the last 6 years (out of 20) Our salaries had been pretty evenly matched and I had worked just as hard for everything we had. He agreed and backed off.

At night I din't go to the upper field so out of site out of mind. The little boys stayed with me. At night we just hugged and went to sleep. I'm not jumping right back into the same thing though, so I have some things to figure out.

Have you exposed this affair to EVERYONE that can make a difference?

Does OW's husband (x-husband) know?

Do your children know? They deserve to know the TRUTH about why daddy is leaving.

Write your Plan B letter. Work out all of the details on how he is to communicate to you. Remember, the idea is to be completely dark to him -- no visual sighting, no communication.

You need to send him the message that you are not going to be "friends" later. You are not going to be amicable. You are not going to be co-parents.

He wants out? He gets it the HARD WAY.

And, you better see about protecting yourself financially.

I find it amazing that you are arguing with him about his secrecy instead of about his AFFAIR. Arguing about your violating his secrecy is silly. Can't you stop yourself from participating in this nonsense?

Seriously, he wants to verbally beat you about checking up on him? After what he's done? And you go right along with him.

You really need to get your footing. Confidence.
If you're going to constantly battle with him, at least battle about the right things. The important things.

I can really see his fog now...and I can see mine really well. I wish you were here in person just to slap me right in the face. I realize how stupid my little lines in the sand are. It doesn't matter. He is still talking to her...that is ALL that matters. He still needs her. I will read up on plan B letters more today.

"It doesn't matter. He is still talking to her...that is ALL that matters."

THAT is what you need to focus on. He is NOT in recovery with you. YOU are fighting for your family and he is still on the side of the enemy. Don't get into ANY MORE discussions with him unless it involves his NC with OW.

I think that you need to get your Plan B in place quickly and do it. Until then, become a broken record..."I love you and want our M to recover, but I cannot discuss this with you until you have agreed to No Contact with OW."

Regardless of what garbage he wants to talk about...go back to the quote above. IT DOESN'T MATTER. HE IS STILL TALKING TO HER. Don't let him bait you into a debate. He has become great at manipulation and if you give him the chance, he will do it again.

HTM

Maybe you can give yourself a deadline...get your letter done and Plan B started by Sunday morning. That gives H Sunday to leave and you don't have to spend the entire weekend under the gun.

Do you have any family near you to support you with this?

BTW...I don't think my H sees it the same way we do (that I'm SAVING him from the losers), but I have to say I agree with you on that one. I took a lot of crap for a LONG time. I know where you are at. 20/20 hindsight you know. Don't let your H hurt you like this anymore. There is life beyond it.

HTM

Wow -- Hick that is GREAT advice.

When he tries to bait you into an argument, stick to that mantra.


over and over and over.

In the meantime, finish Plan A -- by exposure.

Exposure is a tremendous tool for you because he fears it.
He doesn't want to look "bad" to his boys (well duh then don't have an affair!)

He wants you to share the blame and make this easy for him -- and so far you have.

Time to stop. Make this HARD for him, it SHOULD be hard to tear apart your family.

I'm practicing..over and over...it's good. It is all that matters.

You can do this. The trick is NOT to engage him in conversation. Think of him as a drug...you cannot stop the effects of the drug once you start using. You need to REFUSE to let the drug into your body. You KNOW it's not good for you. Your rational mind (off drugs) has showed you that you need to stay away from this drug.

DO NOT LET HIM ENGAGE YOU...HE WILL GASLIGHT YOU BACK INTO THE RELATIONSHIP.

If you don't know what gaslighting is...read up on it. It is enlightening!

HTM

Here's a couple links for you about gaslighting.

http://www.enotalone.com/article/16906.html

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gaslighting

http://www.associatedcontent.com/article/163293/gaslighting_a_little_known_form_of.html

Read about it. I know that as I recognized the things my H had been doing (knowingly or not) I found the strength to keep him from EVER doing that to me again!

HTM