Not,

I think you are right that sometimes the truth hurts. I know that if I were reading your thread as your W, I would be hurt by the comments you made about not being able to say "I love you." It's not that your comments were disrespectful, attacking, or any other LB...just that they hurt because as a BS, I know that I ACHE for my H to love me. That was where my concern came from because I know that while you want to be completely honest, you also don't want to cause any undue harm.

I think when you talk to your wife about things that are true but may hurt her, you can use careful sentence structure to make it less hurtful. When you are talking here on the forum, you don't need to be careful with your thoughts (or expression of those) so in their raw form, they may be more hurtful.

I have told my H about the forum. He has little interest in it, but I told him he was welcome to read my thread. The only thing I warned him was that this was a JOURNAL for me and if he chooses to read it, he is seeing my thoughts and emotions uncensored. He understands that I don't write here with his feelings in mind. I say what I think and feel for ME. If he wants to see those thoughts and feelings, he is welcome, but he knows that they may hurt in their raw form.

HTM

Just wanted to give those of you who have followed an update. We had our appointment with Jenifer this eve. It went really well. Started kind of slow but then got rolling.

Key points, NC letter. She says to add to a N/C letter that your spouse will now be aware of any contact. She said that is not in the book, but says she now tells people to add that. So that revision will be made. Letter has not gone out, and we had discussion about that. For us it won't go out unless contact occurs again. I think it is because the O/W implemented N/C so a letter could bring contact on. Even if it was for her to say she was happy for us. That was Jennifer's quote not mine.

The focus for me is more on extraordinary precautions. So needless to say we had much discussion on the work contact. So we worked out the phone issue, and I will be talking with the company Monday about the e-mail address. It was already suggested here by TST and Jenifer said the same. So hopefully that will go well.

Then it is extraordinary precations for us in general.

Some other good points. I am to create a list of why I am doing recovery. So when there are tough times, I have that to refer back to. Also for how thoughts can so easily go back to A to have a plan as she called it not to let the bird build a nest. She said the bird will come, meaning thoughts, but you can't let it build a nest. She gave some additional practical steps. Basically to get my senses elsewhere, such as pop in a mint, or hot tamale, seems kind of silly but I can see how that would work.

Next appt is Monday. Of course there is homework. That's ok that's what we need. So EN questionaire. Also to start reading Fall in Love Stay in Love.

Lastly this all made so much sense to me. But the last point she made, made the most sense. We need to start spending our 15 hours together but right now we don't know how to spend that time. Meaning without the tools the time spent together is the same old thing. Don't know if that is how it is for the rest of you attempting recovery. I have seen it suggested here so many times about the time together, but if you don't know how, it really can be counter productive. It certainly has been that way for us at times.

Also FWIW in reading material, although she did not tell us not to read SAA her focus was on FILSIL as those are the principals she will be teaching us. SAA as she stated can bring back alot of the pain. And discussing what we have read so far has been very true for my wife. She does not want to relive and hear again how the O/W met my needs. For me however I am seeing how easily it happened, and the need to impliment EP. So I am planning on reading both still but the focus on FILSIL.

So that's the update. I would highly recomend to anyone that has not called the Harley's to do so. Yes it is expensive, and we can't really afford it either, but I know where there is a will there is a way. And without a plan, it will be very costly and not just in $. For any wayward questioning the value, consider the $ spent to finance the A. This to me TST is one of those I will do anything lightbulbs to come on. I mention that because I saw in your thread how willing you were to do anything and it was extensive, and realized how my list of doing anything really needs to improve.

Great news! I'm glad your appointment went well.

Follow through with the assignments, as there will be more. Do not short cut the work, as "Half Measures" will avail you nothing.

I would suggest you get a notebook or 3 ring binder and keep all your notes together and for easier reference. I used a 3 ring binder with dividers for every key priciple that Jennifer taught to us. I added notes and questions between assignments that we covered during our coaching session. My mind was often scattered so this notebook helped.

Stick with Jennifer's assignments only. You can read SAA on your own when you have more time. When you read SAA, I don't recommend you discuss your thoughts with your W as that will lead to many triggers that you need to protect her from.

You're doing great, focus forward!

Scroll through this likn to the Extra-Ordinary Precautions.
It's a quick read.
LINK

Here is my list of EOP's you can use as an example for some of yours. Hope it helps.

I was just about to T/J when I scrolled down to see your list. One of my Hs biggest challenges is that he doesn't GET what EPs are. I'm going to share these thoughts with him.

Thanks.

HTM

TST-thanks for the input. I like that idea of the notebook. My mind/thoughts are definately scattered. I have already had questions come to mind and thought I need to remember that to ask Jenifer. The chances of me remembering are slim so the notebook will help.

I will put the priority on the assignments. Your right, I can read the others at a later point if nec. Besides as Jenifer told us the quicker we can get up to speed on all of this the cheaper it is. So I definately need to focus on the assignments.

Thanks for the ideas on EP. I could think of them for the O/W but not just in general. Jennifer gave us a couple ideas. But I need both. So your list really helps with the ideas.

Also taking advice on not discussing the book with my wife. Started to some last night, and you are right that was a mistake. Started to go south in a hurry. Fortunately did not last long, my wife just stopped and took the focus off the past and onto the future.

Got FILSIL last night so will have much reading to do over the weekend.

HTM - don't be discouraged by your H not getting it. I really didn't either and needed a kick start as well. So much of this does not come natural. Especially if you are in any part of a fog. Of which I know much has cleared but it is still there. Could be the case for him too.

One other thing from last night in talking about the giver and taker. I had stated to Jennifer that I know my taker is still in charge. She said our taker has no brain. So now I am like, I think it is the scaracrow in the Wizard of Oz, If I only had a brain. Just know that he probably still has some taker in charge too. Course you probably already realize that.

Not and tst,

You inspired me to do a little work. I took the post of EPs and tweaked them for our M. I posted a new list on my thread...would you be willing to critique it from the H's side?

Thanks,

HTM

http://www.marriagebuilders.com/ubb...in=149145&Number=2102451#Post2102451

TST- I got your message from the other thread. I am going to do the work. I was trying to let HTM know that is how I think. Your point is well taken though I am certainly not clear in my thinking. I will take your advice and stay off the other threads. I certainly don't want to make matters worse for others. Thanks for setting me straight. Jennifer did say it is a narrow path. And we agreed to go down that path. We can't afford to keep floundering.

How are you today?

thanks for checking in.

Doin allright today I guess. Could not same the same for yesterday. Doing the ENQ yesterday. I made it through, but am not sure how well I did it. I struggle with seperating the emotions, and what makes me happy.

Meaning I easily start thinking about the A and what made me happy. Which is not a place I want to go. And really trying to figure out if my wife does this or that will it make me happy. Doing these excercizes sure seem to make me trigger ALOT.

Then I got to reading some more. Dr. Harley clearly talks about the withdrawl and how trying to meet EN prior to withdrawl being complete is a waste. That is what I am afraid of to some degree. If my wife starts doing theses things and because I am not out of withdrawl it does not have the impact then it will only cause her more frustration.

In addition, he says to start with the LB's and not the EN's. So I was confused with why do we seem to not be doing this in order? I think the LB's are a big one. I know when my wife LB it absoulutely leads me to thinking nothing I do is good enough. That this is not going to get any better. Also I read that Dr. Harley starts every session reviewing the LB's to see if progress is being made. I think the way he put it is that the holes need to be plugged first.

So I started filling out the LB questionaire. Needless to say I am a bit confused.

So question for you, what order did you work on things?

Also so you know since you are the one out there really helping me, I have been following HTM thread, because I can see how much her H is being like me, well to a certain degree. I am doing the assignments. But I will not post accept for here. I do see what you are saying that I am still selfish and being entitled. My no brain taker still rules too much.

Stick to the assignments as they are given to you!!!

Read as much as you can, but put into practice only what Jennifer tells you to do or you will become overwhelmed and will do none of it well.

You are going to be learning many things that you will put into practice for the rest of your life. Relax and learn each of them in the order they are assigned.

LB's Questionaire will come later! Don't get ahead of yourself.

In the order Jennifer assigned!

It just so happens to be the same order as you are doing them.

thanks-

Jennifer had said to read read read. So I did and got confused. Started wondering if I had missed something in our session.

You are right about being overwhelmed. That is exactly what it feels like. So part of it is probably half a$$. I will go back to EN and really try to think about that some more. I do better Identifying I love it if, and I love it when, better than I do at Identifying the EN it goes with.

You are going to feel your wifes LB's for a while. She is going to have a hard time controling her's. You need to expect that.
You had an affair!
You have abused your wife in the worst possible way imaginable by having an affair. She is going to express this trauma in multiple ways for many months to come. Often in the form of a LB.

I recommend you put your taker under lock and key for a while. Sooth your wife when these moments rise up in her. Comfort her and let her know you are not going anywhere. Allow her to feel safe enough to express her pain and anguish. You must do this expecting nothing in return. It will get better one day at a time.

As you both work through coaching, you will be given more tools to help you. Be patient and do your assignments.

What you experienced this weekend is normal.

Some things do fit into more than one EN. Check with Jennifer when you talk next about some of the more confusing ones.

Do this step well......

Everything that leads to Romantic Love rests on this foundation.

Tst


Thanks you for this post. I see from your signature that you are a FWH and this post help me as a BS. It gives me hope for my own H's recovery and allows me to continue to give my self permission to feel all that I am feeling and not feel too badly when I am unable to control my triggers.

I hope it's still ok for me to post here...I know that tst is doing an incredible job advising you and I probably don't know half as much as he does...but I do have a different perspective to share sometimes.

I was told to do the ENQ first and leave the LBQ alone for awhile because it is easy to get caught up in the things that your spouse does that you don't like. I think that probably makes sense...you start out trying to make a list of things that your spouse could improve upon and as a BS you start to think about how much you dislike your WS and as a WS you start to think about how much you dislike your BS. While I think Dr. Harley is right about needing to try to avoid those things...it may be good enough to just know what LBs are and avoid them on the whole instead of really focusing on specific things that your spouse does that irritates you.

It's funny. You say that you are following my thread because you see yourself in some of my Hs actions. I follow your thread because I want insight into my Hs actions. Since my H won't post here, I wish he would just READ your thread.

You seem to be on the right path (for what my opinion's worth). Keep following the coaching. It makes so much difference that you are participating in your recovery!

HTM

When is your next appointment w/Jennifer?