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Hey KMS--

I'm kinda having a busy day at work... but one thing struck me in your post above and I wanted to clarify really quickly... (I'll answer more indepth later).

I DID NOT in any way shape or form mean that you should hold your feelings of remorse about the A back! SHOWING that you are truly remorseful (as you did last night)-- will greatly help intro too. What I meant by holding your feelings back, was more pertaining to his RA and to your own ENs. I meant holding back the more "selfish" feelings. You should never hold back your remorse!

OK, more later, but I am starved and need to eat lunch and am having a super busy day at work.

E.

PS- I LOOVE the camping idea. You going this weekend?




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Oh ops!!I took that the wrong way.I would like to hope that I have been holding my "selfish" feelings back.I mentioned before and it seems to be working (and making me feel good too)is rechanneling those "feelings" into meeting ENs.



I am going to take your advice and ask to leave a couple of days early.At the time of quitting I wasnt thinking of Intro but me.How they have been so good to me here and my bosses do know the history of the storey.But now know that doesnt matter Intro matters.

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Originally Posted by killingmesoftly
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Oh ops!!I took that the wrong way.I would like to hope that I have been holding my "selfish" feelings back.I mentioned before and it seems to be working (and making me feel good too)is rechanneling those "feelings" into meeting ENs.



I am going to take your advice and ask to leave a couple of days early.At the time of quitting I wasnt thinking of Intro but me.How they have been so good to me here and my bosses do know the history of the storey.But now know that doesnt matter Intro matters.

GREAT AND GREAT!!!!

I AM SUPER PROUD AND HAPPY THAT YOU ARE LEAVING YOUR JOB EARLY!!! I really think that is gonna help you both out a lot and will mean a lot to Intro. Don't necessarily expect him to show it-- but trust me it will be there on the inside for him.
grin grin grin grin grin grin grin

Is there any way that tomorrow could be your last day- or is that pushing it?

I'm glad you are channeling those feelings into meeting his ENs too. That's great to hear.

Yay KMS! Its those ACTIONS that are gonna count- that showing of remorse, quitting the job early... those ACTIONS count the most. Words have lost a lot of their meaning-- these ACTIONS are what are important. And you are taking the right steps. smile

E. *clapping for KMS*





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Originally Posted by killingmesoftly
But now know that doesnt matter Intro matters.

You ask what to do?

Be more considerate and respectful of this on a consistent basis.

Originally Posted by killingmesoftly
That is part of my problem I bottle things up then let them build help me to stop!

And do less of this. Communicate to Inro. Give him a chance to understand you and to then care for you.

How? Take the time to understand your feelings. Think through it. Ask, why am I not communicating this to Intro? What stops me? Communicate to Into so that he can understand his role if any or to just make him aware. Then get agreement with Intro and the two of you solve the specifics of the problem.



ME BH 40 - FWW 39

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DDAY - March 18,2006

Married 10 years

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I will admit that i havent communicated my feelings in the past b/c it seem that they fell on deaf ears so I quit doing it .I think that was part of the problem also.Now after so many years of not expressing them I am having a hard time with it.Hard time even writing down what I am feeling.

You are right.I am a speak before I think kind of gal.You throw me some very good info and for that I am forever greatful.
I also read chapter 10 in Surviving a Affair like you suggested.
I do have to be more considerate and tell him EVERYTHING.Just worried about love busting.

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Originally Posted by killingmesoftly
QUESTION TIME
1.Typical evening..pre-A...turn on TV make dinner.Intro would go upstairs and eat and watch TV,I would usally hang out downstairs and do the same thing.

The more you can get away from this the better.

I'm also an introvert like your husband. Sometimes we (introverts) need to be led by the hand. I would suggest you take 100% responsibility for social issues. At least for now.

And also (maybe I'm wrong) 100% of initiation of SF. There, I said it! Us introverted BS's take it exceptionally hard. We may question our manhood. Prove to us we are unrestistable! That's all we need!

I'm only telling you my perspective from the BS side.

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I will admit that i havent communicated my feelings in the past b/c it seem that they fell on deaf ears so I quit doing i

And this is how resentment builds up over time till it becomes entitlement.

Resentment is layered upon resentment until we feel entitled to whatever we want at the time. It is where the justifications used to validate an affair come from. It removes the "I will" and replaces it with "I deserve" until all that matters is our own selfishness.

So often when someone has an affair they say that it was because they deserved to have their ENs met. But most often, the BS wasn't getting their ENs met either. The difference that matters is when one chooses to have an affair rather than dealing with the unmet ENs.

"He never listens to me..."
"He stays late at work too often..."
"I tried to tell him what I wanted...""
"_______________" Fill in the blank.
None of them make an affair the right choice...

When we try to learn to negotiate for what we want, we all seem to have the same problem. Rather than resolving conflict, we seek to avoid it. It leads to lies that deepen over time...

Lies about how we really feel...
Lies about what we really want...
Lies about what we are happy with and what makes us unhappy...
Lies of omission and lies of "Nothing."

We try to keep the peace instead of solving the problem...

And we resent it because we aren't getting what we want.

We put it all into a gunny sack and carry it with us until we dump it all out at once. We claim that it was all our spouse's fault that we were so burdened with the resentment.

But WE are the ones who chose to carry it with us rather than dealing with it. We can fix it or we can drop it, but when we carry it with us, it fuels our resentment until we feel entitled...

And then we selfishly choose to fulfill ourselves at the expense of those we love...

You see, the REASON for an affair is selfish entitlement.
Lack of respect, for our spouse, for our vows and our values and for ourselves gives us the fuel we need to let it happen.
Resentment destroys our respect. Unless we deal with the resentment, it eats away until we choose to be selfish. And the resentment comes from our choosing to avoid conflict rather than resolving it.

You stopped sharing because he stopped listening and somewhere along the way, you stopped caring. But you chose to stop sharing. You felt you were not getting through so you decided to stop trying. And when you stopped trying he had no chance to hear anything, since nothing was being said.

In a marriage it is up to the husband to meet the needs of the wife and up to the wife to meet the needs of the husband...

But it is MY responsibility to express my needs and MY responsibility to let them be known. If I can't get my wife to understand my needs, it is MY responsibility to get her to understand. If I give up and stop trying, that is MY choice.

So each of us is responsible for getting our own needs met by our spouse. If we can't, do we ever reach a point where it is justifiable to go elsewhere?

If a marriage is broken, it should be fixed or done away with. But replacing it should only be done after it is dissolved. Until then, it is still a marriage and should be maintained as such.

If it's bad enough to leave, then leave it...

If it isn't so bad that you want to abandon it, then fix it or live with it...

A marriage is 50% each spouse's. If I fix my half, the whole improves. If my spouse fixes nothing, the marriage is still better than before. Even if I become perfect, the marriage is still half mine. Breaking my vows is a choice I have to make. It has nothing to do with my spouse at all.

The key to remaining faithful is knowing what to do if our needs aren't being met by our spouse. Many reasons can exist for that happening. They might be neglecting us, but they might also be mobilized by the military or be hospitalized for a prolonged period, or have a deadline at work and have to work long hours. Or maybe they to are in a state of withdrawal and simply don't care any more. But what we choose to do about it is what makes us remain faithful or become cheaters.

Plan A is all about putting self on hold for the sake of the marriage. It is what should be done in marriage anyway. It gives a BS something to work on that they can control. It lets them work on him or herself...even though their own ENs are not being met and even though they are being love busted continuously.

It's how a marriage can be turned around...even before it has been broken by adultery, lies and deception. It is what we each can do to remain faithful because we choose to. It isn't about anything a BS does, did or didn't do, but a failure to protect ourselves that leads to an affair. It is choice that we each have to make.

Sorry so long winded, but I get on a roll...

And don't have time to do IM type stuff...

Mark

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Where were you guys 6 monthes ago???If only I had said something,ANYTHING about how I felt left in the dark,none of this would have happened...if only I wasnt so self centered and just walked away from my marriage,why did I listen to people around me that said do whats best for you,never once did ANYONE say to just talk to him.See what happens when you do...you might be surprised.I make me sick to my stomach.What kind of friends are they?
how can anyone be as dumb as I have been?


Mark1952,your words have brought me to tears...




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why did I listen to people around me that said do whats best for you,
But what would have been best and what you felt entitled to were not the same thing.

Quote
never once did ANYONE say to just talk to him.

And since all of this happened, have any one of them admitted that they had no experience with anything like this.

Quote
What kind of friends are they?

What kind indeed?

Once we marry, our friends must also be friends of the marriage. Anyone who does not value marriage will not support you when you need the support for your marriage. They may say what they think you want to hear or tell you that they will stand behind you, but real friends will tell you when you are being an idiot. They will slap you silly when you get out of line. They will tell you the TRUTH when a lie would be less confrontational.

REAL friends care if you screw up your life...

Quote
your words have brought me to tears...
My hope was to bring you to thought...

Edited to add:

Quote
Where were you guys 6 months ago

That's just it. MB was here all along. Other resources were there for the taking as well. Books, weekend retreats, individual and marriage counselors...friends who have been through the same...All were there for the choosing. But you have to make the choice to fix it instead of destroying it.

Mark

Last edited by Mark1952; 08/07/08 08:55 PM.
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Well as I stated yesterday, I asked this morning if I could leave early and he said YES.Unfortunatly though today will not be my last day but at least I can leave a few days early!!!I still have a bunch of stuff to finish up too.But that made me sooo happy!Looking forward to some extra days off.

Thank you for giving me the strength and the guidance.

KMS

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Originally Posted by killingmesoftly
E!!!



Well as I stated yesterday, I asked this morning if I could leave early and he said YES.Unfortunatly though today will not be my last day but at least I can leave a few days early!!!I still have a bunch of stuff to finish up too.But that made me sooo happy!Looking forward to some extra days off.

Thank you for giving me the strength and the guidance.

KMS

Great!!! So when was your original "last day" and when is it now? That's really good to hear.

And great post, Mark. It hit home with me also.

What do you have planned for the weekend? I will actually be leaving after work this afternoon to go on a short trip to the beach with H's family... so I won't be around until next Thursday... (but other's on this thread have had great suggestions for you and I'm confident you can do this on your own smile )

Just keep at it. Pretty soon all of this stuff that takes a lot of "thinking" right now will become unconscious habit (or at the very least won't take as much thought).

I think you are well on your way to becoming a much better W, and doing well in your half fighting for your M-- not that your work is done, but you're off to a good start. This is a marathon, not a sprint though-- so keep your head up!

Have you thought of writing Intro an apology letter? A heartfelt letter (I hand wrote mine-- I think its more personal than typing it), that expresses your remorse? I also included in my letter MY OWN shortcomings that I knew contributed to my poor decisions-- how I realized what those were-- and what I was doing about those to ensure that an A would NEVER, EVER happen again. And of course, how much I loved H, and the reasons I loved him and respected him for giving us a shot. Mine ended up being about 3 pages long, hand written, (I tend to be long winded though, in case you hadn't caught that yet... laugh ) and took me about 2 weeks to write. I actually "typed" it out on my computer-- its easier for me to type, and go to back and delete, or rearrange, or add things in particular spots-- and then after I had that all to my liking I went back and hand copied it.

That might be an idea for you.

When were you planning on going camping? I think that's a great idea. If you normally don't fish with Intro when he's fishing-- take the opportunity to let him "teach" you. Fishing isn't that hard, but there's intricacies to it... what kind of fish you catch, how big they need to be, etc etc... (I'm not a fisherman, but there's gotta be more to it than just tossing in a line... 'cause that's what I do and I never catch JACK.... laugh ). It will help you connect. (unless you are already an expert fisher-woman too!).

Keep it up, KMS!

E.

Last edited by eeyoree; 08/08/08 09:33 AM.



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My last day was to be next Friday but we are going to talk about it more but aiming at Tuesday or Wednesday at least.I have to train someone here first.But at least every little bit will help..right?

Gonna plan for next weekend camping trip.But this weekend a little day trip to mountains and more fishing and swimming for Jesse.

Oh and yes I am a professional fisherwomen!!haha not!


PS. Have a great time on your trip,gonna miss chatting with you.


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I never catch JACK.

Well you can only catch Jack if you are where the Jack are schooling...

Inshore Fishing for Jack in Florida

You might want to check out my Fishing thread linked in sig line. Be ready for more than just fishing lessons...

Mark

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My dog can't swim laugh

I'm not kidding.

When she was about 2 years old, we took her out on a pontoon boat. She had a blast, sitting on the seats surveying and sniffing the air. When we jumped off the boat to go swimming in the lake, we tried to get her to jump too.

When she finally did, she SUNK! shocked

I'm TOTALLY not kidding you. She was FLAILING around trying to keep her head above water!

Because the water was deep there, I had to go over and "rescue" her... but she kept sinking me too because she didn't stop flailing when I grabbed her... so both of us are flailing in the water, me trying to keep BOTH of our heads above the water and trying to get her to CALM DOWN so I can swim her back to the boat...

Eventually-- we get back to the boat in the longest 30 seconds of my life-- and my friend dragged her soggy butt back up onto the boat, while she was coughing and hacking up water.

She went and hid under one of the seats on the boat and didn't come out for awhile laugh

I had scratches ALL OVER ME from her clawing at me trying to keep her head above water crazy

And she's a 70 lb dog too!! I thought all dogs could swim. Apparently not. Ever since then she's terrified of deep water (don't blame her, and don't particularly want to have to rescue her again...).

We think she's an Australian shepherd/Rottweiler mix. But she may be Aussie and Lab. We're not sure.

So, my dog wouldn't be swimming with Jesse wink

E.

Last edited by eeyoree; 08/08/08 10:28 AM.



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Originally Posted by Mark1952
Quote
I never catch JACK.

Well you can only catch Jack if you are where the Jack are schooling...

Inshore Fishing for Jack in Florida

You might want to check out my Fishing thread linked in sig line. Be ready for more than just fishing lessons...

Mark

Well that explains it!!! Guess I'm not in the right area for Jack!!! laugh

E.




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Don't skip the fishing lessons thread...

You can skip some of the drivel along the way, but hit the high points. You'll know which ones they are.

Mark

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Originally Posted by Mark1952
Don't skip the fishing lessons thread...

You can skip some of the drivel along the way, but hit the high points. You'll know which ones they are.

Mark

Gotcha. I'll get on that after I eat some lunch smile

I do enjoy fishing in the ocean. I've done the half day bay trips a few times while at the beach. You catch cool stuff there... and it tastes good too!!!

Although I will admit I have just as much fun catching other random things I have to throw back... like horseshoe crabs and other random crabs...

I think I get more excited when I pull up an ugly, angry crab than I do when I pull up a fish! I don't think I've ever caught JACK tho... laugh

Fishing in a lake I lose interest in pretty fast. Probably 'cause I'm not catching JACK wink

E.




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Think I will look into your fishings lessons online too, that way I came bring home the "fish" too!! laugh

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Too funny.The first we took Jesse swimming is was hilarious.It was a really hot day and we finally coaxed her in the water but once she got where she couldnt touch bottom her a$$ sunk and she was slapping the top of the water with her front paws not moving anywhere!!Priceless.Poor thing, all we could do was laugh.

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Originally Posted by killingmesoftly
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Too funny.The first we took Jesse swimming is was hilarious.It was a really hot day and we finally coaxed her in the water but once she got where she couldnt touch bottom her a$$ sunk and she was slapping the top of the water with her front paws not moving anywhere!!Priceless.Poor thing, all we could do was laugh.

THAT'S EXACTLY WHAT MY DOG DID!! laugh laugh laugh

I thought I was the only one that had a dog dumb enough to not know to MOVE her back legs when she got in the water...

Keep up the good work KMS. Have you told Intro you're getting out early? What was his reaction?

Have a good week!

E.




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