lol Actually, I'm the one who made the reservations we did have; that sort of fell into my list of tasks. But I only made reservations cus our real estate agent was so insistent. Neither of us thought we needed reservations for hotels once we left the area. Our usual routine is to drive until we feel like stopping for the night, then find a hotel, since we're never sure how far we'll get each day.

I think this is a case of "anger" (although that's too strong a word) actually being angry at myself for not being better prepared. What is that Tools saying, about fear is really anger, and anger about something is really being angry at yourself? Either for something you could have changed but didn't, or something you can't change but haven't accepted or adjusted to?

Something like that. I need to refresh my memory.

What I resented my H for was that he wanted me to stop at every exit that mentioned hotels, even though I thought we needed to drive further away from the rally. So the next time we stopped, I had him go in to ask for a room (usually I handle that, since I seem to get better rates than he does ).
He talked to the guy for half an hour and came out with directions to some little town 30 minutes out of our way, which ended up being full up anyway. I'm actually resentful that I didn't just do what I wanted to do, which was keep driving, getting further down the road, and accept the fact that we'd prolly end up napping in the car.

I actually did catch myself and realize my own part in that, my own responsibility, as it happened. Minor irritation, not really a problem. What may be a problem is that the solution seems to be for me to IB, not POJA.

Great ideas, thanks!

Some things that I like but he actually dislikes:

Having large rooms: room enough for the furniture from both of our houses, and room to spare or spread out. He doesn't want "empty rooms". I would rather have more room than furniture- I don't want to feel cramped, and I feel like we have too much clutter. I'd like room to spread out and sort things through and pare down, not just pile boxes in a cramped room with no room to sort through things. I also remember fondly playing in big empty rooms as a kid. Empty rooms are great for building forts, setting up train sets, setting up a sewing machine to finish some quilts, sorting through boxes of paperwork, etc.

He'd rather have too little room for our furniture. I'm afraid he wants to buy all new furniture to go with a nicer house. Most of our furniture is old and beat-up. I'd rather put that money towards the nicest house possible, and live with empty rooms and/or our old furniture for awhile.

He likes living in town in a neighborhood with a lawn to mow. I like being surrounded by forest, and I feel guilty about devoting water resources, fuel resources, and chemicals toward the upkeep of a crop of grass.

I like large lots. His mom remarked about how he'd need a riding mower and spend all his time mowing a large lot. But who mows the woods???

I like space - large rooms, lots of cabinet space in the kitchen, room for more than one person in the kitchen, etc. He likes "cozy", wants a house that doesn't have room for all our furniture, he wants to store my table (which would be great for a breakfast nook or rec room) and my bedroom furniture (two units of drawers and shelves that go on either side of the bed - they are expensive, sturdy, nice, and not at all feminine - but he only has a small set of drawers and a night stand from when he was a kid).

I'm not sure what would be on my must-have list. I feel like with the right house, if it was just missing anything on my list, I could live with it. Well I guess a must-have for me is at least 3 bedrooms, and enough space for a piano, and a large master-bedroom closet and bathroom. And a decent view.

I'll ask him about doing such a list. Thanks for the ideas.

oooooh, cat, you have exactly 3900 posts! Cool!

But now you can't post, cus you'll mess that up! Well, there's always, 4000...

jayne, I hear you, H likes a bigger house than I do. But he also likes a special deal, and jumped at a "smaller" house that had some great extras that they weren't charging extra for, like an awesome lake view and a huge back yard. I think cat's idea will get you a long way. Maybe you all will see a great home with some bigger rooms, and some smaller rooms.

How pathetic is it that I've spent that much time here in 9 months? I got kicked out of my other forum, so I've got nowhere else to go (wha wha wha).

My SIL did the 'only buy good furniture and keep empty rooms til you can afford the good stuff' routine, and she's really sorry, cos she spent her kid's whole time growing up living like that.

Now, I love good furniture, since I've never been able to afford good stuff and always buy the cheapest thing. But I'm sure there's a good compromise. Like discount stores or eBay.

Gotta go put everything away outside before the tropical storm/hurricane gets here. Good luck!

I'm not trying to argue, but I don't understand this. Can you explain more, or tell me what I'm missing, or is it a matter of preference? I don't see what waiting to have nice furniture has to do with enjoying your kids. I would think having nice furniture is the opposite of enjoying your kids, but maybe I'm on a totally different path or something. I'm picturing having nice furniture and always telling the kids to not jump on the couch, to keep their shoes off the chairs, to not spill anything, not draw on the table, etc... vs. having a big empty room with an old sofa and maybe an old table, that the kids can climb on and build forts, chase each other around, etc...

Am I raising a buncha heathens and y'all are more civilized, so your kids can be around nice furniture, or what?

Sorry. What I meant was that she literally had empty rooms, because she wouldn't buy anything until she could afford 'only the best'. My H (her brother) delighted in proving to her that, when she eventually did buy furniture (from Ethan Allen), it was made in China! This was back in the 80s, so furniture from China was like the ultimate embarrassment. So her son (only child) spent his whole childhood in a house without furniture, basically. He'd have his friends over, and they'd spend the night in a room that had nothing but a TV. It was just weird. I don't know how else to explain it.

Later, she admitted that it was counterproductive, because what she thought she was saving up for turned out to be no better than what she could have been living with for 20 years.

Ah, ok! Thanks for the explanation. Really, I wasn't offended, just confused and doing a reality check.

We had an upstairs living room-type area that was mostly empty, had some potted plants but that was about all except at Christmas we put the tree there along with all the presents. It's where we'd set up the train set and where we'd play Monopoly, build forts (dragging chairs from other rooms and using sheets and blankets), etc. The neighbors had a whole upstairs they hadn't yet finished, that was even more fun. With no drywall you could play chase and run right through the walls, between the studs. And the floor was some type of just covering or something, and water would pool into little balls like Mercury. Tons of fun! Like a playhouse right there inside the grownup's house!

But I never claimed to be normal. LOL

Jayne, thanks for sharing the visual, of a beautiful wooded back yard, lots of room for the kids to be creative. It's fun just to read about it. I love when my H shares things like this, what he likes about something, what he visualizes. Have you shared this with your H? What does he enjoy about the small cozy spaces?

Jayne, are you feeling reactive this morning? I ask as someone who reacts here myself. But it's good information, KWIM? What's the sore spot there? Lack of ownership and investment? Anything you'd like to explore?

That reminds me of when we were looking for houses. My H kept picking houses that had regular ceilings in the living room, while I kept going for the newer style of 2-story high living rooms, a wall of windows, second floor overlooking the living room below. It took us a while to figure out that we had actual preferences for such things, that they revealed a personal comfort level. Maybe it's that 'man cave' thing they always talk about.

Thanks ears, for the support and for caring enough to ask if there's something else going on.

Yes, as a matter of fact I am feeling reactive; a lot is going on, and I feel things are spinning out of control and I'm not keeping up with my responsibilities and tasks. I'm afraid of this move going badly.

We talked "briefly" about the different things we liked - we talked in the car en route to grabbing dinner, probably about 3 minutes. I asked if we could talk when we got home and we said we already did.

Things are really hectic, I'll try again another time to bring up making the list, etc.

It could be. I'm really interested to hear why he likes "cozy". I'll let you know when find out.

Yes, I love the houses that have that "great room" with the wall of windows, preferably facing the west and sunsets; and the catwalk overlooking it. We seem to both like the wall of windows and the vaulted ceiling, so that's good.

Jayne, I can't imagine trying to POJA on a house, with furniture in transit, while there is such a lack of communication. Would it be kinder ot lower your expectations by finding a short term rental until you two are able to POJA on the house?

A good friend aloowed herself to be pushed into a house her H and the realtor were in love with last year. There were numerous defects and code violations that the home inspector did not find initially, and she's left with a house that represents self-betrayal to her. She is working to reclaim that now. But I see the same thing in you, pressure to settle before you have addressed your concerns.

What about the Rule of 20. What are 20 ways you could make this move kinder on you and your family?

Rule of 20... sorry I don't recall that one. Is it on MB?

We are surviving pretty well right now. We're at the Canada house, having survived the road trip here, moving everything out of "my" house, and doing a bit of house hunting in the middle of a motorcycle rally. lol

I have a very interesting update. Our SF has been very infrequent, maybe once every 2 or 3 weeks, we are both usually too tired, and I'm almost always the one to initiate. Last night when I came to bed, I remember thinking about initiating, and decided not to, since I'm just tired of always being the one to initiate. I could take it or leave it, if he's that indifferent, I'd just as soon log onto the computer. Well, as soon as I came over to the bed, H said let's have sex! (Or something - not as in a demand, as in a suggestion or request. He may have said do you want to have sex.) I said sure! And snuggled up to him instead of reaching for the computer.

Let me tell you... well how much can I say without being censored... he did things he hadn't done in a long time! He even asked about doing something else, I said yes but then was feeling reluctant, he said that's ok and didn't push for that other. I said next time, and he said even if we don't do it next time, what we did was still good.

This morning I asked what I'd done to trigger that, so I could do it again - if it was that I'd cleaned up the whole kitchen while he was at work, or that I'd washed all the laundry, or that I'd gotten a hair cut. He said sure!

I've been feeling like I'm teetering on a depression, with all that's going on... this was sure nice!

He left this morning for a business trip, comes back Tuesday but I leave Wednesday... coming back the following Saturday. I'm looking forward to Tuesday night!

That's great!

You triggered something in me when you said about logging on. I know for sure that my being on the computer is a big LB to H. I started doing it because he's spent the last couple years on his laptop nearly every night; so I started using mine, too. But he's made comments that tell me he feels that my computer time is supposed to be the time I spend with him; he's jealous of it. I don't know if your H is like that, but it's a possibility that he mistakenly thinks you prefer the laptop over him, so it turns him off.

I'm sure you're right.

Like you, I started with using the computer at night in bed, b/c he would be out in the living room or dining room, on HIS computer or reading. I tried being out there with him,but would just be ignored, or if I tried talking to him, he'd go into another room. So I started going into the bedroom to watch tv and/or spend time online. Filling that Convo EN that he was so against.

I know there's times when we prolly would have sex, if I initiated instead of picking up the laptop or turning on the tv. Or rather, put those things away when he came to bed, since I usually am already in bed, and either watching tv or online - not just laying there all alone.

There's been times when I've asked him to come to bed earlier, so we could spend time together. That rarely happens.

I think he does it to avoid having to have any conversation. So I turn to tv or the computer. I should prolly spend less time online after he comes to bed. I don't much feel like turning those things off if he's not going to talk
(my EN), and I'm gonna have to initiate any SF (his EN more than mine, presumably).

It does help that he was willing to initiate and do a LOT of the work. It felt like it was "worth it" for me to turn off the computer.

Hi jayne, I hope EE stops by, he has a knack for finding those sneaky DJs.

The Rule of 20 was from Tools for Life, where you think of 20 things you could do to reach your goal.

Thanks for sharing that you all had a great time, and I wanted to say, SF sounds like it's a great EN meeter for both of you. I hope that you find ways to get more UA time that includes SF on a more fun schedule that once every 2-3 weeks. That's kinda where we are, and it's not as much fun as when we have our routines down better and have more time for fun

Where is the depression coming from? I've heard it quoted as "Anger turned inward," and that's very true for me. How 'bout you?

Ah, now I'm embarrassed! I was afraid the Rule of 20 might be a Tools thing but I couldn't remember... one reason I didn't reply to you right away was cus every time I read your last post, I thought "I need to check to see if that's from Tools or MB!" And always got sidetracked with RL before I followed through.

I'm getting a bit better at self-examination for the source of depression... thanks for the reminder. A lot of times I think my depression is anger... anger at myself... and (I think this is from Tools) I'm learning to recognize that anger at others is actually anger at myself. I was able to verbalize that the other day, when I was being H&O with H that I was feeling anger at him (and I was doing it without an AO!) and I segued into realizing, and admitting to him, that my anger was actually at myself because I could've just as easily taken care of what I was angry at him for not taking care of.

So I'm feeling depressed/guilty/angry about missed opportunities... not taking better care of our finances, houses, etc., so it would have gone better when selling... I'm feeling depressed about the uncertainty, and I don't think that one falls into the "angry" category...

Right now I am just plain utterly exhausted. Emotionally and physically. The kids wore me out today at the museum, I feel stressed that I got no work done this weekend, I miss H and I don't know what house or apt. we'll be living in a month from now, when we will all start new schools and jobs.

Yesterday in addition to a haircut, I also bought a couple of skirts and a pair of warm-weather pants and jacket, for my trip next week and possibly to get me through the first week or two of school. Almost all our clothes went into the storage unit when we moved, and the only clothes that seem to have come with me to Canada are the clothes that were in my suitcase from our Florida trip (but washed! They were washed and re-packed, just not re-organized to include more appropriate business attire). With it being near the end of summer, I was able to get 2 skirts, 3 tops (including two that look very work-related, blouses with camisoles underneath so no worries about reaching to write on blackboards and having gaps between buttons!) and that pants-and-jacket suit, for just over $200. That's the third time I've bought clothes in 12 to 14 months!

Ok, I'm tired and I'm rambling. Thanks y'all for putting up with me when I ramble like this, and when I don't pursue the hard growth questions more.

Hormones must be affecting me or something, I feel like saying "I love you guys!" in a weepy drunk voice, and I haven't even been drinking! lol

ps - Is this the DJ you were thinking of?


Or somewhere around in that paragraph... When I wrote it, I wondered if anyone would call me on that...