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So it's ok to go into withdrawal? Cus that's what I want to do, if he isn't going to talk to me.
me - 47  H - 39  married 2001 DS 8a  DS 8b :crosseyedcrazy: (Why is DS7b now a blockhead???) (Ack! Now he's not even a blockhead, just a word! That's no fun!)
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Our attitude, our perspective, is our decision, but I don't think you can choose your feelings. You're in withdrawal if you don't like when he meets your needs. When you like it when he leaves you alone, because you don't like how you feel when you're with him. I think the 180, the behaviors, can help you get from Conflict to Withdrawal when the frustration of owning actions that aren't your own gets to be too much. Just one persepctive. I hope others join in.
Me 40, OD 18 and YD 13
Married 15 years, Divorced 10/2010
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What is the fear of withdrawal? Not everyone is wired the same way, jayne, but I think you're a woman who can be in withdrawal and set boundaries around yourself so you don't fall for another man. What do you think? I think so. I was flattered when someone almost flirted with me last week, but I'm not interested in anyone who doesn't have all of H's good qualities - faithful, not having AS high on their list (just cus I don't like it and don't wanna deal with someone who cares about make-up or being stick-thin, not because I'm ugly or anything), and trusting and flexible enough to deal with my schedule and travel. With this move and careers and the kids, there's a hundred very unromantic reasons why I want to stay with him. So if it's ok to become just "business partners" and for me to emotionally detach, then that's what I want to do.
me - 47 H - 39 married 2001 DS 8a DS 8b :crosseyedcrazy: (Why is DS7b now a blockhead???) (Ack! Now he's not even a blockhead, just a word! That's no fun!)
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K, jayne, you're scaring me here. If withdrawal means to you being vulnerable to other men if they have ALL the qualities, I think the DIY 180 may put you in a bad spot.
What do you think about caliing the Harleys? I keep checking the MB Weekend page to see where the next one is planned.
Me 40, OD 18 and YD 13
Married 15 years, Divorced 10/2010
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No, I don't think I'm vulnerable... what I meant to convey was that there's almost no guys out there who have all those qualities, and even if they did, I'm too far invested now with the move and career decisions and the kids. I really mean that. The other guy would have to be a ______ist like me, be in the same projects so as to not disrupt the projects, be bonded to my kids, and be trustworthy and faithful - which he wouldn't be, if he would consider getting involved with a married woman.
but I'm so frustrated with H that I'm considering calling the Harley's, for help with my M, NOT cus I'm tempted to get involved with anyone else.
me - 47 H - 39 married 2001 DS 8a DS 8b :crosseyedcrazy: (Why is DS7b now a blockhead???) (Ack! Now he's not even a blockhead, just a word! That's no fun!)
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I think that's an excellent idea, jayne! Much better than stop-gaps like 180 and withdrawal. You can get back on the right track this week! I'm so excited to hear this 
Me 40, OD 18 and YD 13
Married 15 years, Divorced 10/2010
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I called once, and got so much insight and motivation, the best money I've ever spent.
Me 40, OD 18 and YD 13
Married 15 years, Divorced 10/2010
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I haven't decided for sure to do it yet Really, you think just one phone call would make a big difference? You think I should hurry up and do it, not wait until we get to our new location, or see if H approaches me to talk over the next few days... oh, wait...  ..sorry, couldn't resist.
me - 47 H - 39 married 2001 DS 8a DS 8b :crosseyedcrazy: (Why is DS7b now a blockhead???) (Ack! Now he's not even a blockhead, just a word! That's no fun!)
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I think you should do it now, jayne, because meanwhile, you're still in State of Conflict, and that means danger of AOs, that can escalate...
Or do you think my fears are overblown and unfounded?
Me 40, OD 18 and YD 13
Married 15 years, Divorced 10/2010
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I don't think I'm in danger of AO's. I'm either too withdrawn, or else I'm healthily recognizing my anger as being anger at myself for allowing this into my life, and recognizing that AOs are counter-productive, and taking responsibility for my life, etc...
I for sure don't want to AO. It won't get what I want, which is H to talk to me. I either want to lead the way by not LBing, or I want to withdraw.
me - 47 H - 39 married 2001 DS 8a DS 8b :crosseyedcrazy: (Why is DS7b now a blockhead???) (Ack! Now he's not even a blockhead, just a word! That's no fun!)
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Jayne, glad to hear you have a handle on the AOs. I still think it's good to get the call in to their office today, because every day, you're really suffering, and I think they have the insight to share that you can start suffering and start feeling really empowered to make an amazing life. That gift really amazes me. I'm still a little concerned that there are not more folks commenting, because I think one view isn't adequate.
Me 40, OD 18 and YD 13
Married 15 years, Divorced 10/2010
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Thanks ears, for talking this through with me. Yes I value multiple inputs and different views, but I think you're pretty on-target here. Besides, the past couple days I've been trying to do the right thing by reading up on stuff like the Giver/Taker, and the Freeloader/Renter/Buyer, and seriously, I think I was getting myself confused. Theoretically they are all in agreement, but I still don't understand how you can "teach" your spouse to treat you with respect by enforcing boundaries without it turning into tit-for-tat. Right now I think H acts like a Freeloader and I'm feeling like a Renter (b/c of the withdrawal, not cus I'm wanting to find someone else)). But Plan B is Renter behavior, and it's also withdrawal, which I thought was bad...  
me - 47 H - 39 married 2001 DS 8a DS 8b :crosseyedcrazy: (Why is DS7b now a blockhead???) (Ack! Now he's not even a blockhead, just a word! That's no fun!)
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I'm considering trying one more time to talk, before calling the Harley's. Talk is cheap, after all. What do you think, would that just be an LB, given what you know about my H? He has made it clear he doesn't want to talk. I feel desperate to talk.
Then, is calling the Harley's something to POJA? Should I tell him I want to, ask him if he will participate, just inform him that I am going to, or just do it myself without telling him?
me - 47 H - 39 married 2001 DS 8a DS 8b :crosseyedcrazy: (Why is DS7b now a blockhead???) (Ack! Now he's not even a blockhead, just a word! That's no fun!)
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jayne, that's where I got into trouble. Because H was enthusiastic about me meeting with someone on our insurance. At the time I called, I wanted help with Plan B, so I really wasn't goign to wait to get POJA on that, and didn't want to announce ahead of time about Plan B, because that's painful to announce if I was going to then keep trying first. Which I did, so good thing I didn't announce it.
So I talked to H, that I had spoken to Steve, and it was great, and I'd like him to call with me next time, and he about hit the roof. He still is only enthusiastic today about using an insurance-provided MC. Even though I think we would have progressed much better with Steve.
Me 40, OD 18 and YD 13
Married 15 years, Divorced 10/2010
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So I should tell him at least? Possibly POJA? Maybe that could be my last-ditch effort to talk to him - try one last time, and if he isn't willing, then my "boundary" is that I will call the Harley's?
OMG I'm starting to feel panicky... not just cus of this, but cus of everything...
We're trying to close on a house, get another house sold, get approved for a loan and some medical bills from after the kids were born are still showing up as unpaid and hurting my credit rating, we need to discuss paying those and paying down the credit card before a credit check is done; my new prescription glasses are being held at the border and I need to "hire a broker" ?!?!?! to get them... my reimbursement for the NZ trip is being held up at my place of employment, typical of them throwing up every possible roadblock at all turns...
me - 47 H - 39 married 2001 DS 8a DS 8b :crosseyedcrazy: (Why is DS7b now a blockhead???) (Ack! Now he's not even a blockhead, just a word! That's no fun!)
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jayne, if you feel comfortable trying one more time, and willing to let go of the response, by all means, talk to your H. Personally, I get nervous about the reaction, so I suggest a public place, like a coffee shop. Especially with someone who might get "grabby" with you. Is that still a concern, or has he stopped that?
Me 40, OD 18 and YD 13
Married 15 years, Divorced 10/2010
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Jayne, I'm thinking about my conversation with EE on vintage girl's thread yesterday, and how some folks would consider a spouse following them when they don't want to talk abuse as terrorizing as giving a spouse a black eye. Given that possibility, what about saying something ahead of time like it says in the Four Guildeline to Negotiation, saying ahead of time that either person can leave the moment they feel uncomfortable. Maybe your H feels so abused and terrorized over time that he doesn't see other options other than to get physical with you. So you can reinforce about it being okay to leave the table. And have the discussion out in public might make him feel safer, too. I don't know.
Me 40, OD 18 and YD 13
Married 15 years, Divorced 10/2010
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ears, thanks for hanging in there with me... short answer cus I'm kinda panicky right now...
Yes I read what EE said about following when the OP is trying to not talk = abuse. That's something our MC said also, not exactly as abuse, but apparently (not true for me, but apparently true for H even if I don't understand it) when H needs the conversation to talk, it is very troubling to him if I try and continue to talk past his limit. So I identify with what EE said, even though that isn't the way I operate, I have direct confirmation that some folks do.
*whew* breathe... ok...
I'm not "scared" per say... (is that how you spell the phrase that is pronounced "per say"?) of him getting grabby. That would make me angry, not scared. Does that make sense?
me - 47 H - 39 married 2001 DS 8a DS 8b :crosseyedcrazy: (Why is DS7b now a blockhead???) (Ack! Now he's not even a blockhead, just a word! That's no fun!)
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Not saying my getting angry would be a good thing. It would be bad, if I acted on it. Plus, it's been established that he's stronger than me... grrrrr... so he'd "win". Grrrr.
I was the one that would step in between my mom and step-father, and scream at him to stop, or try to jump on him to make him stop, or something...
me - 47 H - 39 married 2001 DS 8a DS 8b :crosseyedcrazy: (Why is DS7b now a blockhead???) (Ack! Now he's not even a blockhead, just a word! That's no fun!)
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jayne, what I'm trying to ask, is are you concerned that you will push him past his limit today? Or are you two communicating that better?
Because for me, I knew that stuff kicked out the bottom of my bucket, but I take it that you find the silence worse. Either way, may be better to get expert help first. When was your last MC appointment, and when is your next?
Me 40, OD 18 and YD 13
Married 15 years, Divorced 10/2010
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