I have started my own thread after posting to CIM on her similar situation with her husband having an affair with her sister.

Two years ago I noticed my wife seemed to be very distant to me and began converstions which led to her eventually confessing to a LTA of about five years with my own brother. On learning of this I confronted him with the information. He tried to lie about it however my wife told him that she had confessed and he eventually admitted it and ordered us off of his property when I told him that his wife deserved to know.

I had suspected something was wrong for years however they had both denied it and when I told my parents about it they insisted that nothing could be going on. My wife and brother had always teased and flirted with each other however I had never dreamed that they could be capable of something like that...

After the truth came out I began searching for help and came across which literally saved my life. It is incredible the pain having two people who you love commit the ultimate betrayal. My brother is ten years younger than me (five years younger than my wife) and I had helped raise him because my father was working two jobs and really wasn't available to do things with us. The feeling that I loved him that much and to have him do that to me was absolutely the worst thing that has ever happened to me.

Using MB has helped my wife and I to develop some coping skills however she really doesn't understand the depth of the pain of having the OM be your own brother. I honestly can't see a picture of him without thinking of them having sex. Just hearing his name spoken causes me pain.

It would help us tremendously if someone could help us to find a way to explain to the my father particularly why the family can't go back to the way it was. I have tried giving him the MB concepts and theory and he just won't listen to any of it. So now my own father blames me for this mess even more than my brother (or my wife for that matter).

I also need help to get my wife to commit to the marriage. She thinks that there is no hope and that it is only a matter of time before this breaks us up due to the incredible pressure. She needs to know I have made my decision to stay and that she can feel safe in commiting to the relationship.

Any help would be greatly appreciated!!!

There is no way to make you father understand. You and your wife can NEVER be around your brother again. Your brother is a despicable human being for what he has done and nothing will get your dad to understand that this is not your fault. The fact that your dad doesn't understand is more a reflection of his desires than his ability to process this. He WANTS the family together...so, he is pushing towards that end.

I think your wife is most likely right about this eventually causing a spilt.

Can I ask why you decided to stay with her after such a betrayal?

Do you have any children? If so, are you sure they are yours?

Jim - I tend to agree with medc on this one.

If you want to try to explain this to your father you could ask him why your "flesh and blood" brother thought it was okay to have an affair with YOUR wife, and not just ONE time but over an extended period of time.

Your brother could both cheat on HIS wife and with his brother's wife when he COULD have just said "No," tells everyone that he was a willing participant and it's NOT all your wife's fault, let alone any of YOUR fault.

This man committed the moral equivalent of premeditated murder, over and over again. If you father can't see that, then the only realy hope I see for your marriage is to MOVE far away and sever all contact in a "leave and cleave" manner.



Leave and cleave. You and her "against the world" if that becomes necessary.

Thanks medc for your reply. I really think that your information on my father is correct. He does "get it" he just doesn't like it. How do I get him to not feel anger and resentment toward me for requiring NC between the two which affects all family get togethers?

In answer to your question why I decided to stay it hinged on several aspects. I had asked her for a very long time what was wrong. Why it seemed we could only get to a certain degree of closeness and then the walls would go up. It had come to a head and I told her I really couldn't take not knowing what was wrong. She had very simply told me I can't tell you or you would never forgive me or want to be around me ever again. She and my children mean the world to me. I told her that regardless of what it was if she came to me in Christian confession and repentance I would do as Christ has asked me to do and forgive her. It would not break us up. To her credit she has not had contact with him and has never thought "I should just get over it" for the family to be together. She has done everything I have asked for in regards to letter of NC and she has written letters of apology to the family. She is just so afraid that we will not be able to overcome this and pulls back out of fear.

I do have four wonderful children who now never get to see their cousins except for in school. I do not think anyone can ever know for sure that their children are theirs without DNA testing however over the years it has been obvious to me when my wife was hiding something (I didn't always know what however!!!). I have specifically asked on occasion for her to obtain DNA testing for the children and she has no problem at all with it and has even offered to pay for it herself to assure me. I may take her up on it depending on how the rebuilding process goes.

Do you have any advice on how to reassure her to commit herself totally to TODAY and quit worrying about what has happened in the past? If I have a totally commited to rebuilding wife I can heal past the past...even the loss of part of my family.

If your wife is a believer in Christ also, then HE has said it best. "Neither do I condemn you." And He had the right to do so. "Now go, and leave your life of sin." Begin TODAY, and each TODAY. Remember, for those who follow Him as their Lord and Savior, He took ALL of our sins and paid their full price for us so that we COULD have all of our sins forgiven by God.

God bless.

Thanks ForeverHers. I believe my wife is struggling with her faith at this time. She is angry at God because she sees my brother (who did not confess or try to turn his life around) getting off scot-free while she and I have suffered and been cast as the trouble makers in the family. I am afraid she sees it as 'do what's right and see what happens!' At that point she forgets that this is a natural consequence of her previous behavious and that you cannot shelter someone from the consequences.

My father refuses to confront my brother and refuses to work with any kind of scheduling of events that will not allow my brother to attend. The worst part is that he is slowly cutting himself out of our lives by not calling or coming to visit as he used to do. The tension is so thick when we are together you can almost cut it with a knife. Why can't he put the blame where it belongs??? You may be right that it may be necessary to put some distance either actually or emotionally between my father and ourselves.

My .02 cents worth - don't get the DNA test. What possible good could come from it? Those are your children. Period.
what if the test showed that one of the three had a differnt DNA? Would that child be any less yours?

God bless you and your family.

Just had another thought - call the Harleys for a phone counseling appointment. That will help you to come up with a good plan for recovery of your M. It is not cheap - but definately cheaper than a D.

Jim_Flint,

First, how long ago was the affair discovered. I sense it was two years ago from your words, but that doesn't seem consistent with some other things you said and hinted at. So would you please post a time line of when the A started, when it was discovered, what actions have been taken since it was discovered.

Now to reply to your question. You asked


First I think you are asking the wrong question. It is NOT your job to get your W to commit to the marriage. That is her job. Frankly, if she will not commit, that tells you a great deal. An uncommitted adulteress who has been in a long term affair with her H's brother for over 5 years, is not a good candidate for a W. It is really that simple. You can ignore this FACT all you want but your heart, your love, will not make it different.

She needs to decide to commit to this marriage (by the way do you, she or anyone else you are talking to know what is meant by commit? That term needs to be well defined by all concerned). You have no control over her. I would however recommend that you consider leaving this marriage if she is NOT committed to saving it and making it better.

Does your brother's W know of this betrayal? If so what is happening there? Is he divorced? If so, it is possible that your W is pushing YOU to divorce HER, so that she can say she tried and then go to your brother. Speculation I know but you have not provided a lot of important information.

In short you do not make your W commit. You can decide to be committed or not, that is your call. She is responsible for the rest of this mess.



I presume you have told her that you have made your decision. I presume your actions are consistent with this decision. If these two presumptions are correct, then SHE KNOWS. Her knowing isn't what is really holding up her commitment. If discovery is recent, then she is likely in withdrawal pining for the OM.

As for the issue of your father, you need to explain to him your issues. One your W betrayed YOU. Your brother betrayed YOU and his W, AND his whole family. You cannot be around him, it is your father's call on who he blames, but you know the truth and he has been told the truth. You have not mentioned what your mother and other family members think.

You are right to not be around him, and surely for your W to not be around him while you two are married.

Please read more of the articles on this site. And provide some more details so that we might offer you more accurate suggestions.

God Bless,

JL

Just Learning, Thank you for your reply and sorry for any confusion in my post. The affair was confessed to me on July 3rd, 2006. It had pretty much died a natural death prior to that according to my wife. That may be true as I had not seen the level of flirting and teasing that used to go on in recent times. I had suspected something was wrong for years however she refused to admit what it was. She told me when she confessed that the affair was intense for about five years. She was not exactly sure when the affair started as she did not recognize an EA as being an affair at that time. She does now. She says that the affair was mostly EA however there were periods of sex involved during the intense time of the affair.

After finding MB I shared with her the concepts and she agreed to write a letter of NC to my brother. She also wrote a letter of confession and apology to my brother's wife. She has written letters of apology to my parents (Mom died in 2007) and to my sister who has been wonderful and supportive of us. My sister has also tried to get Dad to understand that there can be NC however he refuses to accept that. My wife has also tried to get my father to understand there cannot be contact between her and my brother.

My brother has been a complete failure as an adult. He refused to take care of his and his first wife's children when she gave him custody. He has beaten his current wife and been charged with Domestic Violence and she still stays with him. My wife says one of the draws to my brother was the fact that they considered themselves both failures and commiserated the fact with each other. My father refuses to see any of this as a problem with my brothers character and integrity.

I think that you made some very accurate comments about commitment and I am going to visit with my wife about them and make sure we are both on the same page about what we expect as far as commitment to the marriage. Thank you!!!

If your father insists on scheduling family gatherings with your brother then don't go! This isn't rocket science.

Can you get your wife to come here and post? We can help with some attitude readjustment.

Hey JF,

Sounds like you don't need your father or your brother in your or your family's life. They do not support your family! It probably sounds awful and I know it hurts, cutting family out, but truly if they don't support you & refuse to "get it", then it must be done.

If your wish is to save your marriage, then go do it - far, far away would be good.

Hi JF-

Just a couple of things that I wanted to comment on about this whole thing.

First, about your kids. As one of five adopted kids in one family, I can tell you first hand, it isn't biology that makes your kids "yours". My parents have modeled for me the love that God has for us when He says that He has adopted us into His family. My dad has said to us all our lives that he is "a rich man" because of his kids. That's a great thing for any kid to hear-no matter what age we are.

Second, about your dad and your little bro:

Have you ever seen the movie "Parenthood"? The dad (Jason Robards) keeps rescuing his loser youngest son and giving him second chances even when he knows his son will blow it. Sometimes it's just hard to face the truth. Also your dad may feel guilty about not being there for your brother and that's why he doesn't want to face the truth.

Either way, your dad must feel like he's between the proverbial rock and hard place. Exclude one son or exclude the other. Maybe it's easier to exclude (and blame) you because he knows you will be okay in the end. That's just my take on it.

Third, your W sounds like she is having trouble forgiving herself because of the complex consequences of this LTA. Well, that's part of forgiving-accepting the consequences of the sin (whether it's done to us or by us)-and asking God to help rebuild what has been destroyed. Not forgiving oneself is like saying "my sin is too big for you Lord" and that's not true. Has she gotten any IC for herself and the reasons she made the choice to have the A in the first place?

That said, you may have to make a choice.

What's more important, getting your dad to see the truth or your marriage? Besides, you can choose your family too. I should know.

Hope this helps.

Jim:

I have walked in your shoes for three years. It hurts.

My only living adult relative and my wife had a short affair three years ago. My wife and I have dealt with this by cutting him out of our lives. The way it is now is that I do talk to him from time to time, but my wife now has zero contact, period. As a matter of fact, she has only contacted him three times in the past three years for reasons she considered good at the time and I knew each time. Developing complete NC has been tough because it is family. She really wanted me to develop some sort of relationship with the cretin because he is my only living adult relative, perhaps as repentance or perhaps to mitigate her guilt, maybe both.

As I promised, I want to give you some insight into your wife's thinking, if how she feels and thinks comes close to the way my own wife feels.

My wife believes she cost me the relationship with my relative. I have told her that she didn't do it alone, he was right there with her. Their affair was a classic case of the slippery road starting with his pursuit of a closer relationship based on "Friendship." In other words, he was as much or more at fault for the destruction of the relationship as was she.

My wife is very, very concerned that I will never get over it. She is correct, I never will. The two most important and trusted people in the world (to me) betrayed me. It is that simple and that complex.

We have three kids. So what we did was build a new relationship on the ashes of the old one. And so far it has worked. We have a relationship that I believe will survive. At the same time, I am no longer the naive one. I know how fragile relationships are and I work at this one in ways I probably would not have considered in the past. So does my wife.

It seems to me that the one great obstacle to a better recovery of the relationship between you and your wife, simply put, is your father. He is being a flaming jerk. I do understand that parents will often pick the most needy kid, which your brother certainly qualifies for. This is parents with a poor idea of how to be a parent and how parents should do business. It is unfortunate.

It is based on guilt more than anything. Yet your father, by his attitude, enables how your brother does business. So yea, you dad should feel guilty, but not for the reason he likely has in his head.

So your father feels guilty that your brother is a mess and a cretin. Since you aren't, near as I can tell, he then puts the burden on you. This is an unreasonable position by any measure.

Your father's unreasonable attitude puts added pressure on your wife. She probably subscribes to the blood is thicker than water theory, so she likely "Feels" that over time, your father will help you to move on with your emotions instead of bonding fully with her, again. This is not an unreasonable emotional state for her to be in considering the guilt she is carrying around. Flight or fight mostly means flight for a large percentage of women (and males).

I don't know if you can ever reason with your father since he is not using his head, or even his heart, to formulate his position.

He wants a reset button to mitigate his guilt.

There isn't one.

You are in an impossible situation, just like me. There is no way you can restore any kind of relationship with your brother, whose lack of honor and integrity makes him a poor choice even for a brother. Excuse me for being blunt, but in my view, if a relative isn't someone I would choose for friendship, I am not at all sure I want them as relatives. I know too many cases of kids and siblings stealing from relatives to support their habits.

Honor is a two way street.

There are all sorts of biblical imperatives here and I am not qualified to discuss them.

Now it is that your father has forgiven your brother so many times, he expects everyone else to do the same. This is a load of garbage and once again, he isn't doing the right thing by BOTH of his kids placing you in this impossible situation.

In my book, your dad is the problem.

Larry

See - here's the thing - Forgiveness does not imply Reconcilliation and Restoration of the relationship in this kind of situation.

While forgiveness IS necessary, reconcilliation and restoration are not.

This is where a lot of parents screw up. Just because you forgive your kids does NOT mean you have to be a doormat, nor does it mean that you have to prefer the prodigal over the good ones. Yet parents unthinkingly do both all the time. Which is one reason for rotten offspring.

Larry

JF:

I'm one who asked you to post you own thread.

I hope you get alot of help.

It seems to me that your W is working WITH YOU to support your M.

Yes, she stepped out of it and threw mud all over it.

But she IS working with you now.

That is ALL that matters.

Yes, you need to exclude your brother from your life. Your Fathers wishes to the contrary, and no matter HOW much he "wants us all to get along" it just NOT going to happen. You can't handle that and you don't have to.

Leave it at your Fathers doorstep. Attend or decline to attend family functions do to your own circumstances. If you know you slimeball brother is going to be there, then you can choose not to be there, or go early and leave early. If others are upset by this, so be it.

You can't demand that your father SEE IT your way. He never will. You can only live your life so that it makes sense to you and your life.

It's difficult to cut important people out of your life. But you have to remove the toxicity of this from your life. You CAN be with your W for the rest of your life. You don't have to be with your father or brother. You can invite your father over to visit you. And if he is a bad guest, than you don't have to invite him anymore. If another guest was rude to you in your home, you wouldn't invite them back either. Establish YOUR boundaries, and if others do not like them, then so what.

LG

Here I sit, the atypical parent.

Have your dad call me, I'll explain........although he probably wouldn't like to hear what I have to say!

Here I sit, with both of my kids (S & D) and their paternal family PO'd at me because I won't let bygones be bygones. The OW went after S's 1/2 brother got pregnant married him. Back dooring my S's marriage. NOT!

It's been very quiet since I made "my" boundary clear. Oh, and when I did, my son slammed my front door so hard I can't believe it didn't fall off the hinges. Touched a nerve???

Rags. . .

Ok, I understand your ethics, morals and courage. I don't understand who the players are.


Who did what to whom isn't obvious from where I sit. Why was son mad at you?

Larry

Three years ago my S and DIL made a decision to reconcile. OW made life [censored] for the first year. OW then went after S's 1/2 brother with a vengeance, got pregnant, married him this March and had the baby in July. I call it "back dooring" my S's & DIL's marriage.

A week ago last Saturday they (my kids and their paternal family, as I'm divorced from their dad) decided to have a "family gathering". They all met up at a local restaurant to celebrate the "new" baby. GAG ME!!! How in the world my DIL sat in the same room as the OW and dined is way beyond me. DIL and OW now have the same last name. Lovely........

Now my S, DIL and D are all mad at me, nor speaking to me because I'm hollering NO CONTACT for life from the rooftops!