WHY you tell a child is because it is better for them to hear it from you than from someone else, and because you have control over how is is relayed to them, and you are there to interact with them afterwards. You don't do it merely to relieve yourself of guilt, although that may be a by-product that occurs. It takes courage to face difficult things and the children would also be learning some lessons, that sometimes we create difficult circumstances in our lives and the better way to deal with it is to face it rather than cow to it. The children also need reassurance that it is a "parent problem" and the parents are dealing with it. They also need to know they are not the cause as they tend to personalize.
Children need assurance that steps are being taken to prevent the situation from worsening. It also helps the kids to see that the parents are working together, that they love each other, and are working to preserve their family.
It's not as if kids "don't know" before they're told...they know SOMETHING is amiss, they just don't know exactly what. Sometimes what they imagine is worse than what is...another reason for talking with them.
By all means get advice from the Harleys beforehand about the best way to tell them/how much/how little...depending on the children's ages...but I stand by my stance that it is best to be honest.

Vows, well-said. I appreciated your thoughts, and agreed with them.

Personally, it's my opinion that (thanks to Mel) we already have his advice - tell the children, but make it age-appropriate. If I am remembering correctly, Jim's children are fairly old, perhaps even some of them young adults. If that is the case, Jim and his wife can just come right out and say the unvarnished truth.

Almost no one will look down on a repentant former adulterer. Most will applaud both spouses for making the effort to save a broken marriage.

Lest I be accused of hypocrisy, let me say up front we haven't told our kids at this point. Several reasons why.

A) They were very young during the A - 3, 5, and 6 when it started.
B) Their dad never left.
C) We were long into recovery before I first read that the children should be told, with the children safe and secure in a happy home. (And still very young.)

With those 3 things considered, it didn't seem like it would accomplish anything to tell them that much later. HOWEVER, if at any point they ask, they will be told the truth. And, should they reach the age of serious relationships without finding out sooner, they will most certainly be told at that point. Learning of the devastation of adultery may spare them their own pain.

melody

I have stated to Jim to seek out and follow the Harley's advice on this matter. Still do. Did so before you started all this cut and pasting of Doc H. Makes me not believe that you have read all that I have written on this thread.

Mel,

What TheRoad posted was NOT a joke. It is however, precisely what is commonly recommend by counselors and yes even clergy when an affair has taken place. You may not like it. Harley recommends against it, but IT IS WHAT IS FAR MORE COMMONLY RECOMMENDED than honesty.

Whether you think it is "stupid" or not, it is an alternative approach and Jim will likely hear it from the folks around him. TheRoad did NOT advocate this approach, he simply offered it as an approach that is far more commonly taken than what is done here on MB. IT does have its own internal logic, but it does seem illogical to take an event such as cheating and lie about it.

I am NOT advocating this approach either, but if one is discussing possible courses of action it would be remiss on our parts not to discuss a course of action Jim probably has already heard. To ignore it makes US and MB look dumb. Harley does not ignore it as you posted on it directly. He did that for the same reason. There at least two approaches to take, both have their logic, in the opinion of Harley and most of us here, honesty is the best approach.

JL

Houston, we have a problem....

The reason my wife and I have come so far with this situation is because we have followed a program (MB) and Dr. H's advice EXACTLY as the program suggests. I am actually able to see the beautiful, wonderful woman I married in her eyes again BECAUSE SHE IS NO LONGER LYING!!!

We had tried the conventional "wisdom" espoused by counselors with the only result being a thinner wallet and more and more anger and frustration on both of our parts because of the CONTINUED LYING!!! Because the counselors themselves did not demand honesty they were lied to and so was I and the true nature of the problem never addressed...

The only progress we have had was with complete honesty to each other and to our family. I personally think that any "clergy" or "counselors" that recommend LYING as a way to solve their marital and family woes CAUSED BY LYING should be committed to a mental facility and in the case of "counselors" sued for malpractice.

The children are entitled to know why their life is permanently altered and not to grow up thinking that the reason they no longer see their uncle is because of his bad behaviour. That would make absolutely no sense to them because then the argument becomes: OK Dad, we don't see uncle anymore because of his bad behaviour right? Well, how come we still see so and so and he has bad behaviour too? What's the difference? How bad a behaviour does it require to banish someone from your life?

Because they were not told the truth the questions would NEVER end as to why we don't see uncle anymore...

Worse yet will be the children's perception of their mother when the truth does come out which it will. Why did you lie to us Mom? What else have you lied to us about Mom?

I have taught my children since birth that "There is no such thing as a secret. The truth always comes out in the end. Better to live your Life knowing that everything that you do will eventually by known by all. Live your life as an open book and you will not live in fear waiting for that knock on the door to account for your lies."

Jim:

Good one

Larry

I have to say a hearty amen to that!

Jim

A poster here, 2Long, went to a counselor that strongly adhered to the concept of "measured honesty". I thought you might like to hear that one. What a crock!

God Bless,

JL

I would like to ask for prayers for my niece who was in the car wreck and lost her mother and little sister. She was expecting her third child in October and was just told that her baby had died and delivered the stillborn baby girl yesterday....

She had endured so much to have this happen...

Please pray for her and her baby and the rest of the family. Sometimes there are so many things we just don't understand....

I think of you all as family and knew you would want to know. God bless each of you and hug your kids.

I will pray and I will hug my kids when they get home from school. What a tragedy.

Larry

Larry, I will certainly pray for her and her family. I went through that myself many years go, it's very hard. I know it's futile to ask "why" and we might not understand if God did explain it to us, but I do know that He holds us in the palm of His hand and He has a brilliant future...she just needs to hold on, it will come. It's always darkest before dawn. Right now she is in the middle of a painting that is unfinished, and as such, she can't see any good in it as she can't see what it will become...but rest assured, it is being painted, and one day it will appear glorious.

I have been through much in my life, and one of the good things I find about being older is having a greater perspective...it enhances our faith!

Larry and Vows4Good, Thank you for your thoughts and prayers.

She is taking it pretty rough but she will be OK in time. She knows her Mom and little sister are in Heaven with her baby and they are taking care of her.

Vows4Good, You are so right about trusting Him no matter how confusing it is for us. Your sentiment about an unfinished painting is beautiful and I will share it with her.

My wife is just about done with her final draft for telling the kids. She is just as nervous as can be. We hope to talk to them tomorrow. I hope it goes well for her and for all of us.

I wish her the best as she delivers this to the kids...I know it'll be hard for her but my personal feeling is that once they've had a chance to process it, they will be alright.

Jim:

I should have asked this before. Is this your brother's daughter?

Larry

Larry, Thanks so much for the words of comfort for my niece. Yes, she is my brother's daughter and a kinder, more gentle, more understanding person could not be found.

She had already suffered so much to then lose her child. She understands the reason for no contact between my brother and I and even says it is the right thing to do and that she would do the same.

The service for the baby was today... I feel so guilty right now because I just could not go and see people comforting my brother when he doesn't care about anyone but himself... I talked to her husband's parents and asked them to give our Love to her as we just couldn't be there today...

My brother knows how much I am suffering and the rest of the family has suffered and he just doesn't even care. I know I must seem like a terribly selfish person to even think like that at a time like this but I do...

If he could show the smallest bit of remorse and concern for those he has destroyed I think I could in time forgive him. But to know someone would turn around and hurt you all over again in a heartbeat just doesn't lend itself to forgiveness....

The anguish I feel in my heart for you is so strong. You have been through so very much. I lost my oldest son and it was the hardest thing I have ever endured. Still is. Be safe. And may God someday help you find peace in your life and in your heart. No other words.

She did it!!! She took the first step in telling our oldest child of the affair today!!!

While I held her (not down, just holding her,lol ) she related the true reason why we do not associate with my brother anymore. I have never been more proud of her. She told the complete truth without justification or entitlement and accepted total responsibility for her actions.

We decided to tell them one at a time so that if any of them had questions the answer would be appropriate for their age and we could deal with their emotions on an individual basis. The oldest is in his late twenties and agreed that the way we are handling it is the best and that a lot of things made sense that didn't before.

She was greatly impressed with how he accepted the news and that he was not critical of her which helped greatly with her desire to tell the other children. She was so worried that he would resent her for the affair and he actually just seemed to accept it as an answer to a question he had had for years.

She has mentioned that she already is beginning to feel a tremendous relief that the truth is coming out and that she now longer will have to fear the children learning from someone else or of the information not being accurate.

Does anyone have any ideas on the language that might be appropriate for an eight year old that is truthful but is not too much information for such a young child?

She will absolutely be told however we are just undecided on language that would not cause undue resentment against her mother and of course is not age inappropriate. Anyone with personal experience with telling this age of child would be especially appreciated. Thanks to all!!!

Analysis of your brother from what you have said indicates that he is wallowing around in the attention he is getting now that he is out of your shadow and he "Gotcha." This is clearly arrested maturity and is partly a byproduct of your parent's dealing with him and whatever other life influences or genetic predisposition would hold.

He may have enough similarities to some of your own qualities as to well, make it easier for your wife to do what she did. There is an old post I cannot find that details how people impulsively give in to conditions that have been building over a period of time and instantly regret so doing, only the guilt causes them to create ever more fantasies in their minds to justify until they reach so high they cannot see the ground. And the corresponding and inevitable fall is thus harder and more painful.

I have no words for how to tell an 8 year old. My oldest was told that relative had done something I was not prepared to discuss that meant he had to go away for an indefinite period of time. He asked, "Did that have anything to do with [relative's child]. And I said "No."

Larry

Larry, Read your post and was hoping to learn a little more about what you meant by 'impulsively giving into conditions that have been building over a period of time'. Are you referring to her becoming 'infatuated' with him over the time of our marriage and culminating in the affair or something different?

She has told me that HER reason for the affair was that it was sort of a wierd blend of sexual attraction and feeling that they were both a couple of "failures" that had that in common and could commiserate about being losers. As the affair went along it was fueled by that and also anger and resentment.

I am VERY interested to know what else may have been present and maybe a little deeper understanding of the whole thing to better avoid any problems in the future for both of us. I really can't thank you enough for all of your help as the insight you have comes from a very unique perspective few people have.

There is a Christian web site that documents the steps to an affair. I cannot find it again or the reference to it that was posted here.

The idea is that some or many or most affairs start with small steps. It is called the slippery slope to an affair. There are a number of small steps that lead to an affair as inhibitions get disolved on the altar of PEA poisoning (infatuation).

The way you stop this is simple. Don't take the first step.

For example, a first step might just be a declaration of friendship or common interest. Along the way, "Can I just hold your hand in friendship." There are ALWAYS problems in a marriage, some unspoken for whatever reason. One of the initial steps is for someone to confess to someone else details of those problems. At some point, the active imagination of PEA poisoning actually CREATES false problems to justify the road being traveled.

And one day, under overwhelming pressure of the road traveled, the final deed is done. From that point, justification and rationalization combine to push the affairees to ever higher levels of addiction that frankly, is even higher than normal courtship infatuations amongst truly available men and women. The fall from such a height creates a very large thud.

As I have said before, PEA just goes away one day and the afflicted person has the vague feeling of foolishness as they try to cope with their infatuation history. I have been there and have the T-Shirt. I never did understand what I saw in this one female I was infatuated with during my early twenties. It was only later on in life that I discovered the mechanism.

PEA poisoning recognizes NO familial roadblocks.

Hope this helps. If not, I will go into greater detail.

Larry