I am proud of her! That took a lot of courage! And I'm sure it was a relief for your son. When we are kept in the dark it sometimes leaves us feeling like we're crazy.
As to how to tell an 8 year old...
Maybe something like...
Mommy had a relationship with uncle so and so that should have only been with daddy. She realizes how wrong this is and has ended relationship with uncle so and so. In an effort to protect our family, we need to stay away from uncle so and so. We want you to know so that you know it has nothing to do with you or with his children, it is a grown up thing that grown ups needed to handle.
????

Larry, I think you hit it on the head with the "impulsively giving in" perspective. She described exactly what you mention as a slippery slope to the affair.

She had told me that the way the affair started was after flirting and teasing for years without anything physical she had asked him to accompany her to a concert that I could not go to as I was working. After the concert they kissed and what did not start out as a "date" had become one...

She said after that kiss it was easy to go on a date and take it to a bar and then to sex...

After that had come the rationalization that you talked about where she could justify her actions with all sorts of reasons why it was alright for her to be having sex with her children's uncle....

You are soooooo right about the terrible fall that she experienced when she got her head back on straight. She has told me over and over again if there was ONE thing she could change in her life it was the decision to have an affair with my brother and I love her so much for having the courage to look me in the eyes and tell me that...

Vows4Good, I am so proud of her too!!! I will pass it on to her. She is already starting to feel better because she is handling it in the right way.

I think your suggestion is very good on the language for the eight year old. It gets the point across that there will NOT only not be contact between her mother and father and uncle but also not between any our family and the uncle. It also reinforces to the child that NONE of it is her fault or the fault of my brother's children. Thanks!

Jim:

The thing about affairs is that they follow a script. I have seen this with my very own eyes as I read the details of others who have followed the same path. What your wife did with your brother is dirt common and the road marks are the usual ones, unfortunately.

Unless you guard the first step, the subsequent ones are easy.

It sounds as if the both of you understand and from understanding comes acceptance of how the road was traveled and how to prevent those things which have traumatic consequences in the future.

All the best

Larry

Hey Jim:

If you still check in from time to time, do you have anything you want to pass on to others that might help them?

You have a fairly unique story, one that took more than normal in the form of common sense and dedication to family.

Share whatever you can, when you can.

Larry

Larry, Good to hear from you!!!

We are doing absolutely great thanks to you and the rest of the gang!!!

If someone had told me I would actually be able to see LOVE and TRUTH and HONESTY in my wife's eyes again two years ago I would never have believed it. Especially with the extreme circumstances of our situation with my wife and my own brother.

As you all know my father had been a major stumbling block with his feeling of it should just all be "forgotten and forgiven".

My wife has been fantastic about trying to talk to him and has actually talked to him at length with the outcome that he no longer blames me for the break up of the family!!!

He actually told my wife that he just doesn't understand my brother's actions... maybe that will come in time too. I never thought I would hear that he finally understood the situation.

He did tell my wife that my brother's marriage was barely hanging on... what a surprise.

Although I am certainly not a veteran I would be honored to share with others what has worked and what definitely does not work in this type of situation.

I and my wife can never thank you and the rest enough for your love and support through this absolutely horrible ordeal however in some kind of bittersweet way we have learned through all of this several things.

One that true love seeks a way to survive.

Another that in addition to some smucks there are a lot of truly wonderful, warm, loving human beings that are willing to help in times of trouble.

We love you all and God bless each and every one of you.

Way to go Jim.

Perhaps your dad will stop trying to make a fool of himself and get with the truth, even though I am sure it hurts him at the core. I know it would me.

This is a defining time in your life and all of the others who were, willing or not, part of the tragedy. It is my opinion that you exercised the leadership needed to help the others out of the swamp, especially your wife.

All the best.

Larry

PS, this is likely to be my last post. My wife's father has been diagnosed as terminal and has roughly 8 to 10 months to live. This means an almost immediate move to where he lives and a complete disruption in our life both emotionally and financially. Given the circumstances, it is hard for me to help someone with the focus they deserve.

And of course, I am grateful for all the support me and my family has received from this forum over the past three years.

All the best to one and all.

Larry, I am so sorry to hear of your FIL's illness.

Before you go I just want to thank you once again for all of the help you gave my wife and I. I truly believe we wouldn't have made it without your help.

I think the particular situation you found yourself and I found myself in required a slightly different approach because of the collateral damage to the families. In most affairs it is relatively (pun intended lol :RollieEyes:) easy to take the blood side of your family member however when BOTH sides are related as ours were it is a holy mess!!!


When you do find a moment please check in and say hello to all of your friends here. Although we have never met I do consider you one of my best friends and will never forget how much help you were to my wife and I.

We will pray for you and your family as I know you did for us. God bless.

Jim:

I really don't know what to say. Well, while I appreciate what you have said about however much help I was able to give you, I think that your road to recovery is more due to your own common sense than anything else.

That and your wife's ability to recognise just how tragic her errors of judgement turned out to be and her willingness to do whatever it took to recover her sanity and integrity. And now it looks as if your father might be following that same path. Time will tell.

Thank you for your prayers for my FIL. It is just a matter of time now and the time is short.

My wife interviewed for a job yesterday and somebody was looking out for her. She has a particular area of speciality in her field of Nursing (Infant, Mother/Baby, NICU) where openings are not all that common in the area where we are moving. One local hospital is jumping through hoops to get her even though they have no current openings - her experience and breadth of experience plus BSN status has made her, in their minds, someone they cannot pass up.

I may or may not be back some day Jim. Either way, all the best to you and to all the others who find themselves living with and trying to recover from, the emotional train wreck of adultery.

Larry

Bump for AlexEN!

JF,
I just read your thread. God bless you for getting through your situation.

So, I'm bumping your post.

How are things 6 years later?
CT

Hello CT,

Thank you so much for your blessing.

Mrs.Flint and I are enjoying every day of the rest of our lives...

in the way that two people that are in love with each other should be.

In an A that involves family members there is no way to avoid collateral damage and save the marriage.

We have had to adapt to certain strategies which are unique to our situation, such as letting family members know we cannot attend family functions which involve my ex-brother.

The collateral damage has been the damage caused by forcing family members to "choose" who they will or will not invite.

It is not as simple as just "not inviting my ex-brother" because he has forced his wife and children to side with him or suffer his wrath, which means ALL of my family has to decide if it's HIS side or MY side which is invited.

The absolutely FANTASTIC news is that our marriage has NEVER been better than it is now!!!

Our children were told the COMPLETE truth and love and respect their mother very much.

Because she did not allow the A to define her.

She has been a shining example of someone who has redeemed herself...

in not only my eyes...

but her entire family and...

most of all...

her own.

I love you, Mrs.Flint.

God bless.

Jim

You may not want to share the collateral damage that has happened but I am curious how all the branches of the family has been handling the need for NC.

Don't mind sharing at all.

The damage has been extensive and by the time everyone had been told of it they had also formed an opinion of what they wanted to believe and how they were going to handle it...

in the majority not very well.

In an affair that involves family members you don't simply have no contact with the OP because they are family...

you find out that by cutting the OP out you are effectivley losing EVERYONE that they have influence over such as their spouse and children because they are required to support the OP or suffer the OP's wrath for being a "traitor"...

So....

I have lost not only my ex-brother but his entire family and whatever relatives choose to continue his "revenge" against me for protecting my family from him.

As far as other family, my dad will come to holidays and birthdays, etc to see family but we really never got back to the easy relationship of father son we had before. One good note is that he has stopped pushing for a reconciliation between my ex-brother and myself. THANK YOU GOD!!!

My sister has really kind of just gone into a shell and doesn't see much of any of the family anymore, partly due to the situation with my ex-brother and being caught in the middle and partly because she has MS and is quite ill.

Cousins and others really haven't take sides they just kind of see who is around but really don't invite either side to get togethers for fear of offending someone, so contact with them has dropped off to an occasional visit.

In considering rebuilding a M which has an A involving a family member I think you really have to look at what the M was like before the A.

If you had a good M before then I would absolutely fight for the M especially if children are involved...

If there are no kids or you really never had a good M before the A I would look long and hard at trying to rebuild because the only thing that carried me through the rebuilding was my relationship with God, the love of my W and kids, and the backing of all of the wonderful people here at MB...

Thank you all.

God bless.

Jim

Well, it's been almost two years since I last posted on the affair between my wife and my own brother.

Actually I'm here again to vent because I learned from you all to vent HERE and not to my wife.

We are better than ever which is why this was such a surprise coming from my father because he can see that it is working.

About the time I thought my father had FINALLY gotten on board with the limitations of family gatherings and no contact between my ex-brother and my family...

Guess again!!!

He called me the other night to visit and casually mentioned that he was making reservations at a church valentine dinner for himself and his ladyfriend, my sister and her husband, my wife and I AND my ex-brother and his wife!!!!!!

VALENTINES DAY for God's sake!!!

When I reminded him that we would not be able to attend because of my ex-brother he went ballistic and yelled how long would it be before I finally give in and put the family back together again????

I reminded him that it was my EX-BROTHER (and my W) who destroyed the family, not I.

His response was "Well, What does that mean??? That you will never be together again with your brother in this life???"

I responded "Yes, that is what it means."

With that he hung up.

I know it shouldn't bother me...but it does.

I know I have the option of telling him to like it or lump it but...

My father is quite elderly and I really don't want him leaving this world hating me for something I have no control of.

Jim

I'm sorry for this trouble sir.

Solomon asked, Can a man touch fire and not be burned?

This is a burn that will never go away, for the rest of your life.
Your father may be upset and want to pretend it never happened, but it did.

Yes, it is wise to vent here. First, I am sorry you are dealing with this.

Does your father believe in the "forgive and forget" stuff? Does he understand No Contact is forever and why you still need NC?

Do what you can to make peace with your dad, reassuring him of your continued love and care, without backing down on the all-essential NC.

SO GLAD to hear that you and W are doing well.

x 2

and hola!

I'd let your dad know you are considering ending your relationship with him. Because even though you don't want to - that's where it's headed and I would warn him of that. I'd make it very clear that this is the worst pain you ever went through and he is the only person who keeps trying to make that pain fresh.

You won't be able to withstand a relationship constantly thinking 'When is he going to do it again?' - so tell him you need an assurance it won't. I think his next step will be to get you all together without any warning so he needs to know there will be a consequence if he keeps pushing.

Don't make the mistake of thinking he doesn't get it. He does. People who have never been through this usually have a very natural horror and disgust. It is telling that he does not empathise.

You said in an early post he wasn't around much because of working long hours. In your latest post you mention a lady friend, so he isn't still with your mother. May I ask how things ended between your parents? I just find his laissez faire attitude to adultery something of a red flag.

I don't think you have anything to lose by drawing a hard line here. The relationship is only just limping along anyway.