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Then is the killing of an abortion doctor the same as killing someone who you is in the act of killing another person?? I know not legalistically, but morally??
If abortion is INDEED murder, then logically, there is NO DIFFERENCE. But, can anyone REALLY say there is no difference??
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Yes, I can say that there is no difference. I do not condone any type of murder...but to me, there is no difference. Just as there are non violent solutions to the problems facing mothers that seek abortion, there are also non-violent solutions to the abortion issue.
But morally, I see no difference except that in the case of the doctor, they are NOT an innocent....the baby is.
Last edited by medc; 08/17/08 11:29 AM.
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Where it wishes to do the work of God, it becomes not divine, but demonic. Yeah? This is what it's been for the last 8 years. Charlotte
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T&L: I, Susan Kahrs of California (Burson, to be precise), am of the personal opinion that your post basically provided substantial documentation for my earlier post a day or so ago, and I thank you for it. Were you referring to your comment about LIBERALS being more EMOTIONAL and not stating FACTS..or something like that? BTW, I have difficulty with folks putting others into certain categories like LIBERAL vs. CONSERVATIVE. I'm LIBERAL on some issues and CONSERVATIVE on others. So what does that make someone like ME..ANTYWAYS... I have a question for you... Come on...George Bush versus Al Gore. George Bush had NO EXPERIENCE whatsoever especially in comparison to Gore, yet, now, McCain v Obama...experience matters. This is what Mr. W. stated. What are the FACTS regarding this? George Bush's EXPERIENCE vs. AL GORE'S????
I made it happen..a joyful life..filled with peace, contentment, happiness and fabulocity.
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IMO, LAST NIGHT, John McCain came off as being more CHARISMATIC than OBAMA...
BTW, John McCain stated that his greatest moral failure was the "FAILURE of his FIRST MARRIAGE"...an error of OMISSION????
I made it happen..a joyful life..filled with peace, contentment, happiness and fabulocity.
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This little Hitler attack against Obama is actually a recycled Republican smear tactic. The Bush political machine used it AGAINST McCain in the primaries in 2000. McCain attacks Christians Susan...I'm not annonymous TO YOU and out of respect for your post earlier I intentionally left my insults as ______ because the actual words ARE irrelevant to the discussion. My opinion of someone's political opinions have little to no relevance to my personal opinion of persons. The fact that I find it supercilious that people that supported Bush and, in more than just "my opinion" but in fact...made a huge mistake with their past vote(s) now ridicule and rip Obama apart doesn't mean I don't have friends and family members that did and are doing just that. I do respect the debate but find it fruitless much like you do. Medc: "lilly-white"...OK. MEDC...you DID vote for Bush, right and you don't regret that vote....thus, no sense in me debating you until your political opinions mature. How can anyone debate with person that won't acknowledge their mistakes...as most Democrats have with Jimmy Carter (I wasn't old enough to vote then). I, myself, deeply regret my vote in 1988 for GB, Sr.. I had no idea how corrupt and baseless their family really is. Anyway...google searchs of interest Genghis Khan +make = 670,000 Genghis Khan +every = 429,000 Genghis Khan +day = 923,000 Genghis Khan +count = 183,000 Cherished: Thank you for your post. Sorry I confused you by making several statements about comments made by others on this thread without separating out such arguments/debate from my specific response to you. Someone earlier: As far as blacks voting for Obama en masse...so what? Catholics did it for Kennedy. However, years later, Kerry did not get near the support Kennedy received from the Catholic voters. Once Obama wins...race won't be such an important issue (whereas gender may). I still don't think the overwhelming black vote will come near to offsetting the white racist vote this November. It's going to still take many white democrat and independent voters showing up in November to propel Obama to victory. Mr. Wondering <- Grandchild of Greek immigrants whose father changed his own last name so as to not sound so "foreign" and whose future in-laws refused to grant approval for my parents wedding saying "Robins with Robins and Sparrows with Sparrows". His actions insulated ME from much such racism but it was unfortunate he felt he had to make such efforts. Consider some of the "Greek" bashing that Dukakis endured in the 1988 presidential campaign. This in no way compares to black/white racism but I'm not some liberal Ivy League Vanderbuilt type elitist which is how I take that "lilly-white" remark. I just believe the Democratic Party to be the more Christian party...they aim to serve the people and run our Gorvernment efficiently and effectively whereas the Republican party TENDS to serve THEMSELVES and their corporate constituency all the while giving Christians nothing more than lip service. IMO, "conservative" is the dirty word. "Conservatives" have a disdain for big government and thus have no ability nor motivation to manage what they hate. They can't seem to get over the FACT...we HAVE and NEED a big centralized government.
FBH(me)-51 FWW-49 (MrsWondering) DD19 DS 22 Dday-2005-Recovered
"agree to disagree" = Used when one wants to reject the objective reality of the situation and hopefully replace it with their own.
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Good Giggly Wiggly!!! I take a little time out to watch our dd8 and my mom play some Wii games and look what happens!!! I warn you all, I'm about to leave to see Journey to the Center of the Earth in 3D with them now, so Mr. W will yet again be left posting unattended!!!!!!!!!! Oh Lordy... Mrs. W
FWW ~ 47 ~ MeFBH ~ 50 ~ MrWonderingDD ~ 17 Dday ~ 2005 ~ Recovered
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This whole "Hitler" thing.... It's fear based marketing since Obama is different (skin color) it is an blantant attempt to play on this fear of something a little different. Instead of blantant racial remarks they are trying to stir the underlying racism in all of us...the fear of our differences. Sneeches come to mind. If this were true, what does it say about those on the left who made comparisons between GWB and Hitler? Did they do it b/c of "underlying racism" too? Or does underlying racism only apply to black candidates who are compared to Hitler? Come on...George Bush versus Al Gore. George Bush had NO EXPERIENCE whatsoever especially in comparison to Gore, yet, now, McCain v Obama...experience matters. I think it was a fair argument for the left to make that GWB had less experience than Gore did. Why is it not fair to point out that Obama has much less experience than any other candidate in recent history including GWB? Or even Dan Quail? There is not a doubt in my mind that this country would be better off today if Gore had won the election in 2000 and anyone that fails to acknowledge that today in hindsight is a _______ (insert insult here). I don't acknowledge it. IMO, the left used Alinsky's rules very effectively when they choose GWB as their target to freeze, polarize and personalize. I regret the GWB didn't appeal to the American people more... the way Ronald Reagan did when he was attacked by the left. But, what's done is done. There is not one doubt in my mind that history will be very good to GWB. And it's ok w/ me if you (or anyone else) disagrees w/ me.
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I'm glad you watched it, Mimi. For those of you who missed it, CNN will be rerunning it tonight. IMO, LAST NIGHT, John McCain came off as being more CHARISMATIC than OBAMA... I didn't see charisma, as much as I saw McCain as having lived a bigger life than Obama. BTW, John McCain stated that his greatest moral failure was the "FAILURE of his FIRST MARRIAGE"...an error of OMISSION???? I didn't really see it that way. Everyone knows what he was talking about. Besides, McCain could have chosen a different subject to mention. I'm still not sure I can vote for McCain, but I'm getting warmer. Especially after FH's rebuke.
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Sorry But voting for your someone BECAUSE they are your OWN color and NOT voting for someone because they are a DIFFERENT COLOR is
EXACTLY THE SAME THING. VOTING BASED ON RACE. RACISM. There is no other way around it.
What is the difference between a WHITE person voting for a WHITE candidate STRICKLY because they are white, or a black person voting for a BLACK candidate simply because they are black? ANSWER: NONE.
Or same religion, or same nationality, etc. etc. etc. I will say that 90% of the black people voting for obama is NO different than the Catholics who voted for Kennedy or the Italians in my state voting for Italians time and time again, only to be burnt over and over again. Voting based on skin, nationality, or sex is just stupid as he**. It most certainly NOT "so what".
At least with religion, it is SUPPOSED to be based on similar beliefs (but, doesn't always work out that way, just see Kennedy)
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What is the difference between a WHITE person voting for a WHITE candidate STRICKLY because they are white, or a black person voting for a BLACK candidate simply because they are black? ANSWER: NONE. BOTH of these things will happen during this election...I agree..STUPID and IGNORANT..
I made it happen..a joyful life..filled with peace, contentment, happiness and fabulocity.
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Democrats more CHRISTIAN?? How in Gods name does THAT make sense. BOTH PARTIES have CHRISTIAN aspects and NON CHRISTIAN ASPECTS. But to state dems are MORE christian simply backs the arguement that dems are more EMOTIONAL when it comes to topics. Geeez.....
Is abortion more christian? Is gay marriage more christian? Is striking God from school. Is banning prayer more christian? Is backing the teaching of evolution more christian? Is handing out condomes more christian? Is going to war, something REPUBLICANS have a rep for, more christian, dems have HISTORICALLY been as at EASE with war as Republicans have.
I can go on and on and on. Now, I know that Republicans behave in many anti Christian ways also, so if someone lists them, I won't be surprised.
But, the IDEA that dems behave in a more CHristian manner is just silly.
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Medc: "lilly-white"...OK. MEDC...you DID vote for Bush, right and you don't regret that vote.... not a mistake because I would NEVER vote for a candidate that supports the butchering of God's babies. More babies are killed in a month than all casualties of the Iraq war for year after year. in more than just "my opinion" but in fact... LMAO...yeah, it would have been better to vote for a man that thinks slaughtering(literally dissecting them) children should be a "choice." Very sad. no sense in me debating you until your political opinions mature. yeah, MY opinions should mature to the point where they are hypocritical(against my Christian beliefs). They should reach the point where I believe that the butchering of a defenseless child is acceptable. Sick! Perhaps it is time for you to stop using typical lawyer double speak and address the real issues on the table.
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Yes, I can say that there is no difference. I do not condone any type of murder...but to me, there is no difference. Just as there are non violent solutions to the problems facing mothers that seek abortion, there are also non-violent solutions to the abortion issue.
But morally, I see no difference except that in the case of the doctor, they are NOT an innocent....the baby is. Thats good. Consistent. But, we differ in one way. Killing someone else in order to protect innocents is NOT murder, IMO, morally at least, legally, its whatever the law says it is. This abortion issue is a nightmare. That post about Obama not seeing something wrong with protecting a BORN child is yet another instance of poor judgement, in this case, heartless judgement.
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But, the IDEA that dems behave in a more CHristian manner is just silly. You think! Of course it is silly. I am certain that I would NOT want to be slaughtering a child of God when Christ shows up again. GWB walked into a hornets nest with 9/11. History will judge him kindly on many things...others not so much. But one day...and hopefully soon, ALL will judge the slaughter of children...supported by a hidden racist agenda of democrats...to be a horrible smear on our collective history. One day black America will wake up to the reality that democrats keep them poor and dependant so that they maintain a control over their votes. One day black America will wake up and see how many of their children have been slaughtered due to the racist ways of the planned parenthood (read Democrat) crowd.
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Killing someone else in order to protect innocents is NOT murder I agree. My cop background is coming out though and I tend to use the legal definition of potentially criminal acts. Since it is defined as murder by law..I tend to go there. I agree with you morally though. I think the world would be a much better place if every single doctor out there chose to not do abortions...I would hope because of their morals...but if it is fear that stops them...so be it. If abortion were made illegal and I was a cop, I would have zero problem with "taking out" a person attempting to kill a baby. Zero. The Golden Rule Defense
The most penetrating Scripture with which to conclude our examination of the duty to defend the unborn is the Second Great Commandment. Christ committed the unborn into your care when He commanded you to love your neighbor as yourself, and applied this teaching in the story of the Good Samaritan. This story teaches that the command to love your neighbor as yourself extends to all your fellow men, especially those in need.
If your limbs were about to be torn from your body, would you defend yourself? If you couldn't, would you want someone else to? The Golden Rule teaches us to put ourselves in the place of others, so as to experience their feelings, and then to act in their behalf. If you were scheduled to be aborted, who would you rather have between you and the abortionist: someone who would intervene with the means necessary to save your life, or someone who, for whatever reason, would not take the action necessary to protect you? If you would want someone to defend you with the immediate means necessary, Christ's teachings require that you do the same for the unborn (according to your abilities and calling in life).
Don't deceive yourself; these children are your responsibility. Christ committed them into your care in the Second Great Commandment. Open your heart to them, spread your blanket over them, and own them as your own. Most of these children have been rejected by their parents; won't you adopt them as your own? Surely there is room in your heart for them.
Will you suffer when they suffer? Will you recoil as they do from the instruments used to dismember them? Rather than standing by as they are put to death, shouldn't we fight and kick for their lives as they do for their own?
Jesus said: “Greater love has no one than this, that one lay down his life for his friends” (John 15:13). If we truly love our unborn neighbors, shouldn't we at least be willing to assert the duty to defend them?
On July 29, 1994, Dr. Ronald E. Graeser, the County Medical Examiner in Fremont, Michigan heard, with the rest of the nation, of my shooting Dr. Britton and his two escorts in Pensacola. Later that day, and in the days that followed, many Christians scrambled to save their reputations and ministries by denouncing the shootings. But Dr. Graeser risked his reputation, and possibly his livelihood, by signing a statement justifying what I had done. Dr. Graeser was not independently wealthy; he had college-aged children and a public position as a medical examiner. Some might say he threw it all away by justifying my actions.
News cameramen soon appeared at his doorstep, and thousands of television viewers saw Dr. Graeser uphold the duty to defend the unborn. This eventually resulted in his finding a new and better job, and joy unspeakable. We don't know how his stand affected everyone, but we do know how it affected one expectant mother who was planning to abort. She changed her mind. Dr. Graeser lost it all, and in doing so, he found it.
No one else was in a position to do as he did. Neither is anyone else in a position to do as you can. But everyone with a reputation, job, or family has been given that life that he might lose it.
Will you lose your life for Christ's little ones? If so, on that day, you will hear Him say, “Come, you who are blessed of My Father. . . Truly I say to you, to the extent that you did it to one of these brothers of Mine, even the least of them, you did it to Me.” Not everyone should take up arms, but if you believe that abortion is lethal force, you should uphold the force needed to stop it Paul Hill..published after his execution for killing an abortion "doctor." Hero.
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Folks, the mods are paying close attention to this thread which is verging on being locked.
Please feel free to share your opinions respectfully.
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I think the world would be a much better place if every single doctor out there chose to not do abortions...I would hope because of their morals...but if it is fear that stops them...so be it. "Do no harm..." Forget the Hypocratic Oath...whenever it's convenient. And what's more convenient that "making money?" One more time, though I am personally against the taking of one life for the benefit of someone else, I would favor a ban against all abortion EXCEPT for some very narrow "extenuating circumstances" (e.g., rape and incest) and eliminate all "abortion on demand simply because the mother wants one." Millions slaughtered by the Third Reich. How many millions of completely innocent babies have been slaughtered by the "Land of the Free and the Home of the Brave" just because the baby was "inconvenient?" Oh ya, I forgot. Sex is a right, but taking a life that results from the exercise of that right is just another form of "birth control." "Big government" control again. Can't wait to see what the proponents of Nationalized Healthcare have up their agendas next. And did I also forget that GUNS, not people, KILL? Jack Kennedy? Two words...Marilyn Monroe. Whoever said that the Democrat party is the more "Christian" Party MUST have meant to say the "more LIBERAL Christian party" I guess. It isn't about what "party" is more "Christian" than the next. It is about Conservative Values versus Liberal Values and how each set of values supports or undermines the Constitution, not the "changes" that a candidate wants to make because he doesn't like the Constitutional responsibilities that are entrusted to those who are sworn to protect and defend THAT Constitution for all Americans. And that includes the Liberal idea of "legislating from the Bench."
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I'm sorry, mods...but, where is disrespect here? I haven't seen any personal attacks, have I missed it?
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