Genius... thanks for the chuckles!

RWW

Thank you for taking the time to send some encouragement.

Being here on MB and receiving 'real life' advice and help I feel, for the first time in months, truly hopeful about my situation.

Whenifever,

You said
AS I said before, congratulations. Would you do me a favor now Whenifever, would you please go back and read this whole thread again. I think you will see things a little differently this time.

You also said
Excellent idea. pLease realize that it takes time to remove the triggers from your head as it will for your H to do the same.

God Bless,

JL

Hi JL

Thank you.

I re-read my thread and was amazed to see how far I had come in my thought process in such a relatively short space of time. Is this what you wanted me to see?

I am now acutely aware of the affair, for some reason. I am acutely aware to my core. Not sure why this is. I don't think it has been dealt with somehow. I think there are feelings we have both buried (lumpy rug and elephant in the room) that need to come up... ugh! I just feel that there is lots to be said. I know, counseling, counseling

'Remove' triggers - how do you do that?

Whenifever,

What I hoped you would see and I think you do see, is that there really is hope. That people have been trying to tell you in their own way that there is hope and that the information here really does work. It is a process, not a quick cure.

I think you are also starting to see that simply changing perspective is a huge thing in a marriage. You cannot change who you are at your core, neither can your H, but actually from what you have said I don't think you need to.

We all see things through our own filters, and filters can be changed. Your FOO issues have affected your filters more than perhaps you realized, but as you read, learn, and explore you will see things differently.

You really don't understand how happy I and others here are that you have perservered and did have SF with your H. I know this was a big step. I have sooooo many thoughts and ideas for you that I would probably swamp you.

But, let me offer you a story to consider. I had two aunts. One was rather wealthy, but never had children. Some said she had a "difficult" personality and she did in fact cause more than a few disagreements in the family with her meddling. The other aunt was divorced, but close to a Saint on earth. She had children, grandchildren and now great grandchildren, and she is simply loved by all. In any event the wealthy Aunt was not in great health but she wanted to give her sister some money to ease her situation. The poor Aunt did not want to take it. She was getting by and she did not feel good accepting the money. She and I had a long talk, sort of like this story, and I explained to her that often the best gift we can give someone is to "accept a gift from them". My wealthy Aunt really felt as if she needed to do some good, and if my other Aunt had not accepted her gift, she could not feel she helped.

My Aunt accepted the money. It made the wealthy Aunts day. she died within a month of doing this. To this day my surviving Aunt is glad she accepted the gift.

What is the message in this long story??? Some times we GIVE when we ACCEPT GIFTS. You have been unwilling to accept your H's physical love, not seeing it as a gift. As you come to see the gift involved with this, you will see him differently. As you learn to give, you will change how he sees you. You say, but he already loves me. Yes he does, but his love is a VERB, an action. What you will give him is the feelings of being loved. There is a huge difference.

Will you really change? No! Will he change? No! Can you love one another deeply? Yes you can as you change perspectives and you learn how to really give and take.

You also said
Yes, talking to your H about your new feelings is good. Talking to him about the changes you WANT to make will help. Talking to him about what you want to give him will help. But, here is something you might not realize. Ask him, what he fears, what tears at his heart, what he desires more than anything. Ask him, and then just sit there, not try to help him answer, do not clarify, just sit there until he answers. It will probably not be coherent, but just listen, do not judge. I think you will be surprised.

I will say this your awareness of the A,is a good thing. I think it means you are finally starting to tear down your walls. You have had walls in your marriage for many many years, and brick by brick they are starting to loosen and come down. You are doing good work. Ask your H for help. Ask him to listen to you every now and then when you need to things off of your chest. Ask him to NOT solve the problem for you, but let you simply talk about it.

And Yes counseling with a pro-marriage counselor would be good. The triggers remove themselves with time. You will never forget what you did, but the feelings associated with them will disconnect. The same is true with your H.

I think you are really starting to get how this stuff works. As you go on you will receive new insights about yourself, your H, and your marriage. I think you will be pleasantly surprised.

God Bless,

JL

[

Wow JL,

This morning as I was running around doing the usual, I couldn't stop thinking of my recent hip surgeries. I couldn't help but think of my H and how he could not do enough to help me. It drove me bananas! I'm 'self sufficient', I 'help myself'. I don't ask for help. It took a lot for me to let him help me then. He wanted so much to help. I realized he was happy helping me because then he could be of use to me (the person who is always seemingly so strong and doesn't want help or to be weak). He was happy to be needed and relieved to have me lean on him. Then, I read your post!

So I'm thinking, obviously, I need to get something here. Yet again it is coming home to me that it is about giving. He never saw looking after me as a chore. He was able to show love to me when I allowed him to help. He was able to feel needed and accepted by me in return.

I can't believe I've only just got it - I've only just got it!! So I am now seeing how love is giving and giving is love. It is what I have been needing to do all along.

I am feeling rather raw and emotional about this stuff. I'm not emotional but the steps I've been taking are having that effect on me. It's not just trying to problem solve in my head anymore (I'm good at that). Then you go and say "I think it means you are finally starting to tear down your walls" , oh gosh. Feelings, feelings, feelings.

The affair - it feels painful to me now. I never 'felt' what a gross thing I did to my H. I knew it was dead wrong, I knew the fear of the mess I created but I never felt how bad it was. How totally unloving. I think there is a lot I don't feel.

I will share with my H. I'm apprehensive to talk about it and dredge it up again but it think it's the only way forward. I don't know how to articulate what I want to say except 'sorry, sorry, sorry and 'I want to love you with my whole heart'.

Whenifever,

You said
If you do as you say, you will NOT be dredging it up again, you will finally be talking about what you have learned. About what your goals are in this marriage. About what you are now feeling that you did not before. I suspect your H will become very emotional, but I also suspect he will be glad to hear that you are in fact finally truly sorry.

You are now starting to see why alot of the articles and items on this site seem so simple, but they are not easy. That is because human relations are very subtle and nonlinear. They often don't succumb to linear problem solving, and yet it seems soooo simple. Puzzling isn't it?

God Bless,

JL

What a great success story. You give us all hope!

CONGRATULATIONS NOWISTHEMOMENT (formerly whenifever)


Your husband does sound like he loves you more than you know. So you can show him appreciation for what he does. And remember FAKE IT TILL YOU MAKE IT. You are seeing that by behaving and acting like things are the way you want them to be the feelings will eventually follow.

Do yourself and your husband a favour. You need to give yourself to him. Physically. I am not an expert, but I am a man, and when a woman offers herself, that has an amazing impact on our self worth and self image.

He participated very enthusiastically when you had sex. No kidding. Do yourself a favour and wear him out. This will help him deal with the affair. You will show him in a tangible way that he is worthy. And do not wear him out just once. You need to reinforce his ego regularly and wear him out. Ask him, flirt with him, encourage him, tell him what you like and want. Tell him how much you enjoyed the weekend and you hope he still has some energy left for tonight, and tomorrow night..... Build him up.

Keep pursuing him in this area until he has to ask you for a break. I have a hunch you may unlock a different side of him. If you want something different and exciting, TELL HIM. You already know he wants to please and help you. This is how he gets affirmation. Affirm him as a man, and you both become winners. It is very important at this time you help him to feel like a man.

It sounds like you are well on your way to healing your marriage.
I am happy for you. Keep up the good work.

God Bless you and your husband.

So, I finally heard the words this morning.... my H said "you have worn me out"! I have NEVER heard that before.... he is very happy. Thanks you guys for helping me with that. bcboy your comments were invaluable and have helped me to stay looking at things from HIS perspective.

My H said too that something has shifted in me that is very tangible. He said he hopes that I am having the changes in my heart and not just trying to work at it again but not feel it. Interesting, as I have discovered something too. As soon as I look at sex from my old mindset of 'just get over with' or 'I don't feel good about this, I don't like this and I don't like that him', then my negative emotions surface within seconds. I feel it in my body and I just want to be out of there. If, however, as I have been doing, look at sex purely from 'giving to him to show him love and make him feel good' it changes everything. How can this be? It's amazing to me this fundamental change. Yes, I keep waiting for it to fail.

The only other thing too is that I find it difficult to dialogue so much how I feel. My H expresses how he feels in every way, through words and touch. I, on the other hand, feel odd to say things - it still feels somewhat disconnected for me. So, herein lies more work I guess. Tapping into those verbal expressions could well take some time.

Also when we have in our intimate time together it has inevitably led to us talking about feelings, hurts and the past . I feel so bad about the 'wasted' years, affair etc and he gets really rather tearful. We need still need help with that. Unravelling that. We haven't arranged MC yet but he's in no rush?! Guess there's no avoiding it really.

Nowisthemoment!

I am so glad!

You know what I'd do? I'd tell him exactly what you said here, about having trouble expressing yourself, and ASK him to help you! What greater gift can you give him than inviting him into your private universe and asking for his attention and affection to let you two get closer?

This is not a complaint. This is a tremendous, fabulous compliment to you and an admission that you are satisfying him by building him up. WELL DONE. So when you "FAKE IT TILL YOU MAKE IT" you are finding out new things. Keep it up. You have only just begun. Keep after him, the job is not over, you have done an excellent job. He is telling you how much he appreciates it. The platform is being built. This momentum will carry you a long way until you have the opportunity to deal with the root issues with professional help.

This phase as encouraging as it is is just a band aid, temporary help. However it sounds to me like you have a situation that is totally fixable. But do not let this temporary success prevent you from getting professional help. You have some issues to deal with yet.


This does not have to fail. You are in complete control of this. It is only a thought away. Drudery or service, thinking of the joy of sacrifice. Are we not taught that love is sacrifice? Did we not learn that agape love is "to choose to do the highest good for someone else without any expected return?" Are you not learning what agape love is and are you not being rewarded for that? It sounds to me you clearly are. This is a miraculous transformation in your relationship. Just imagine how good things can get as you are learing how to turn things around.

I am soooooo happy for you. Keep away from that stinky thinking (you know the root of that). Keep thinking positively.

I am laughing to myself as I can just imagine what your husband is thinking. I imagine it is something like "WOW, WOOOOWWWW, Wowweeee, Wohooo zowie, Yep she likes me, Man I love her, I feel like such a man, and she makes me feel so good about myself, 'I knew being a nice guy and loving her would pay off in the long run'"

So keep him happy, and get your satisfaction from knowing you are doing the right thing for both of you.

I am so proud of how you have taken such a difficult situation, and taken some incredibly difficult steps (for you) and made such incredible improvements. This shows you have a depth of character that will serve you well in your life. This is a real success story and you should be proud of how your actions have born such fruit in such a short time.


It is healthy that you feel bad. Let it happen. Remorse is healing. Let your remorse show to your husband as it will draw you both closer in your need. Yes you have wasted time, but it can be positive if you learn from your mistakes, remember the Prodical son?

You do need MC, This is just a temporary win. There will be many more wins but you need help



Do not get discouraged NOWISTHEMOMENT, with the minor setbacks that will eventually come. You have proven you have the moxie to overcome adversity. WELL DONE.

May God continue to walk with you through the rebuilding of your marriage.

Nowisthemoment,

Let me ask you something. How do you feel when you see things through these new filters? Are you feeling good that you are bring happiness to another human being? Are you feeling good that another human being is so happy to be with you? Are you allowing him to show you HIS LOVE for you? Are you enjoying this receiving of love?

The genie is out of the bottle, it won't go back. You have seen the power of perspective and it is within YOU. As for the affair and working on it, yes it needs to be addressed. But, you are starting to see things differently and therefore what you might have done or not done in the past is going to change. Keep enjoying your life, but talk with your H. You two will need a plan to fully recover from the A, but more importantly to protect the marriage from an future A's on the part of yourself or your H.

God Bless,

JL

Nowisthemoment

I am not sure why I feel such a burden to keep track of your post but I keep getting the desire to encourage you. I am also inspired by the wisdom and care that other members of this forum, the ones who have many posts, who genuinly care about you and your family.


This is so important that you grasp this IMO. I think this is where we start to encounter our core beliefs. Do we believe that life is just a random series of events with no purpose, we are born, breath, eat then die? Or is there something more? Is it possible there is something greater? I believe there is something greater. I also believe that we will be refined by fire, like pure gold. That fire is the problems, challenges, and trials we face in life. It is those moments where we learn. If our life has a purpose and if there is something greater, then how are we shaped?

This may be your life changing event. This may be the MOMENT where God is trying to get your attention. In Gods gentle thunder Max Lucado tells us that God will do anything to get our attention. I believe there is something far greater in store for you, but you had to change the direction you are going. This is where discipline and patience become your allies. By giving you will recieve.

I have just been reading some interesting articles on how to change our perspective.

1) Be grateful (In everything give thanks)
2) Every day find something you are thankful for about your loved one (in your case your Husband) and tell him. Remind yourself throughout the day of how you are thankful for "that thing" about your husband
3) Pray your eyes be opened and your heart be healed.

No one here has all the answers. We are all at different places in the journey of life. You have been courageous to reach out for help. And look how many people have reached out to you, are cheering you on, wanting you to succeed. There are those who have seen what you have not. Keep reading their posts, there is some great encouragement there for you.

Isn't it wonderful to find a place like this, where perfect strangers, whom you will likely never meet, can demonstrate so much care and concern for you in your need. Love is a powerful thing and can take many shapes, I pray you recieve the love you need, and in such abundance that it flows through you and your family.

You are not alone in your struggle. We all struggle. We will never be perfect, but we can be loved. There comes a time when the love we need, and crave can no longer be dealt with in an academic manner. We need to experience that love, we need to seek the source of love and forgiveness and allow it to wash us clean. Acceptable to all, loved unconditionally, forgiven , despite our imperfections, insecurities, weaknesses and failures. Sometimes there are things that need to change so we can experience that love.


Just Learning was spot on about perspective. It spoke loudly to me. IMO problems are allowed to happen to us so we are motivated to seek, to learn, to change.

So are you really at the end or are you at the beginning?

Take care of yourself NOWISTHEMOMENT.

JL

Have been out of town but it was good to get back and receive your encouragement. I feel like the questions stop and life is 'light' when I look through these new filters. I am happy to bring happiness to my H - it feels so much better just giving to give. There is a release in that. It is much harder for me to receive his love. I don't really gush back or anything - I still feel pretty speechless. I simply just quietly accept it (if you see what I mean). I do have some part of me that doesn't want him to get 'carried away' by it all. I'm not sure where that is from.

We have tried talking about the A but my H gets tearful and tells me how much he loves me and at one time thought we'd never grow old together. I then shut up and wonder if it's worth it.

Nowisthemoment ...... lol!

bcboy

This forum feels like my lifeline right now. I am beyond grateful to you, JL, Catperson and others for taking the time to respond to me. The encouragement/direction is needed and appreciated.

Just throwing my thoughts out here;

In a lot of ways - I do feel that this is my "life changing event" - if I get through this I can get through anything. "This is where discipline and patience become your allies" - interesting because the voice in my head is relentless. Despite the positive outcome of giving - my instinct is to complicate it and I tell myself it can't work! Still!! I guess it does take time - "discipline and patience". I am a rather 'formula' driven type person. I will work hard, harder and hardest to get results but I want the changes to be in my heart and not in my head. I want a heart and life change for marriage.

I am conscious of trying to practice points 1) and 2). I am, however, struck by number 3) "Pray your eyes be opened and your heart be healed". It's been a while since I have really prayed. I will make it my daily mantra.

Nowisthemoment

I'm so happy for your progress! I have two suggestions.

First, the way you deal with things, your tendencies to want things a certain way, to react a certain way...all that is FOO stuff (what you learned growing up as coping skills). I'm reading a book called Emotional Alchemy and it says that your brain 'affirms' those actions that get you what you need, and the synapse in your brain that connects the need and the action gets strengthened every time you use it, like a muscle, so that after awhile, it's the first one used when a 'need' comes up even in adult life, because it's the strongest. So what got you what you need as a child (throwing a fit, being pessimistic so as not to be disappointed, not getting noticed, showing off, etc.) may be your first instinct now because of the stronger synapse, but it may not be a good way to deal with issues as an adult. So what you have to do is practice "mindfulness." It's really awesome. Basically, you watch yourself from outside your body, if you will, and redirect your impulses to new, healthier reactions, so that THOSE new actions will be strengthened and become the first thing you 'reach' for. I guess that's where Fake It Til You Make It comes in.

Second, if you're considering praying, I'd like to suggest that you take this opportunity to read up on various religions, and find some that actually align with your belief system, and then go visit some, to see what you're really comfortable with, which one makes you feel like you're 'home' if you will. Just because you were raised in one denomination doesn't mean you have to stay in that one. For instance, my D17 wants to question things more, so I suggested that we try out the Unitarian Universalist church, because that's their bailiwick.

Catperson

Wow, I've never really heard it in that way before. It rings so true to me. My thoughts, emotions are in such a die-hard groove everything automatically goes a certain way in my head and my emotions reinforce it. It really is my strongest coping mechanism. I had to work things out for myself the whole time and and have since learned a lot of it was so off! Complete with religion?!? I am trying to 'be present' in my life so I guess mindfulness is similar to this. It is SO challenging to me to change my internal dialogue and what's more, believe it!

I'm glad you said what you did about religion. I do have an aversion to praying to the God of my youth - Christianity. I just don't feel He ever really answered me. Or showed up for me. However, I do believe in a Higher Power, the Universe. Something bigger than myself that is more of a guide. I get what you are saying and agree. Thanks

Nowisthemoment
Good for you. You need to be healed and you are well on your way.

It seems we never stop learning in this life. I too have been learning through my own marital breakdown. It is a roller coaster ride of emotions. Reality gets distorted, and relying on emotions to provide the direction for our lives places us in a very precarious place.

How do we get answers when so much of our life seems out of our control? I remember a wise friend of mine said to me once when I was in a particularly troubling time in my life. "This is the time we must be still, ask, and listen". The very last thing I wanted to do was be still. I was facing some very difficult issues and I wanted to do something to make it better. The only problem was it was out of my control. I had to employ patience and discipline. Give things time.

You have come a long way. I am proud of you. You have listened and acted. And you are reaping the fruit of your efforts. Initially you didn't feel like doing what you did, but you acted, and things changed.

Absolutely you need to get to the core issues that are causing you to feel the way you do. It is important you get appropriate counselling.


I agree this is your life changing event. You stand at the crossroad of your life. The decisions you make now will not only impact you, but also your family. I am confident you will make the right choices.

You are also correct - You can get through anything.

Prayer will help you. God does answer prayer (Often not how we want him to but they do get answered). When we are desparate, when we are broken, Gods love will shine through. We just need to be still. Make no mistake, you are loved more than you can fathom. It is my prayer for you that you can recieve that love.


This is a very fine example of STINKY THINKING. You have control over this. When this happens you just tell your brain that you no longer allow it the luxury of thinking this way and it will have to stop right now. Then you give your brain something positive to think about like how thankful you are for ( how much you are loved by your family, how you have been given a second chance, how you have access to forgiveness, how you don't have to be perfect, that your husband is crazy about you, that you are getting better every day etc.....)


I want to thank you. Thank you for sharing so openly and honestly. I have learned things about my own situation, by having the opportunity to dialogue with you through this. I get the sense that at your core you are a very good person. You just got sidetracked temporarily. We all do. But you had the tenacity to do something about it. Well done.

1)Get the help you need.
2)Keep loving your husband. Recieve the love he has for you.
3)When you think he is "getting in your face" refrain from letting this scare you or put you off. This is his enthusiasm shining through. Change your response to throwing your arms around him and tell him how thankful you are that he loves you unconditionally. (Because it sounds to me like he does). (And it sounds to me you like you are getting better at accepting it) And you need to loosen up and quit taking things too seriously.(I am talking to myself here too as I see we both have a similar tendency, funny thought it is easier to spot it in other people while I am blinded to my own weaknesses)

Nowisthemoment, I have only one request of you. Do not allow yourself to become discouraged (discipline) and never give up (patience).

May God Bless you and your family.

PS I look forward to hearing how you are doing. Keep us informed of your progress, it is encouraging to hear from you.

bcboy

As for STINKY THINKING....... came across this quote today...

by Byron Katie

"I discovered that when I believed my thoughts, I suffered, but that when I didn't believe them I didn't suffer, and that this is true for every human being. Freedom is as simple as that. I found that suffering is optional. I found joy within me that has never disappeared, not for a single moment. That joy is in everyone, always.".

WOW! There it is again, the simplicity of it all.

Thanks for your input bcboy, Catperson. Working on rediscovering my joy. Having to hold on to what has been shared with me - grumpy today - what's up with that?! Still not giving up....