I'm so not the one to give you advice here, like I said, but I don't think enough enough good has taken place yet to offset the bad. Just a hunch.
What if he came back and was not excited to see you at all?

(BTW, I think it's great that you can go into that inside place.....it's coming out of it that is tricky)

PNM,

Interesting - I don't know what I'd be like - I would ask him if he was okay and if he said he was I would just shrug it off. My relationship seems so out of balance.

From your perspective (which is a little similar to my H, and if nothing else - male). I feel I have always been the one to say I am not happy in the marriage. I don't want to sound like a broken record telling him what is not working for me.

I guess there's no way around it.

Why the heck is he so happy to be with me?

PNM

Just read your marriage counseling post. Sounds good. Hope to get any hints and tips from you/your thread myself......

SAA - Surviving an Affair. It's available on the site.

It's hard to remain connected when things like this get in the way of your 15 hours of UA time. Cause and effect. I think you may well feel different in a day or two.

Thanks EO

Have read a little while ago now, Surviving Infidelity by Rona Subotnik and Gloria Harris. In addition, Getting Back Together, How to Reconcile with your Partner - and make it last by Bettie Youngs and Masa Goetz.

I will get the SAA you mentioned.

15 hours per week? I need to get him on the same page about that - we never do that.

Nowis,

You asked
I hate to admit this but your question got me laughing. Alright, I am under control again.

Short answer to your question: Because he wants to be.

It really is that simple.

Longer answer because he see things in you, that you don't see in yourself. He sees you in an entirely different light because he has chosen to dwell on your attributes rather than your failures, which in all honesty I must say are significant.

I could launch into a long discussion about how us guys see things differently than women do, but right now here is something else I am curious about.

Do YOU make yourself happy? Do you see the good in you, the human in you? Are you happy with your behavior and now the changes you have made? Do you enjoy company? Do you enjoy someone with you, or do you withdraw into yourself and simply evaluate as if you have no role in the events unfolding around you.

Do you realize that if you met your H at the door, hugged him, kissed him, and told him you are looking forward to being with him (not necessarily that you missed him), that you would change your future? Do you realize that? It may not change your future with respect to wealth, or even health (although it might be argued), but it would definitely change that night. It would change your H, it would change you.

You don't seem to understand the POWER you have to change your own life via your actions toward other people. Your affair changed your life, you allowed that man to control you and it affected many people. You have the power to decide that you will enjoy your H, you will enjoy SF with him. You can tell him exactly what you want and need from him and he you. You can change any event simply with a touch or a smile. You might get addicted to smiles, touches and positive feedback if you ever let yourself.

You really don't understand a good marriage do you. Let me tell you a few things about me. I am in my 60's. I did not marry until my 30's. Marriage was a CHOICE. I had a very enjoyable batchelorhood. I did not need to marry, I had no burning desire to be a father. I was not opposed to it either. I dated models around the world. Yet, the woman I married was not a model. But, she was someone that offered things I needed if I were going to be married. I chose to marry her, as she chose to marry me. We have been married over 30 years because we make that decision to be. Is she perfect? No! Am I perfect? No! Are all of my needs met when I need them met? No!

I came here because I felt I had simply become a paycheck. I traveled alot in those days and when I came home I would often hear "What are you doing here? You are messing up my schedule." I was not a happy camper. I found this site and started to read, and learn, and read some more, and I learned how to change my marriage. It started with me changing my perspective on many things, and that required that I evaluate myself first and foremost.

I sit here and wonder. She has a man that his happy to see her, wants to be with her, even will forgive an affair where he has been judged to be inferior to the OM. He is a better man than I, and he is a better man than you seem to realize. He must have some steel in his backbone and she cannot see it.

Nowis, your happiness is your choice. You can focus on his failures and your defenses of yourself, OR you can focus on his strengths, his gifts to you, and quit defending yourself. You can love if you will allow yourself to do so. You don't have to be deliriously in-love with your H. You do have to love him as in the verb or action and allow him to love you.

A good marriage is not a storybook series of good feelings. It is a long line of loving actions taken on your part and his part. He seems to be holding up his end but you cannot see it. When you finally allow yourself to see it, you are going to be surprised.


Your relationship is out of balance precisely for the reasons we have discussed before. Your giver and taker are out of balance. It is your job to rebalance it, not his. What is not working for you is for you to address not your H. He will follow your lead as you should be willing to follow his.

Start by understanding why he is happy to be with you. I think you will be surprised. Better yet ask him sometime. I will bet the answer will be sort of vague, just as men see beauty in women, that women themselves never recognize.

Please think about these things. You have far more power and control than you realize, which is why your barriers make so little sense.

God Bless,

JL

Althought I do not agree with physical abuse, how about a kick in the pants. Where is Melody Lane when you need her? I think you need to counter act your traditional mode of thinking to a new mode of thinking. This is your old way is it not? I admire you for working through these details piece by piece as this is constructive in building a new paradigm. I am not counsellor but I have had to reprogram myself in the past so here goes. How about trying this? How about working on the attitude of gratitude? So when you feel the independence creeping in you start being thankful and telling yourself how fortunate you are to be loved.

Wake up and smell the coffee there kiddo. You have a husband who is HAPPY, HAPPY to see you. He has given you a get out of jail free card. He is treating you with grace and respect and you are taking it for granted. Did I mention a kick in the backside? You have been treated well all your life by him and you think this is average behaviour. Let me tell you that it sounds to me like you have won the lottery but have not bothered to cash in your ticket. Do you have any idea how many husbands have to work hard to be like your husband? Do you have any clue how many wives complain that their husband is not like your husband. Give thanks, give thanks, give thanks. Remember the songs you sang in church. There is a reason for that. Those choruses have wisdom we need to operationalize in our lives. It is easy to sing or say but challenging to implement and incorporate into our lives as habits and reactions to issues we face.


So does this make it right? How do you plan on changing this? Do you think it happens by magic? No siree Bob. This is because IMHO that there is a disconnect on the value you place on him, appreciation and respect also comes in to play here. I don't know how but I think if you can focus on this you will be very glad when he comes through the door.

We had a babysitter ( a wonderful Italian gal about 22) who was wondering if she should marry her boyfriend. She had a history of dating real jerks, but this boyfriend was a real nice guy, smart, loyal, respectful, honorable, a real NICE guy. She was in real agony over the decision. I asked her if she was tired of dating jerks. She said yes absolutely. I said to her that I did not think so because she had the REAL DEAL asking to marry her and she sounded like she wanted to keep dating the losers. I encouraged her to not marry the guy and go out and get her fill of the jerks cause she still sounded unsure. You got married young, sounds like you missed out on the jerk filtration option. You ended up with a nice guy right out of the gate. Too bad. You don't have the terms of reference you may need at this time. If you ever change your mind though don't worry, there are plenty of jerks out there who would be more than happy to turn your world upside down; introduce sufficient chaos into your life that your head would spin; keep you in a perpetual state of anxiety wondering how you can pay the bills. Yep, perhaps you need a bad boy still?


So when will you be going to MC? You will need tools to deal with this.
Can you describe further what this agitation is (is this habitual stinky thinking)?
Do you know the triggers?
Do you find you get more agitated when your husband is away?
Do you have any female friends that can pray with you?
Do you have any support groups through your church?

When your husband is home are you in the habit of praying together every day? Knee to knee? We have friends of ours that were going through some difficult times in their marriage. This was a HUGE help for them. They bonded spiritually and emotionally through these 20 - 30 minute prayer sessions. Maybe it will help you?

Hey if you decide you don't want your husband anymore, let him go...set him free of you! He will find a woman who really loves him!

Glad I made you laugh - lost on me though.

Yes, I do make myself 'happy'. I know that I have to fulfill things for myself. I can't rely on other people to make myself happy. Although I dislike intensely feeling insignificant. Friendships mean a lot. I hate rejection in any form too. Your evaluation is pretty correct. I do like company but when insecure will detach to assess. I think it's an immature response but I've learned late in life, a lot of people's reactions and stuff is more about them, not about me. Didn't used to think that.

I did meet him with a big hug and a smile and he was happy. I just have to persevere. I know. Thanks for reinforcing this. I needed to hear it.

No, I don't understand what a good marriage is, I truly don't. I have no examples of one - never saw it in my own family. I don't see it around me either. Maybe because we don't really have any friends like us. We know a few marrieds but not well. We moved from the UK to the US 6 years ago and have not made any deep friendships with married people. I made friends with the mother of my eldest son's friend. I kind of fell apart on her one day which surprised her and, of course me, but was a godsend.

"Nowis, your happiness is your choice..........etc" I take this to heart. It's what I need to hear, I know. I really needed to hear it.

I wondered about whether I should talk to him about stuff but from what you are saying I should just keep working on me. Yes, it makes sense now that the imbalance I feel is my giver and taker. I just get lost in my agitation.

Why the frick this is so hard I don't know. I should get it by now shouldn't I but I don't. It's ridiculous. I know my barriers don't make sense. I feel a lot of them but I can't explain why.

Thanks JL, I needed the help.

Okay, I'm going to have to print this stuff off and read it everyday to help me.

The independence thing is a nowhere space. I shut down. I become insignificant. That's how I feel - nothing. However, it is a familiar feeling that sort of paralyses me. I know it's not good. It does invite poor thinking on bad days. I know where it comes from. I spent my childhood feeling it. In relation to my H - it's selfish I see. He needs for me to be present and I have to AND DID come out of that and be proactive and give that hug and show him how happy we were he was home. Being the giver right.

No bad boys necessary bc, honestly. I have some serious work to do on myself and my crappy habits and thinking. Maybe one day I'll be able to shout "I have it, I have that good marriage that everyone is talking about". Honestly, right now, am upset. Feels like 2 steps forward 4 steps back. I'll get over it though and get on with the work.

MC, perhaps next week if we choose to stay with the same lady. She's kind of 'namby pamby'. So, the search for someone else more switched on makes us sigh.

I think the agitation also comes from feeling disconnected with my H. After an intense fortnight - everything went back to feeling disconnected with him being away. Back to the old familiar feelings I'm afraid.

I have no female friends I can pray with. They are a mixed bag. Perhaps I need to find and join a support group. My best friend supports me but is very different to me. Other than that, I don't have anyone I can share with.

We don't pray together. That's a whole other topic.

Thanks for the kick in the pants and everything. I need the help and reminders and 'smell the coffee' - although it's not nice but necessary.

Stellakat - hopefully I won't have to. Watch this space!

Well now why did you not say something about being British at the beginning? I have many British friends and they have recieved councelling for being British, and they have made wonderful progress. Many have recovered from being British. In fact we caught one laughing the other day.

Have you been trained by the stiff upper lip crowd perhaps? Brits have successfully detached as a nation have they not? Isn't it the national past time, being dreary? Perhaps all you need is a good street brawl to cheer you up? No wonder you are struggling, no pubs to go to, no pork pie. You are in withdrawl. All you need to do is move to a dreary climate, eat pastry encrusted, greasy, over cooked food and you will be fine.


Simple your British. Ooops so was my mother in law, and Grandmother.

But seriously you do need to find some prayer partners. If you have a local church see what you can round up. I have found that being able to share my burdens, and have some of my fellow believers lift me up in my time of difficulty has been absolutely invaluable. You need some friends where you can share your heart and your struggles. As one psychiatrist said on a TV show I was watching, "I get paid over 100.00 per hour to act like a friend, most of my patients just need someone to talk to". I think we can over complicate things sometimes. Often our friends and neighbours are going through the same things, or already have overcome the issues and can help us on our lifes journey.

It seems you are a bit isolated. So get out there and meet some folks who are waiting to help you.

Good luck now is I'm rootin for ya.

I'm glad that you're going to get the book. Everything that you felt and are feeling is natural, and you'll get the insight to make different choices so you can feel differently.

I also have felt like my H is a stranger and the connection is gone when he travels. Especially when I couldn't reach him. It felt like it hurt too much to keep trying to connect. I read that there was nothing wrong with me for feeling like this, that many folks felt this way, and that there are solutions. That there are ways to keep trying to connect that made me feel happy for trying instead of rejected.

One of the example couples in SAA decided that the travel was part of what made the affair possible, and cut it out altogether. You sound like you've been in withdrawal for a long time, not negotiating for what you want because you believed that it wasn't to be found. Now I think you've seen that happiness is totally within reach for you and your H. What do you think?

bcboy!! Okay, I have to admit it, you got me laughing. Yes, I'm a Brit born and raised, however, my family's roots are not British and there is nothing stiff upper lipped about them.

I was thinking how it would be good to have a support group. MB is my only support group right now. My H also said that we needed to start to make some family friends as opposed to just our own individual friends. Since my A, we haven't been able to entertain as a family. I will investigate the church route...... gulp!

I appreciate your support. Hope you are doing good too.

Thanks EO

Yes I see something but still have a hard time believing it (as you can read). It is encouraging when you all say that it is within my reach. I have been given hope again when really by the time I got here, I felt my marriage needed to come to an end.

I know going away on business has been difficult for my H as he feels disconnected from me. Over the last year, he has become secure again, for the most part, when he leaves me because I have shown that I can be trusted. He generally doesn't enjoy being away on business and avoids it where he can. He likes to be at home with us. The work is now learning to love and connect to him when he's here and, to begin to have that same connection when he is away - I have quite some way to go.

Anyway - since he's been back, we've had a 'spat', grocery shopped and taken children to various activities toady. In the middle of the night in bed he woke me by hugging me tightly. I returned it and thought "I have to do it now?" but he said "I don't want you to do it (SF) if you don't 'feel' it for me - I want it to be real for you". We fell asleep immediately after this. However, I'm thinking - I haven't said anything about faking it till I make it. Does he sense this? Or was that his way of actually asking for SF? Seems I have to get back into action?!

Nowis,

I was actually laughing at I was interrupted by a phone call and grabbed the wrong quote. Does this make more sense? I hope so.

I'll offer you a brief description of a good marriage. I need to leave in a moment. I think others can add their points as can you. A happy marriage has:

1. Trust.

2. Humor

3. Conversation

4. Sex

5. Care and giving

6. Common life goals

7. An appreciation for the others strengths and recognition weaknesses that our spouses must overcome to be good spouses.

8. If the other points are present, then LOVE as in the verb love becomes entrenched in the marriage.

9. Finally a good marriage offers safety.

If you read all of Harleys' articles: his 4 rules for a good marriage, his policies, his ideas about the love bank, his ideas about love busters, you will see most of what I listed in them.

You can do this Nowis, you really can. You can be happy, it is going to take some time. I had not appreciated that you moved from the UK to here. I am sure that is quite an adjustment. You two really do need some married friends to talk with , enjoy things with, and just share with.

I must go, time is running out.

God Bless,

JL

Yes, JL, makes much more sense.

So my initial reaction when I look at the 9 points that you offer was 'I think we have those already'. On taking my time and thinking through them I know I need to work on care and giving. Giving and not withholding - just giving to make him happy without my expectations in there.

Love is a verb. Not just the idea that it is oooey gooey but it is an action/doing thing.

Strengths and weaknesses. We have them - so be patient and be kind.

Easy list but in practice........

I'm very grateful for the time you take to respond - means a lot.

So, am back on track! After my few days wobble and H's return - physical intimacy is back. He is smiling again, a lot, and continuously telling me how much he loves me and why. The key thing here is that I am able to hear it differently than I ever heard it before. I also don't think it's going to be too long (well, I don't know really - just hope) before I can fully say it all back too. I hear it in love making when he says he just wants to make me happy. He's happy if I'm happy. That used to bug me but now I understand it is about giving to the other person to show them love. I am learning to do that, as you know.

There is some buried unease and habitual reluctance but I'm just taking it one step at a time. Hoping to check out a couples group this Wednesday.

What would I do without you all - thanks.

Nowis,

You said something and to my untrained "junior psych" mind, it stuck. You said
Why are you reluctant? Are you afraid of commitment? A little late don't you think? Are you afraid of intimacy and that he might find out horrible things about you? I'd say the horses are out of the barn, you had an affair, you have told him you don't have feelings for him, you had discussed divorce (right?). He has seen some bad, but he still see a lot that is good. I don't know why, you don't know why, but he does. And really that is all that counts.

Ok, I am going to do this thing again. Remember my story about my aunts? Ok, let's try this.

If he is happy, he wants you to be happy.
If he can give you happiness it makes him happy.
If you are happy, you will want to see him happy.
For him to be happy, you need to receive happiness from him.

Got that? Notice that YOUR happiness is important in this whole thing. Eventually, you will notice that HIS happiness is important to you as well. But, perhaps the GIFT you need to give him is slightly different. Perhaps your gift might be confidence. In that he will eventually have confidence that you are staying with him because you want to and it meets your needs for a good life. He needs you to need him for something. You don't know it yet and hide from it, but you just might be married to one of the few men that can offer you something you really need...happiness and love while expecting less from you than other men do.

Nowis, this is very nonlinear stuff, but good intentions often begat good responses.

God Bless,

JL

To Now In The Moment, I with Stella Cat on this one she may have said it harsh but really you are torturing your husband. You mentioned your husband is a good man and you have three beautiful children, you want to destroy that for just a hot romp in the bedroom with a hot guy? I will tell you something you have it good and you may not no that till you lose it. I suggest you learn to have wild sex with your husband, fake it if you have to or leave the poor guy it sounds like he puts up with a lot of your me, me, me selfishness. Good luck |I pray you change your ways for the sake of your family and you come to your senses and learn to love and give respect to a man that is putting up with you.